PBP: O41.Spain - USA

Discussion in 'Women's World Cup' started by Gilmoy, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    You mean the rules? Don't ask me to explain soccer's often weird rules--such as the offside rule that has been a complete disaster in this tournament. We've seen several goals taken away by player's supposedly being a hair offside--and literally we are talking a toe, foot, kneecap. Meanwhile, we saw two clear offside goals allowed because it was ruled that the offside player didn't "affect" or "interfere" with the defender or play--and yet many soccer pundits note, as I would, that if you are offside and drawing defenders to you, you are quite obviously interfering with or affecting the play. Whatevs....

    My last word on the PK today: It was //incidental contact//. The Spanish player was playing the ball and as she did so, Lavelle came flying by. I don't believe PKs should be awarded and games decided by incidental contact--especially minor incidental contact like that, if there was even contact at all. I feel like this WC has marred by a ton of ticky-tacky decisions.
     
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  2. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a silly comment.
     
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  3. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    That was pre-VAR. With VAR, if there is contact which results in a foul, it is going to be called even if it appears “soft”..
     
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  4. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    It doesn’t take someone else winning to see the obvious. England and France have taken massive leaps forward. The Dutch too. Italy and Spain are on the same path. The difference between Spain (13th or so in the world) and the best team today is about the same as the best and maybe the 7th or 8th best team in the world in the 99 or 03 cycles.
     
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  5. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Then lobby for a change in the offside rule. It’s been changed at least two dozen times. I’d like to see offside as a compete separation from the second to last defender. Easier to call and more scoring.

    But is will never happen. If you don’t like the rules we are playing under now, watch another sport until they change.
     
  6. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Nothing that you write in your last paragraph had anything to do with the play in question. The ball was in the box, it bounced, of course a Spanish player had to kick it. Balls in the box have to be cleared, which requires /kicking/ it--and when 12 others players are in the vicinity, yes, sometimes a boot will make accidental contact with a foot. She was playing the ball. Key point: Lavelle didn't have the ball. Incidental contact, which should not be a match-deciding foul. I'm boring everyone, sorry--no more from me on this.
     
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  7. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    That just means the euro teams are more competitive with each other. It doesn’t mean they have made the leap to being superior.
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #258 Cliveworshipper, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    Sometimes a hand makes accidental contact with the ball. That no longer matters either. What matters is that you be able to control your body and your position to not trigger an infraction.

    You kick somebody or have your hand extended with contact, both are fouls.

    Don’t kick players. Don’t have your hand away from the body.

    Easy. iFAB took any mention of intent out of the Laws for a reason. Refs no longer are expected to be psychics concerning intent.
     
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  9. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    The numbers say otherwise. 538’s SPI has proved to be a better predictor of results compared to FIFA rankings. Notice the gap closure between the US and the ten best outside of the us over time here:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw3hnznmUB-XU-0DQUu9Ozsy&ust=1561489652120466
     
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  10. ntxsage

    ntxsage Member

    Apr 25, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The point is there is always contact on just about every play. It's referee judgement and experience that allows them to keep control of a game without calling a foul for every contact between players. The ref made the right decision (imo) in not letting VAR overrule her call once she had made it, but a PK should never have been awarded in the first place. Lavelle sold it, and she bought the act.
     
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  11. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    The ref did keep control of the game. She correctly called a foul in the box on a team that was persistent in fouling.

    And since it was in the box, the PK was the only correct call.
     
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    I disagree.
    When you carelessly kick at a ball with your studs up in the PA and you make contact be cause you were late, in the VAR era, you are going to get called most of the time.

    I get what you’re saying, but VAR has changed everything.

    If there is clear contact, VAR is going to find it. Referees know this and don’t want to be made to look stupid by VAR so they are going to call the careless contact.
     
  13. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    The rankings didn’t start until 2003, so you can’t say anything about what they were in 1999. And ranking always close after qualifications and diverge after a cup.

    The fifa World ranking isn’t a predictor of matches, it is a log of results, and the results are that only the USA and Germany have ever claimed top spot. Only rarely and very briefly has another team had results that knocked one of this teams out of second. That has never happened to the USA.

    The talk of parity always talks of the next great team. When the fifa ranking shows another team at the top you will know it happened.
     
  14. ntxsage

    ntxsage Member

    Apr 25, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    It's only easy when you like the result of the call. Vast majority of corners and long free kicks from have players pushing and tugging in the box. It has to be egregious for any decent ref to award a PK on the defending team in that situation. The standard for a foul is different based on the impact of the decision and the game situation. It just is. How many times do we see a ref chirp on calls he/she wouldnt otherwise make if it starts to get chippy? Referees being humans and imperfect is part of the game. Fouls are judgement calls and it's definitely NOT easy.

    The issue for me is the amount of simulation creeping into the womens game. There are no Pepes and Neymars yet...but sure feels like we're headed that direction.
     
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  15. Juanele

    Juanele Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    Colorado, US
    oh well, at least we were competitive.
     
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  16. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    In my opinion, a PK should not be granted if the fouled player is not in a position to shoot. Change the rules. The penalty is far worse than the crime.
    Does VAR stand for "Very Awful Results."
     
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  17. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    You mean like Rapino getting choked in the box? Yeah I hated that non call too.

    And preaching about not calling holds in the box has been one of my pet peeves since at least when Koulibabbi made up a foul against the USA that nobody to this day can see, and ignored 5 US players being held.

    I was sort of hoping VAR might end that silliness, but we have a way to go.
     
  18. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    538 retroactively assessed spi using actual match data going back to the mid 90s from every women’s international match played. SPI is informed by match results (margins, match type and home/away/neutral). In other words the real world and how competitive the matches are between two teams.

    The extent to which prior results reflect future match predictions vary, but regardless, the actual data (as opposed to your anecdotal observations) demonstrate that the gap between the US and the rest of tier I and II has closed considerably.

    You’re literally arguing against math and vetted statistical analysis here.
     
  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Oh, the way the Laws are favoring attackers, I fully expect a change like that. It should be accompanied by making attackers wear tutus so defenders know who not to foul.
     
  20. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Again the fifa ranking track results. The results are no other teams have ever claimed top spot but two.

    When the results are that another team has consistently better results, they will show in the fifa ranking. The rest is speculation.

    And it will take more than one cup to prove otherwise. Winning is hard. The USA and Germany don’t win every cup. It’s harder for most of the rest of the world.
     
  21. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    The bigger issue is that the USA was mediocre in the final third against a well organized Spanish defense, just like they were against Sweden. They are going to have to be much better to beat the likes of France/England/Germany, and they aren't going to be able to get away with giving the opposing team a "free" goal through horrible distribution from their keeper.

    Right now, this does not look anything close to a World Cup winning team.
     
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  22. ntxsage

    ntxsage Member

    Apr 25, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Your judgement deems it was careless. Lavelle leapt into the air with a flying knee, which is the only reason the Spanish defender made any contact at all. If Lavelle had been on the ground, there would not have been contact. The contact was so slight you needed a replay in slo mo to even determine it. Neither player was late. You just dont decide the winner of a knock out match on that slight of a contact in the box.
    Again I pose the question, where are we headed with the women's game? The women willing to play more old school rules is one reason I love watching them. I get why Lavelle acted it out. She won the game for her team...but I have more respect for how Dunn played through an obvious yank backwards from her defender when she had a chance to cross in the box...She could've easily flopped and forced the ref to make a decision. She didnt.
     
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  23. Chastaen

    Chastaen Member+

    Alavés
    Jul 9, 2004
    Winnipeg
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The offside rule is written to take into account if a play is impacted by the offside player. It makes no sense to pick and choose what parts of rules should be followed on a case by case basis.

    It is total lunacy to insist rules should be ignored because we dont like the way it impacted this one play. People use words like intent, barely, hardly, feel, believe, and dont like..to try and dismiss carefully worded rules.

    That is why video games make single player games...because the rest of the world cant be run by the whim of each and every person.
     
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  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If my team commits any foul inside the box it is cheap and should not be called, if the other team just slightly brushes the players in my team, then it is a PK.

    How about that?
     
  25. Gilmoy

    Gilmoy Member+

    Jun 14, 2005
    Pullman, Washington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #275 Gilmoy, Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019

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