Three of the most overrated players IMHO are David Platt from years ago ( was the most expensive player on aggregate in history for a time ) but couldn't trap a bag of sand .More recently I Just don't rate Milner or Rooney ..
You make a lot of claims and exclamation marks expressions but don't explain or elaborate anything, neither do you give a "non-outdated" example. Your last paragraph is typical: it doesn't address at all what I've just said. Well, good luck, I'll be away from this board for some while. He never has. Not with the FC Barcelona finances, not when misleading the early 90s PSV scoring record (it wasn't 'better' before Romario) and not at other times.
(c) I don't see any sign in this video of being "lazy" as per Puck's assumption. He fell back to defend and press on the opponents. I think some folks are confusion moderately slower pace of Valderrama to his counterparts as being Lazy. Valderrama and Romario, have always been accused as being "lazy". What the accusers don't know is that these guys had such a good "positioning" and "pass" ability that they didn't need to run about all the time. Hey, give me the guy that doesn't run for 89 minute but in the last two minutes pulls off a match winner play to win a league title, instead of the guy that runs and runs sweating an ocean on the pitch for 90 minutes yet still won't deliver a league title (R9?) (d) 4:41 after the foul on Valderrama the commentator said "he has a mesmeric control on the ball in those situations" referring to how Valderrama shields, and handles the ball while being heavily pressed.
Actually, I might be remembering wrong, but I believe I only use that phrase towards you. I've been not that nice to others, sure, but what you do is different from others and closer to a temper tantrum (i.e. the "I'm done with this discussion because you are not worth my time" move you always do when things aren't going your way. And no that was not a direct quote of you, but merely a paraphrase of what you do).
Are you serious??? Take a look at my original post on that specific subject. I specifically said that they scored a ton the year before he got there. That's the opposite of misleading. This is all very odd. I acknowledge the flaws in what I am saying upfront, and then you later accuse me of misleading by hiding those facts??? Come on.
Well there are tons of players who are IMO vastly overrated on A-T list because of various factors, but still great/very good all things considered. However then there's a straight up borderline 1st French Division starter like Roger Milla who somehow achieved fame hugely disproportionate to his skill level, just because of a media friendly and memorable storyline.
On the contrary, Milla was skilled I believe. But yes, not always efficient in front of the goals in club (especially at Valenciennes and Monaco after what he made a good career...with still ups and downs for the matter of scoring goals but showing some great skills in the game). I guess I won't have him in a top 50 like IFFHS did, though. That said his role of ambassador of African football and of precursor is a presentable argument imo. He opened the doors for the next generations of African footballers. His weight in football history is undeniable for me. That must counts a bit. Not to the point of making him a player he was not, but if the point would be to say he was not a good player at all, I'd disagree. And his story with the World Cup that's still something. Being imposed by the President of Cameroon and making Cameroon win games after he just entered the pitch as a sort of super-sub aged 38 if not more, yeah it's such a thing. For me Milla it's the African football that I like, with those skills...not always academic but full of inventiveness or improvisation...a bit like the Brazilians, but different. Yes different. Spectacular too. It's rare now. Since Katongo and Hervé Renard's Zambia there's no real African football anymore and it was an exception never seen since years already. English were lucky that Cameroon suffered internal conflicts, problems with primes etc. and to get those penalties when the Cameroonese failed to convert their numerous chances or the indommitable Lions would have beaten them. Maybe yes. Bring back the real African football! Frankly : Milla started to be a bit tired at this stage of the competition though. But what a player! Before being a "media friendly", he was a people who loves football friendly. Football is a game and hopefully there was players like Milla, or it would have been boring. When the footballs of the world had different identities and caracteristics, that was more fun too. That said this Cameroon, globally at this time in Africa = the "Germans". Milla was the fantaisist into it. Thnaks god or I don't know what, there has been a Roger Milla. There has been a Valderrama. Why always those two?
In terms of club career he's one of the weakest (subject discussed on this page) of the ones who occasionally make a top 100 all-time. Maybe the weakest. There are also a number of players who got high ratings by default despite clearly not meriting it (i.e. all those inflated ratings for Hierro, Iniesta, Baggio and yes also legends from further back; Careca destroying cars of journalists if he got a bad grade ). There's no way a defender conceding five goals and causing an own goal can get top marks (10/10, 1/6 by kicker etc.), or Iniesta doing nothing more than a shimmy in the center circle. Roger Milla doesn't quite fall in that type of bracket.
Rooney the finisher Rooney the creator If Rooney did nothing else noteworthy in his entire career those 2 examples alone would be enough to make him a cult hero of any club
This one is interesting. Scirea is the most prominent defender who's contemporary ratings/reputation isn't really in line with his current alltime standing. His playstyle might be the explanation, on the other hand he died tragically shortly after retirement....
I have to say if you look at the individual ratings Kicker page of Beckenbauer it does look suspicious. Yes, he might have been the best overall, but the margin seems inflated.
Clause in his contract that he gets a bonus for awards etc.? It's common nowadays with the Ballon D'Or....
I’d estimate that Glen Hoddle made about a thousand passes as good as that one , using either foot and putting incredible backspin on them when required .. and Matt Le Tiss scored goals like that throughout his career
The third category of overrated players are the ones who get talked up (generally accompanied by various political benefits) before they have played a single high level game or even a single league game. Some of those become Freddy Adu, others become Neymar (while still being overrated initially imho, in particular 2013 when he was 5th in the BdO, way off limits back then). I said before that this has never happened with Scandinavian and Benelux players... But now there is one... The only thing is he has an American passport... Before a single Eredivisie game, let alone a high level game, he has his individual profile in The Guardian, written by a British journalist (not an American). So typical. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/du...ion-with-the-dutch-nt-part-4.1974183/page-245 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/th...and-young-orange-team-thread.1943450/page-161
Can you tell what happened to Alaba? It seems he was more prominent a few years ago, being compared pretty well next to Lahm and other team mates. His standing/form seems to have regressed.
I can't tell you exactly what happened with Bayern, I think he just didn't progress much as a player since 2013/2014 or so. Too much praise too early in his career. Maybe distracted by off-field stuff and not working hard enough. For Austria Alaba has been playing as a midfielder (a controversial decision but we had Christian Fuchs as a LB until '16) under the old coach Koller and was underperforming for a long time.
DBScalcio and Guerin Sportivo rarely shows him as a top three libero of the league somehow... He was the team captain of the #1 club of course.
Thanks. Yes I know he developed an injury history after 2014. Including some long ones at the beginning. That doesn't help. https://www.transfermarkt.com/david-alaba/verletzungen/spieler/59016
Yes, this is one of the reasons. - Doesn't show up that often in European XI (both voted by journos or fans) - compared to Krol for example - All Star teams for 3 major tournaments (WC78, Euro80, WC82): Scirea is sometimes choses, sometimes not. One of the best, but not really the #1 defender ...but actually that's still really good, how many defenders can surpass that? - His domestic ratings are mostly good/very good, but never really amazing Like you've said on the flipside he was an important part for a succesfull club and a NT that won the World Cup - from a nation known for great defenders
The reality is Redondo gets seriously 'overrated' by various usual suspects in the way he gets put over his peers and contemporaries. - Don Balon only placed him twice in their ideal team. Once for Tenerife and once for Real Madrid. In many seasons he wasn't even on the bench, despite his entertaining style. - Four ESM team of the month selections. That's simply underwhelming. - Played two good tournaments. For others he was either ignored (for tactical and/or aesthetic reasons) or turned down a call-up himself. - Very, very rarely had a goal or assist (in the CL 0 goals and 2 assists in his entire career..). If he had a goal or assist, they came against lower sides (Manchester and Depor the only exception). Yet at the same time, he needed another defensive midfielder besides him. He couldn't anchor a midfield by himself. He needed scrappers and/or box-to-box workers besides him. Which he always had at Tenerife, Real Madrid and later in his cameos for Milan. So, to put it overly harsh, here was a midfielder who couldn't attack and who couldn't defend, and had his positional defects. ------------------------------------- Now the plus side: - The quality on and with the ball is undeniable. A few team-mates appreciated him: Seedorf said it was easier to play with him than with Pirlo. There's a handful of team mates who clearly liked him. - Won three times the Champions League, has strangely more Champions League titles than league titles (finished three times outside the top three in six Real Madrid seasons). However, his contribution to 2002-03 was limited and 1997-98 less outstanding (Gazzetta grades of final) as 1999-00. There is imho a marked difference between what he did in the 1999-00 CL campaign (in particular the final vs Valencia and both quarter final matches against Manchester United) and 1997-98 when he was outperformed by midfield colleagues. - Real Madrid did significantly better with him in the team than without him. That's a big plus, though this also applies to some of his team mates (arguably with even a greater effect).
Forgot to include: his highest ever (and only) inclusion in the Ballon d'Or was 18th (+ a nomination in 1995). Again pretty underwhelming for a Real Madrid midfielder and doesn't stand out next to contemporary midfielders. For world player of the year never in the top 20, and that as an Argentine for Real Madrid/Milan... Very good player (see above), but the way he's elevated above his peers is contentious... This is possible since some have noticed a decrease in tactical discipline and defensive prowess. https://www.reddit.com/r/fcbayern/comments/6qxtva/what_has_happened_to_david_alaba/ However, Kimmich on the other side (and to an extent Lahm in his final two seasons) isn't totally flawless there either (gets statistically 'dribbled past' a lot too). Might be a question of decline in coaching quality and organization as well... Both full-backs can get caught out of position now. Yeah, Guardiola said he "can play everywhere" while Van Gaal (who gave him his debut) famously said "he is a left-back, even if he doesn't know it himself". He also said: "Alaba is not just good, he is very good. How many full-backs can take a free kick as well as he does?" "Xavi, Iniesta, [Thiago] Motta [at Barça], Müller or [David] Alaba [of Bayern] fitted in the profile of the position. For example, I talked with Alaba about the left full-back position. He didn't want to play there. He was educated as a midfielder but I had a vacant position for him because I had injuries and thought he could do the job. After a lot of talking, in the end, he played there because he wanted to help the team. Where is he playing now? Left full-back." https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/12/louis-van-gaal-philosophy-manchester-united Maybe it was/is wrong to play him as a full-back but at least he was given a chance and even that is sometimes a rarity at big clubs...
To be fair, this is the common opnion (on the internet) Blame his assist vs United. Agreed with your pros/cons - the thing is as usual people won't go into such detailed analysis of his CL performances - so this is what really sticks. Honestly I would have no idea either how much Redondo contributed EXACTLY in 97/98 and 99/00 (despite following the games at the time) if I didn't look it up recently out of interest. Well, except that he was CL player of the year in 2000 and his game at Old Trafford. Like you've said Redondo is really good with the ball for a DM (youtube highlights do him a favor) and won a lot playing for the biggest club, which explains his popularity.