Colombia Copa America 2019 (Brazil)

Discussion in 'Colombian National Team' started by kromekote, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Painful loss to Chile, although I must say that I took the England match much harder. Here's my summary of our Copa America:

    Optimistic side:
    • It was a good tournament of Colombia. Leaving the final result a side since we lost in a PK, we managed to grab 10 out of 12 PTS without concede a single goal.

    • Impressed by Carlos Queiroz. I was afraid when he was appointed but now I'm more relaxed. I like the 4-3-3 system, offensive. We played very well in most of our games (Unfortunatelly except Chile) when we attack, create chances, score and miss a lot. I like the high pressure of the strikers, I like the solid defense in the back. I think we played better than Pekerman's last year. we have a good future with him.

    • Duvan Zapata and Edwin Cardona. In my opinion both of them had to play much more that the actually did. But I hope they'll get their chances in the near future, because we cannot pass on them. I like that Queiroz gave another chance to Cardona, who proved that he can help us a lot. And Duvan brought his form from Italy and was very good when he played.

    • I like that Queiroz gave chances to Medina, to Tesillo, to Luis Diaz. All three of them were solid. Medina and Tesillo needs to improve their attacking ability because as full backs it really hurt us, but they can be a good option. Also gave the opportunity to Lucumi and Roger, both did a good job, mostly Roger of course and I was the one who didn't like his invitation.
    Pessimist side

    • Late subs. We saw it vs. Qatar and especially against Chile. You cannot expect Zapata to save you in 13 minutes. Yes he scored twive on the 86th minute but you understood my point. Same with Cardona. or Lucho Diaz. They all came in too late, I think he could easily should've done at least one change at half time or at least until 60th minute. And if you brought Zapata in at the 77 when we are close to penalties, why did you take out your best PK taker?

    • Mental barrier. Once again we were marked as favorite to reach far in a tournament and were eliminated too soon. in 2014 and 2015 we basically did our job, but in the last three tournaments we could and should reach at least one or two steps forward. And on Friday it was horrible because Chile clearly aren't better than us, but they wanted much more. And I don;t understand wht we don't have that hunger when we play in money time. In the past our battier was the group stage, now it's the first KO stage.

    • Duvan or Falcao? THE question. except the Qatar game, Falcao started in all games. I can totally understand why Queiroz give him the credit, but in my opinion Duvan had to be a starter. Falcao should be called ofcourse, but Duvan had to start. You cannot give up on a 20+ Serie A goals striker. Unfortunately, many times we looked like a team with 10 players. Duvan must be a starter from now on, as long as he keeps his form. Physically he can handle much better with the defenders, unlike Falca.

    • Full- backs. One of our main advantage in Pekerman's era were Zuñiga and Armero, full backs who supported the attack. In his second campaign, we had Arias who is decent and we have a problem in left position. I actually thought that Tesillo did very well and so is Medina, but both of them can't contribute too much offensively. We saw it especially against Chile. They barely supported the attack and our offensive game looked stuck without too much efforts from the flanks. Neither of them can also cross balls in a good way. I believe that Arias will return to this position, as for the left side it'll be interesting to see. Maybe Borja?

    • Penalties. Another mental barrier for us. In the last four rounds, we lost three. Ospina, a very good goalkeeper, is not a PK specialist unfortunately. Very bad % in his career. On the other hand, you cannot replace him just before the PK because you cannot disrespect him like this. It's very cruel to lose like this but unfortunately we are the only one to blame.
    In general I'm very optimistic. we have a talented team, we have a future, the question is when are we going to fulfill this talent 100%. Luckily this generation has a great opportunity to do it in Colombia 2020 because it it won't happen there, I don't think it'll happen any time soon. And in March we'll start our way to Qatar 2022.

    VAMOS COLOMBIA! (Sorry for the long post).
     
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  2. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Well written. I am more critical of Medina than you are - which is fine. I felt he was fine in the Argentina game and extremely timid against Qatar (constant backpassing) and against Chile I felt his performance forced cuadrado to play as a second RB rather than a midfielder.

    I really really wanted Medina to prove he can be a starter at any time this cycle but I think he’s only capable of starting against much weaker teams. If figured with how both arias and Medina split time evenly in the group stage, CQ would have gone with the veteran Arias. Must have been fitness related??

    I don’t think it’s fair to be critical of Ospina for penalties. It’s a crapshoot, no different than a basketball game going to a free throw or 3 point contest to determine a winner.

    Late subs - considering how good CQ was with subs in group stage I joked to myself that CQ probably forgot there was no Extra Time and was doing late subs because he thought there were two 15 minute halves to play as well.

    Let me ask you since no one else has answered my question - do you rate this CA better or worse than our 3rd place finish in 2016?

    I personally am more content with how we played this Copa vs 2016. And despite the result against Chile, we didn’t let them pull our pants down like they did in 2016.
     
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  3. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I cannot believe to this current day in our modern era people are still talking about not "passing" on Cardona. Cardona has been in every single NT around. he also fails to make it anywhere because he is an inconsistent erratic player. One good game, one bad game and then a red card. That is so common among Cardona but now he is our savior..

    Why do Colombian fans keep giving these mediocre players chance and chance again? like asking if Duvan or Falcao. Bro...did you watch the Copa? who asks such a thing. OF COURSE DUVAN. FAlcao should of been a sub many games ago. The only thing Falcao provides now days are interviews and seeking fouls. thats it. We need to be more strict in what we want because we give these Yerrys to be ass clowns at OUR expense.

    its hard for our wings to attack when Chiles tactics are based on attacking the wings. I feel like a lot of Medinas critiques are unfair. I feel like Cuadrado who has had a horrendous 3 or 4 years of game play and is still an indisputed starter is getting a free pass. His absolute mess made Medina be outnumbered by chilean attackers time and time again.

    I feel like a lot of people are to blame here. CQ made some very basic subs, position for postion, which worked again Qatar bc we won. but this time his subs were late and did not change anything in the game.

    Matheus Uribe, who starting to prove to be a pecho frio failure with the NT ,did not appear during the game and Cuadrado was all over the place in not a good way gave their wingers chance after chance. What is concerning is the lack of action by the coach and when it happened it was late and WRONG. We were attacked on those flanks the whole game. Never noticed. Cuadrado still on the field more concerned with his next dance. truly sad and pathetic
     
  4. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    What I worry about is we are gonna start to have a campaign against CQ that will bring JC Osorio. a mediocre futbol pimp mercenary. I mean. this is Colombia after all. so would not be even remotely surprised
     
  5. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    It's not that I don't agree with you regarding Medina, but considering it's not his natural spot, I liked his performances, at least defensively. I agree that he must improve offensively. This way or another, He shouldn't be our starter anyway but can be a backup.

    as for Ospina, I do think that there are specialist for PK. Of course not all the time, but it's no coincidence. You have GK like Armani or Higuita who were specialist. Ospina isn't. To his defense, the Chileans kicked perfectly but He barely guessed right the side of the taker.

    I personally agree with you. This performance was way better than the 2016. We made a better group stage; we've won one of SA giant; And even though Chile played better, they had to fight, unlike the semi final against them. But I'm still disappointing, it was very doable.
     
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  6. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    I think Medina did himself pretty well overall this tournament, he showed he can be our back up right back. I thought he did a decent job against Alexis for the most part that game, but Medina isn't or never will be a super star but he's shown he's adequate when we need him. That said Arias should 100% be the default starter, never really given any reason for him not to be.
     
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  7. lvbeto

    lvbeto Member

    Jul 27, 2007
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I'm surprised no one has written this but deep down what hurt the most was losing to a Colombian coach. One who knows us too well (obviously). One who we said wasn't good enough for us.

    It was one game, maybe a little early to panic but things only change for a little then back to more of the same.
     
  8. crzdcolombian

    crzdcolombian Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    Avon,CT
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    The 3rd place in 2016 was a
    Misleading result as we played like shit and got lucky. US and Paraguay we had 15 good minutes then prayed the rest of the game to not lose a huge lead

    This cup we didn’t beat anyone other then finally being able to put down a shit Argentina that we always give life too.....

    So neither was that great but I’d go with this performance as many have said we didn’t get scored on. Only time a team scored on us was Korea because Arbolera was in awful form
     
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  9. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Nah. Rueda is probably the only Colombian coach most people here would get behind.

    I’m honestly not too worried about the qualifiers, I think we have a very decent chance to qualify, given our depth and our ability to get points against most rivals.

    By my math we should get 4 to 6 points from each Bolivia, Ecuador and Paraguay (14), at least 3 from each Peru, Venezuela and Uruguay (10) and 4 to 6 more from the matches against Argentina, Brazil and Chile, for a total of 27-30 points.
     
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  10. lvbeto

    lvbeto Member

    Jul 27, 2007
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    If anything helps our cause is the age of the superstars on a lot of teams. Cavani, Suarez, Messi, Guerrero, Vidal, Godin are all 32 or over currently. Brazil will always have top quality teams available. Argentina should figure this out soon enough, right? These players we know won't be the same toward the end of qualifying, well not all of them.

    There's a new generation coming in South America. Colombia seems to have transitioned well with a few younger guys and a solid veteran core. Now its time to put it together and get the job done.

    As its always the case, we are deep in certain positions but we have a few weaknesses too, unfortunately. Qualifying start this year or next?
     
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  11. pibe10

    pibe10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Petach Tikva, Israel
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I don't agree with you regarding Cardona. We don't have Argentina, Brazi or Uruguay's pool. We don't have too many players like Cardona's abilities. I didn't say he was our savior, I didn't say that with him at the beginning everything would be perfect. But you also can't deny his talent and the fact that we don't have too many players that can help James in the middle of the field. Uribe was horrible, Cuadrado was rasty. James couldn't handle alone just like Quintero couldn't by himself vs. England. And I didn't say to bring Cardona si o si. But if he is one of the best players in Mexico + don't have disciplinary issues, I don't see a reason why not to bring him. Was he the only inconsistent Colombian player? Did James was wonderful in every game? Only Barrios in my opinion had the perfect Copa America. Cardona is not our savior but you can't also drop the who bag on him, especially when he didn't play much.

    As for Duvan, I'm afraid you misunderstood. When did I write that I prefer Falcao?! I specifically said that DUVAN was the one who should start. I said that I can understand CQ's reasons why not to bench Falcao but if I was the coach I was clearly start with Duvan. However, Falcao still has a place on the squad.

    Same as the wingers. I don't think the problem was that Chileans attacking the wings, but that we played with two unnatural full back that did a decent job against Argentina but not good enough. The don't have the attacking abilities to play in this positions. I don't remember one good crossing in this Copa by either Medina or Tesillo. Both of them aren't fast enough as well. We will keep looking for players in these positions because we have only Arias, Fabra and Borja. All of them are average+. And it'll be very hard to play without support full backs. To be honest, I'm not sure that we shouldn't try once again Cuadrado in the same spot where he used to play in DIM. Anpther option is to see how Daniel Muñoz will do in Nacional, or even to try Uribe there, just like he played in Nacional under Rueda and was good.
     
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  12. sidspaceman

    sidspaceman Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 20, 2002
    AMÉRICA DE CALI
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  13. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Que peligro!!!
     
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  14. J-Mezzy

    J-Mezzy Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Orlando
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Chile did great in Copa. But I dont think they will hold up well for 2022. They are indeed aging
     
  15. praxis.en

    praxis.en Member

    May 13, 2015
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    i dont think anyone denies cardonas skills. nor the colombian team for that matter. its what's in their head and their attitude that makes cardona a failure.
    inconsistent, erratic, lack of professionalism. This player missed the WC because he did some ignorant racist shit. and it hasnt been the second third or fourth time he has disciplinary issues. Yet we are gonna bring him back because he is playing okay in the MX league? no thanks. i pass. we need to move on. we really do.
     
  16. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    In the only match that he started in the cup was one of the best players.
     
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  17. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    In South America right now most of the top tier teams are headed off a cliff over the next 4 years and we are peaking. Brazil and ourselves are the two teams that have a lot of players reaching their prime with a good mix of young up and comers, Chile, Uruguay and Argentina have their main super stars on the wrong side of 30. We really should be in the mix for next years Copa and hopefully we finish top 2 in qualifying, there is no reason why we shouldn't if we get it right.
     
  18. CalamityX18

    CalamityX18 Member

    Real Madrid
    Colombia
    Jun 19, 2018
    I suffered with two PKs.... both outcomes against me....

    what.the.hell....

    Ugh Uruguay, played(acted like they did) for that ********ing PK the last 10 mins or so...

    One thing el maestro needs to change is to get more offensive... he ********ing still lives under a rock in the 80s... god!
     
  19. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali
    will be interesting if they keep VAR for qualifiers. That will change A LOT of things. Primarily, teams like Brazil and Arg have benefitted more than most from seriously dubious calls, including faking injuries, etc. I think we can feel good about the road to the WC but ultimately we have to win silverware to be taken seriously.
     
  20. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    #820 villus, Jul 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
    Yeah that could help us, I'd hope our players also keep their discipline, you can't get away with much with VAR and from time to time a few guys lose their heads so hopefully cool heads prevail.
     
  21. Tio Nicci

    Tio Nicci Member+

    Nov 13, 2008
    Houston, Texas
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Para mi,

    Boliva is perhaps the only team that we can possibly be confident in getting 4-6 points

    Paraguay, Uruguay tactical styles is always challenging from 0-4 points with them

    Peru, Chile, Ecuador are aging teams, however I can never discount them in points Peru and Chile are tough on the road, and who knows Ecuador might bring in some of their U20 guys in the mix(who made it to a world cup final) 1-4 points

    Venezuela-seem to always find a way to be colombia's kryptonite 2-6 points

    Brazil and Argentina you can never know if they will play an amazing world cup match or a struggling out of form team. 1-3 points

    Again, this will ultimately result on how we perform away.
     
  22. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Disagree.

    You have good players in Europe and the euro centrism of the world is enough for you to be taken seriously.

    I'll give you an example, let's say Peru win the Copa America somehow. It won't change our image much because we went out in the first round of the WC and we don't have top players in Europe. I know Chile did well and they could beat us tonight possibly, but people still think it's a fluke that we qualified over the team that has Sanchez and Vidal.

    If we win the Copa America, people will respect us for a day and then begin to find excuses as to how we're not very good just because nobody recognizes our players.

    I've seen people over respect Colombia sometimes just because of the players they have in Europe. It's unfortunate but that's how football fans are these days.
     
  23. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Are you saying it’s a marketing thing?
     
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  24. jay luis

    jay luis Member+

    Sep 14, 2013
    Corona, Nyc
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    “bRo CoLOmBiANz aRe JUzt mArKeRtInG”
     
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  25. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Moderator
    Staff Member

    Deportivo Independiente Miraflores
    Peru
    Feb 4, 2015
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    No. I think Colombia is a very good team, but all I'm saying is that silverware isn't a necessity to gain respect from others.
     

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