The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  2. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    NPSL Pro is kaput. It was a good idea. The idea was to incubate clubs that were ready to go pro. It couldn't get sanctioned. The end.

    It also didn't have anything to do with NPSL.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they would like see pro/rel in the USA? What does that have to do with it?
     
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, you couldn't exactly expect USL to accept clubs that are in markets that are already IN the league (you can do that in MLS in a really large market, though the efficacy of RBNY and NYCFC can be debated), could you?

    True or false, every single one of those markets was wide open in USL as recently as a few years ago?

    If you're late to the party, please don't expect others to hold the door open for you indefinitely.

    "But, wait, we want to go pro now! I didn't think it was a viable thing before!"

    Well, someone else did, amigo. Sorry. Absolutely nothing is stopping you from ( a ) investing somewhere else or ( b ) gathering like-minded individuals and starting your own league.

    I love the idea, though, that the clubs you reference are being held back from being pro, except they're all pro, but that's only because someone did something that made it possible, which...yeah. That's the point. It's possible. There have been professional options in this country for years, limited only by the years after the NASL shot half its own foot off.

    "Oh, but you have to pay to get in!"

    No shit. This costs money. Grass Roots are over there in the NPSL with the other cheap people.
     
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  4. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I'm not arguing with you, but "starting your own league" increases the burden considerably.
    Let's don't get ahead of ourselves, this league hasn't even played a game yet, much less successfully completed a season. It's not even fully sanctioned yet.
     
  5. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    This is also completely ignoring that, prior to Miami FC's surprise announcement, the grand total of people who thought this league would ever actually kick a ball in anger were the immediate friends and family of the guy who owns "Stumptown Athletic".
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it has nothing to do with NPSL then why is it on their website?

    https://www.npsl.com/members-cup/

     
  7. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Nope. Fricker, Gulati, et al, had a plan in 1988.

    https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/1988-us-soccer-plans-promotion-relegation-system-mls
     
  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even for the standard of this thread this is a dumb post.

    A. The statement was "When MLS is able to pay world class stars big money" which means that by definition that's a point when they'll be able to out bid China.
    B. "prestigious prizes", the post you quoted, but snipped, specifically stated that the last remaining hurdle at that point would be the lack of the CL, aka a "prestigious prize".

    So essentially you responded disagreeing with the poster, then explained your disagreement by posting two of the same points the poster made.
     
  9. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    So you're claiming that the USSF - the regulator of US soccer leagues - had no clue what pro/rel was? That's a pretty sad indictment of the USSF, if true.
     
  10. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Members Cup has nothing to do with NPSL Pro. It's the making lemonade out of the lemons that Founders Cup falling apart left behind.

    But what was colloquially referred to as "NPSL Pro" was going to be a completely separate league, sanctioned on their own, albeit with former NPSL clubs.
     
  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  12. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Rothenburg being he USSF president at the time... I wonder how much money he's personally made in allowing MLS to be set up as an effective cartel? My recollection is that there were a lot of people who felt there was a conflict of interest between Rothenburg's roile as president and his involvement with MLS. But it's too long ago for me to remember much detail off-hand.
     
  13. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    So they're billionaires but can't read a plan that was put forth by the previous regime they just overthrew, even when they kept the bagman around? FIFA didn't have to tell them about pro/rel, their own Federation planned for it.

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/club/un...-1990-changed-american-soccer-howler-magazine

    To me, it's always been interesting that the last guys who pulled off a "build a better mousetrap & force your way into the established pro league" with the AFL seemed to do their best to make sure the same thing wouldn't happen to them...
     
  14. Two years ago former Feyenoord player Pelle became the 7th best paid player in the world when he moved to the Chinese league. Although I love him as a player and a Feyenoord icon and he was very good, he for sure wasnot the 7th best in the world. Not even close to the top 20. So no, what you get paid tells nothing about your standing in a quality table.



    Do they have a choice to play in a league paying as much as the one they're in?
    Would either of them move to the Spanish league if Real payed them more than their current team/club?
     
  15. Nope. He was talking about CL MONEY
     
  16. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    And let's be realistic: outside of Evergrande, China's spending is similar to MLS's. A couple of big, splashy signings with the median salary being quite low.
     
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  17. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    The interesting thing to me is.....that 88 plan called for a 32 team first division and 48 team 2nd division (4 12 team divisions/leagues - regional I'd guess) before pro rel happened.

    Some heads gonna splode if MLS gets to 32 and they come up with a plan with USL to make it happen :)
     
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  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No he wasn’t. He was talking about the stars wanting access to the CL.
     
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  19. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering that the "cartel" was losing money hand over fist because soccer was not popular at the time, I doubt that he saw much money out of it. No one was getting rich off pro soccer then. Several billionaires were pouring money into a bet that soccer could become a viable pro sport at some point in the indefinite future. No one was expecting to make a profit off MLS for at least 15-20 years when the league started.
     
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  20. Yup, there it is. All about money.
     
  21. By the way.
    What's that nonsense about players playing in Europe because of P/R? Did you fantasise that? Care to provide a quote from me about that?
     
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a lot of unconscious & conscious bias in this thread.....
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been re-reading an old SI interview.

    HUNT: The single-entity structure was a big selling point for us and, frankly, everyone else who came in after the fact.

    ROTHENBERG: [Single-entity ownership] had been rattling around in my head since the 1970’s when I was a young lawyer for the NBA. I remember kicking it around with some other lawyers, saying, “Boy, it would’ve been smart if [the NBA] was originally structured as a single entity.
     
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  24. Yup. Comparing local USA sports, very profitable for sure, with a world wide watched sport is dumb. Even if mls would copy the big USA sports and call their champion World champion it wouldnot lure any player towards the USA.
    Nobody in the world cares about any of the big USA sports. The world however cares about Euro soccer and it's a fantasy to think it will come to a point that mls takes the crown from Europe.
    A club that has done nothing for decades until the arrival of the Dutch giants, Liverpool, despite that was hugely popular around the world.
    There's something like pedigree and mls clubs will always be upstarts compared to the elite clubs.
    https://www.pennlive.com/sports/2017/02/super_bowl_myth_exposed_these.html

    However, it's not just about the CL final. It's about the total viewership of all CL matches and domestic league matches. These dwarf in total everything the US has to offer because of the simple fact the number of clubs to be watched and the number of people watching those clubs outstretch everything the USA can put on the table.
    Apart from the lack of prestige of the competition mls also has to topple a big US sport to be able to pay like the top Euro clubs. That's not going to happen.
     
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A post made AFTER the post from you that I responded to where you tried to claim that players wouldn't come here because there would be no CL, which was actually written in the post you were attempting to disagree with. Just because a later post was made that let you modify your point doesn't make your original post any less ridiculous, unless you're now claiming you can see into the future.

    Put it this way, I read, in order @CrazyJ628's original post and your response, and then replied without going any further. At that time there was no discussion of CL money in either of your posts.
     

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