Are you saying that MARCA - one of the biggest if not the biggest Sport newpaper of Spain - are into Fake news now? "Cuando te enfrentas a Messi y sale en su mejor versión no puedes hacer nada. Me alegro de no estar en España para no tener que enfrentarme a él cada temporada. Marcó dos goles, yo me voy muy decepcionado"." https://www.marca.com/futbol/champions-league/2019/05/02/5ccaa711268e3e88178b4608.html However, that did not prevent Van Djik from having trouble with Messi and being overcome by the Argentine in head-to-head confrontation. Which even earned praise: Messi is the best in the world, according to the Dutchman himself. That was legit and can't be clearer. So what were you really advocating about? Well, Whoscored and Sofascored had Alisson as the MoM: https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...hampions-League-2018-2019-Tottenham-Liverpool https://www.sofascore.com/pt/liverpool-tottenham/IsU In fact, it is not even close. And more, the ones like Matip being better rated than Van Djik as well. Well, he also overperformed (the rule for him in the 18-19 season) and prevented all Tottenham chances (that combined to over 1xG). So yes, that's OK to think that Alisson was the MoM of that match imo despite all the hype envolving his teammate. Liverpool win Champions League: Alisson is your final man of the match https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48484800 https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/fi...n-hails-alisson-becker-champions-league-final So yes, different than you may think, it is not so absurd argue that Alisson was the MoM of the Champions League. Fixed. Football is not only about numbers. In fact nobody had more appearances than him on the ESM team of the month between 2004 and 2006, for example. Total of 19 selections from 27 possible plus he won everything there. Overrated or not, he was rightly considered the best player in his time and his carrer at Barcelona is a level above Cruyff's carrer at Barcelona, definitely. His best phases are there up to debate. Halo Effect. How many games against Europe's TOP15 or TOP15 NTs did he face? And in how many of these games it was in a official competition and not in a friendly one? What did Ajax won in that perior? Any Champions League? (Holland) any Euro? In those years, just look at his position in the Ballon D'Or elections to see that he wasn't considered the GoldenBoy, the future dominator of the football, the today's Mbappe. Can you show me it again? I'm not remembering this very well. Btw, If I'm not mistaken, I said that Cruyff was living of his reputation and that wasn't based on his current form, something that Vegan10 agrees or partially agrees with. I don't remember this 1977 edition talking about Zico that you quoted. And I have proven that you used an outdated information for your own propuses. (#406), so what? That was fake news as well (typical of Dutch fans). Beyond your overreaction and all your hysteria (drama show), you failed to prove your point. That Van Djik had more impact than Alisson on the Liverpool team. I, here, was closer to the central point in post #412 and proving that Alisson overperformed big time in the final stages of the Champions League. All this added to his performance and his achievements with the Brazilian team form a very difficult package to argue against. Btw, I'm resigned that Alisson most likely won't be TOP5 this season, although according to Football Whispers he's been the best goalkeeper (or at least TOP3) in Europe for a considerable time for now. Also, Alisson has now a great record against Messi are three consecutive eliminations against the Argentine (with Roma 2018, Liverpool 2019 and Brazil 2019). Talisman.
How his managed to lost all those difference (0.35+), that confortable margin in less than two months? Remembering that I didn't have access to such content and I am assuming that what you are talking was true (which I really don't know it was). . Are you sure that was true? Or is it the type of statement "Platini had a bigger Goalimpact than Zico for at least 25 points" thing.
Is this true? Cruyff in his first Barcelona league season had 16 goals+ 14 assists from 75 team goals 40% involvement Ronaldinho in 2005/06 la liga had 10 open play goals+18 assists out of 86 team goals 33% direct involvement Ronaldinho has an edge in European club competitions Cruyff has an even bigger edge in the WC74 (dinho never defended/tracked back in his life and could never simultaneously lead in dribbles,chances created and interceptions) Cruyff 74 was a complete/total footballer Ronaldinho 06 was a great wing playmaker with 0 defensive duties and overrated end product inflated by penalties Cruyff was more valuable in la liga 73/74 Cruyff 74 was verifiably the second best ever world cup performance since 1966 (records began) The highs of Cruyff at barcelona were therefore demonstrably superior to those of Ronaldinho gaucho (who played with world class teammates) barcelona was in the freaking relegation zone when Cruyff arrived He single handedly propelled his team to the title The fact was many barcelona fans disputed whether Samuel etoo was more valuable to Barcelona than Ronaldinho in la liga 05/06 https://www.xtratime.org/forum/71-fc-barcelona/178837-mvp-etoo-ronaldinho-1.html
The 'consumer masses', the internet lemmings went for Allison while the coaches, technical guys and standard bearer Gazzetta (for grades) did not. Again: rest my case... proves my point..
La Liga in the Cruyff's era was weak and was not nearly the same level as the league that Ronaldinho played in. La Liga (27 October 1973) - 1547 Pts (7º in Europe) La Liga (01 July 2003) - 1766 Pts (1º in Europe) In the 2005/2006 La Liga was still the strongest League in the World. So it is not the same thing. Ronaldinho was also the best rated player in the 05/06 League (Don Balon) and when he missed matches, Barcelona underperformed, so he was pretty much the key player of Barcelona, that won the La Liga title and also the Champions League (something that Cruyff never won while at Barcelona) being decisive against the TOP3 teams in Europe (Chelsea and Milan). So yes pretty much at club level, Ronaldinho 05/06 level and achievements are otherworldly compared to 73/74 Barcelona's Cruyff.
What has all of this to do with the 2018-19 season? You only bring this up to troll, deceive and taunt.
Kicker (https://www.kicker.de/4569968/aufstellung/tottenham-hotspur/fc-liverpool-512), Daily Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nt-Alexander-Arnold-Andy-Robertson-excel.html), among others rated Alisson higher than Van Djik. Sofascore and Whoscored gave it to Alisson. But you conveniently didn't quote that. Typical.
Why should I quote a flimsy tabloid paper when there is Gazzetta (really the standard bearer in this) and the technical committee (with, surprise, even a german as chairman). But of course, for someone like you Daily Mail is of the same pedigree. Overall the pattern is clear. The internet masses go for Allison (which then of course influences the media and the sponsors) The coaches and experts go for the other one. Quelle surprise. It is a familiar and long going pattern, also in all-time lists, and the Brazil bonus in full glory. Of course there is a false equivalence brigade standing by for the rescue. And check those WhoScored ratings over a full season....
Reminders are needed for clueless people Ronaldinho never demonstrated this level of all round influence Cruyff in his prime is a god and a irrepressible force of nature This is against real Madrid at the bernabue Orchestrating a 5-0 demolition job with a hattrick of assists and a great solo goal This was the exact same Cruyff in the world cup later that season with the same level of all round influence( over 3 chances created per match-dinho 2005 created Less chances than Frank lampard) Bottom line Cruyff was a superior athlete A superior chance creator A superior ball distributor A superior goalscorer A superior dribbler A superior defender A demonstrably superior captain/Leader All dinho had on Cruyff was flashy ball juggling skill, free kicks and penalties. It is an insult to equate any version of Ronaldinho with Johan Cruyff. Blasphemy
I can probably agree with most of what you said except maybe this part. Peak Ronaldinho had unreal athleticism. I've seen moments of Cruyff where I believe he showed superior speed, but Ronaldinho was a pretty freakish package of pace, power, agility, and balance. I think Ronaldinho was pretty unique in that he was both very strong and agile, and had very good control of his body. You see defenders just bounce off him, which makes his dribbling look more unstoppable.
I wouldn't go this far. I think the five years spells of both for Barcelona are perfectly comparable, they are not miles apart in terms of actual contribution and impact as a player (Don Balon in March 2007 thought that too). It is better to discuss this at a different place though... Both have their pros and cons; both had a good record against Real Madrid (Cruijff somewhat better, but also perhaps a weaker Madrid), both had a good continental record against top teams (Ronaldinho at his zenith against Chelsea, Milan etc. but only 2 non-penalty goals and 1 assist in the 2004-05 campaign...; Cruijff has some goals and assists against favorites as well, including end product against each of the later finalists in each season) Let's move this over here: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/best-football-players-of-all-time.2011432/page-63
No-one will look back at the 2019 CL Final and think of a Alisson as MoM, it was a terrible game and he was one of a bunch of solid players thats it, the fact that no spurs player was rated above 5.5 on BBC and Alisson was the only player over 6.5, with 6.55 showed what a shocker the game was. That game will go down in history as a extremely poor as a spectacle, neither team turned up anywhere near the potential but credit to Liverpool who did enough to win, but lets be frank were under very little pressure despite Spurs possession.
It's easy to lose sight of this The bar was extremely low (I dont recall watching a more depressing sporting "spectacle" in my life) VvD/Allison were the "least worst" players. The best of a absolutely abysmal bunch
He prevented over one expected goal, so he overperformed. What you expect more of a GK? That he leave his area dribbling 10 players and score a goal? lol His rating of 1.5 of Kicker says all. Also Van Djik and others wasn't bad either.
No it doesn't; the grade by germans for another quarter-german doesn't "say all". The man of the match designations by France Football, Gazzetta (the best of its kind) and the technical committee (with no compatriot in) itself tells the real story. Just as the fact 8 saves only add up to merely 1 expected goal... And if you are going to cite WhoScored and SofaScore ratings: go watch the average for the entire season. Daily Mail is a bad source; the internet fan vote only backs up my point and beef. Allison is one of the best keepers in the world, but I'm missing some cherry on the cake as an assist for example.
Totally agree, so much hype after two great semi final second legs plus all PL final and PL Product on show... then the worst final since probably 1991 in my view.
Bringing it back We have seen many great play makers over the last 20 or so years Rui Costa, xavi, Zidane, riquelme, Totti 2000/01,Ronaldinho etc The likelihood is none of those players accumulated so many visionary passes over a 5 year span. let alone in a single campaign Messi 18/19 outscored every pro player on planet earth With and without penalties Messi 18/19 was one of the leading dribblers in Europe for the 10th consecutive season Superlatives have been exhausted and new ones have to be invented to describe the absurdity of what this guy is doing
True dat. Post 2014 Messi has been absolutely ridiculous to watch. EPL 2018-2019 doesn't have the best comparisons, so I'll use EPL 2017-2018 instead. Messi would be competing with Salah for best scorer, Hazard for best dribbler, and KDB for best playmaker, simultaneously, and he'd have a good chance of coming out on top in all 3 categories. That level of dominance is unheard of, as far as modern football in concerned. I think Messi 2018-2019 is a continuation of that trend. It is another year where Messi continues to be one of the best, if not the best, in all 3 categories.
In fact 18/19 was one of his most influent seasons at Barcelona: https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...nt-than-ever-and-barcelona-is-more-dependent/ and he almost won a treble as well. Btw, he had a good performance against Liverpool Away too: 1:18 Great shoot on target. 1:38 Great pass to Coutinho. 3:39 Great pass to Auba. 4:16 Great pass to Suarez. 5:13 Good off-ball movement and shoot on target. He tried. If he had won the treble, this season could be considered his best club season of his carrer. Amazing how he manages to maintain his peak output - and even improving it becoming increasingly more responsible for all offensive tasks - with Barcelona and even being quite athletic as we can see in that video against Liverpool. Cristiano Ronaldo with 31 years-old was much more out of his peak (in his overall game, but also athletically) compared to the argentinian and CR7 is worldwide known for being a referencial athlete in terms his natural fitness aptitudes, but also for his commitment and discipline.
He had a decent game. Although made a few errors 1:31 Missed an open goal 1:38 Should've passed to Suarez on the right 2:41 Getting dispossessed due to unnecessary dribbling 3:28 Missed shot from outside the box which he usually converts That's not quite true. Messi had lost a substantial amount of pace even before he turned 30 https://www.101greatgoals.com/news/quickest-slowest-players-barcelona-squad-revealed/
His speed and endurance perhaps not, but his acceleration, agility and balance remains elite and he uses much more these attributes. Cristiano Ronaldo in turn lost much more acceleration, balance and agility in my opinion, of course he still can be very fast in some long distances like in that race vs Spain (2018). Btw, according Football Manager. Messi 2012 to Messi 2019 Acceleration 18 ==> 18 Agility 20 ===> 20 Balance 16 ==> 20 Jumping 5 ==> 6 Pace 16 ==> 15 Stamina 15 ==> 13 Strenght 8 ==> 9 Average: 14 ==> 14.5 Cristiano Ronaldo 2010 to Cristiano Ronaldo 2017 Acceleration 19 ==> 14 Agility 16 ==> 12 Balance 18 ==> 13 Jumping 16 ==> 16 Pace 18 ==> 18 Stamina 16 ==> 17 Strenght 15 ==> 16 Average 16.8 ==> 15.1 And more of the all mobility and acceleration that Cristiano Ronaldo has lost, I am sure he has lost strength in physical contacts as well. In no way he have today or two (or three) years ago the strength he had between 2008 and 2012.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49179446 Virgil van Dijk, Netherlands Sadio Mane, Senegal Mohamed Salah, Egypt Harry Kane, England Cristiano Ronaldo, Portugal Lionel Messi, Argentina Matthijs de Ligt, Netherlands Frenkie de Jong, Netherlands Kylian Mbappe, France Eden Hazard, Belgium How the hell Kane got in there I do not know, he was not even Tottenham's best player. Salah lucky to be in it to over say Sterling, or even Aguero for that matter, and no Bernardo Silva too.