Post-match: USA vs. Guyana, June 18, 2019 - Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    *Shrug*

    You are the one trying to set this up as something it isn't. Nobody is saying this is a great victory. Ranks are meaningless below rank 80 or so simply because those countries barely play. You probably know this but I doubt you care.

    No matter how much you want it in no way does the result suck. That's all.
     
  2. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :coffee:
     
  3. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    @IndividualEleven , why is it easier to call in a MLS player? They dont have to dial the country code first? The flight is shorter? Any other reason?

    I guess Mihailovic is a good choice if trying find a quick flight is the criteria. Chicago to Mineapolis is quicker flight and with more options than Atlanta.

    I'd think it would make more sense to call a euro player who is out of season than have Mihailovic or Nagbe to miss a few weeks games to ride the bench. I would think it would just be easiest to call the best players, but not the current team MO.
     
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  4. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Well there were also all the hero long balls that had less than half the success rate of Michael's - for all the complaints we hear about MB's turnovers.

    And the disgraceful fouls/behavior that were partly the reason Germany didn't want him even when he was fit. Oh wait, that's just "bite." My bad. He did have a knack for somehow eluding well-deserved cards, I'll give him that.

    He wasn't so bad if/when he'd just play defensive midfield, but his passing was usually suspect and besides, that's not what he was about to do while slumming it for the USA. Positional/role responsibility was for peons who hadn't played Champions League. Seems almost like we've tried this "twin 8/10s" thing before the way Jurgen played him and Bradley - thought that was with a couple more midfield scrappers and we still needed Beckerman to anchor the mid and connect some passes.

    He was effective in a couple games at WC 2014, scored an awesome goal, but was crazy overrated and his carte blanche signaled much that was wrong with our program under Klinsi.
     
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  5. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    The truth, and reality, disagrees with you.

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog/name/93/post/1863295/headline

    And his decision to play in the occasional U.S. friendly, but not in official matches that could have permanently cap-tied him, led to questions about how committed he was to the U.S. cause and if his heart really belonged to his native Germany. Even after appearing in a World Cup qualifier against Honduras in February of 2013, Chandler didn't play again for the remainder of qualifying. Injuries played a part, but it didn't lessen the skepticism surrounding him.

    ----

    Chandler declined the call-up for the Gold Cup, the first of several refusals to link up up with U.S. side. Even after Jurgen Klinsmann replaced Bradley as U.S. manager later that year, Chandler continued to keep the U.S. at arm's length, and rumors that Germany was interested in bringing its native son into the national team fold began to emerge. At the time, Germany was short of options at right back, and the word on the street - later denied by the DFB, the German football federation - was that they were looking at Chandler as a potential solution.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/...dler-ready-to-commit-to-us-national-team.html

    But since then, Chandler had become a source of frustration for coaches and fans by repeatedly declining to play for the American team in important competitions.

    It began when he turned down the chance to play for the United States in the 2011 Gold Cup, citing fatigue after his first Bundesliga season. In 2012, after Jurgen Klinsmann replaced Bradley as the United States coach, Chandler did not take part in the initial stage of World Cup qualifying. Since the Gold Cup and the qualifiers were official competitions, Chandler’s decision to opt out of both after playing in friendlies fueled speculation that he was keeping his options open to play for Germany.
     
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  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I'm old enough to have learned one thing: people lie through their nose, most of the time. Whether sportsmen or the guy selling you a computer, they all lie. So that a player says "I want so so so much to play for your team" means nothing.

    Personally, I feel whether Fabio was honest or not is irrelevant. Guy has been in his last legs for a while, now it looks like he's leaving 'Gladbach. He could give his club team, that he knows well after years there, at best 20 minutes of good soccer. Really, making him cross the ocean at this point was not just tempting fate, but plain inconsiderate.

    Let him rest, try to earn a living with whatever MLS club will take him, and live with the memories from back when he was decent with the NT. Time to move on.
     
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  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC

    It gets better and better from you. The first article actually lauds chandlers efforts to play for the USMNT once he had committed and the other article is simply the same issue of what he did before he committed to the USMNT.
     
  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Nagbe has very good ball control for an American player, but his lack of ideas is unnerving. He might once in a blue moon make the right pass or have the good run, but the chances of it happening in a game that matters are remote.

    Nagbe is one of the most frustrating players we've ever had.
     
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  9. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "No value", except as a data point establishing a pattern of bias with Berhalter's choices.

    I'm arguing, picking Mihailovic as yet another example, that 3G consistently picks the wrong/worse players in the pool. Not only does he continue to ride out old guys like Gonzalez, Bradley, and Ream, but he chooses the worst backups too.

    His preference is manifesting itself, and he is choosing a ton of marginal MLS players over veteran and younger European players... and then he can't even get THOSE guys right! I can make a good case to use an extremely marginal Julian Green AND MLS-based Nagbe over the #2 CAM on this team (Roldan/Mihailovic are the B-team CAM pairing clearly). Why is that not a problem?

    In what world is Lovitz in our pool backing up Ream, who is himself an inexplicable auto starter? Aside from the obvious Fabian Johnson and cutting bait with Robinson, did Villafana fall off the face of the earth? You know, an LB with actual experience with the team, instead of some random anonymous player that even Montreal fans couldn't recognize?

    Is there any justification whatsoever to start Omar Gonzalez other than some kind of soccer "redemption" fanfic story? OG is at the expense of a young player in CCV, but I could just as easily argue that if 3G's going to go the LigaMX route, that Alvarado is a better choice for the 40-man, because he's younger and actually starts in LigaMX as a captain. Or, if he wants an MLS player, put Auston Trusty on instead, help him get a European contact/introduce him to the team. Need veteran presence? How about Besler, also in MLS?

    That's not even touching Zardes starting, Morris, and the forwards. To be fair, I like his wing choices so far aside from Morris.

    It's a problem. He's supposed to be a good evaluator of MLS talent because he's been there, and it doesn't look like he is whatsoever.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You literally were yelling at the press for never asking the question. I was pointing out that the press aren't biased or bribed; it's just not anything anyone cares about.

    You brought up the press.

    But yes, keep living in that conspiracy-filled world of weirdness.
     
  11. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed upon facts and direct quotes = conspiracy theories, gotcha.

    Good to know.

    Bringing up the press as inadequate to put any pressure whatsoever on our Federation is a little different from what you're saying, which is the total opposite.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm well aware that the reason you are here and arguing is to attempt to score points for your argument.

    I get that that has become more important than simply rationally evaluating things.
     
  13. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just not true. Nagbe is one of the best in the world at holding the ball. He's a fantastic pressure relief valve, but you're not going to get much in terms of direct contributions to goals. Because of his style and skillset, there's just not a lot of teams he will be a good fit for.
     
  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey, I'd been a regular reader of this forum for several years before I finally joined to comment. I enjoyed reading what people with far better observational skills and historical and contextual knowledge had to say, and I didn't feel I had anything to add. I think that is probably true of a lot of people on BS.
     
  15. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is rational evaluation. People being unable or unwilling to accept rational arguments is not my fault, and why I need to keep responding.

    I'm not spouting nonsense, and this subject area is nuanced, which means when people create strawmen, or refuse to debate the actual crux of the arguments in here, I'm forced to respond with clarification after clarification. Which sounds like a big pat on the back, but my point is, I'm not saying 9/11 was an inside job, or that Santa is real. I'm not actually saying anything crazy and easily dismissed. And the fact that the sport is nuanced means that people can be far apart, with neither talking nonsense.

    For example, we identified some unique parts of 3Gs system in attack, and determined that the RB/DM wrinkle isn't a necessity at all. That's not nothing.

    It's also not the only thing worth discussing. You can only go with the horses you have. Hence, 3G has been roundly excoriated on here for his choices. I think there is a pattern in them. You might not. But, the soccer press, long-maligned and accepted by the community here as "soft" on the Federation and its players relative to other countries on soccer, or relative to our news media on other sports here, is not an appeal to authority that I respect as valid.
     
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  16. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't have the memory that some of you do (sidefootsitter, where'd you go?), but there were definitely mentions that, for example, he declined call-ups because he didn't want to do the travel. He may have feigned an injury once. The details are sketchy in my brain. I can't fathom how to even go back to all the threads where these things were discussed, but it was in multiple threads, and a bunch of posters I respected for their solid analysis and perhaps access to inside knowledge provided information.
     
  17. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    Though I consider the sample size up to now inconclusive for much of what he is doing (getting more clear now with Gold Cup), this is is my biggest concern about Egg given what we've seen.
     
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  18. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    One would think that there’d be some public evidence of something so widely know.
     
  19. crookeddy

    crookeddy Member+

    Apr 27, 2004
    Scores goals.
     
  20. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's easy to say that now, after Mihailovic shat the bed in the most recent friendlies (which, I presume, is why he wasn't included in the initial 23 roster for the Cup). He did do very well in January, looking like one of the top few players in those games (as many people noted--I too was shocked because I'd never previously even heard his name).
     
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  21. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Camp Cupcake friendlies shower that he is ok against D- competition.
     
  22. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The great thing about Nagbe is that he doesn't lose possession.

    The infuriating thing about Nagbe is that keeping possession seems to be his only priority.
     
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  23. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    confucius say to keep posession, one must never lose ball—if ball in back of net, ball is lost
     
  24. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    pretty brilliant skillset

    'one of the best in the world at holding the ball'...he isn't one of the best in anything

    but 'holding the ball' quite a skill he just rarely makes an impact in any match and for the last 8 years next year was the year he would breakout...we are still waiting. He was brilliant against Panama and T&T in those two qualifiers I mean he was so invisible you forget he played.
     
  25. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    you've been arguing for julian green for two weeks lol.

    the real question is why aren't you arguing for Wooten who had a much better season in the same league?

    the answer...because you think scoring against belgium five years ago and a friendly against france right before the world cup is some sort of magical religious sign that he is great or something.
     

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