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  1. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    It seems time to start a 2019 thread for The Netherlands, yes?

    I hate that my first post in this thread is a negative: Apparently, in either her first or second appearance on the field for Barcelona after recovering from a knee injury that kept her out of action for months, centerback Stephanie Van der Graft suffered another knee injury in a match a few days ago, after she'd come on as a substitute. She is back on the shelf. I haven't read what the exact nature of the industry is, don't know if it's the same knee that was injured previously--but it seems fairly serious and she is not among the 25 players who are now in camp for an upcoming friendly against South Africa. It seems likely that she will miss the World Cup as well, and that's a blow for The Netherlands as Van der Gragt is a good player at a vital position.

    That said, I think the Dutch can be OK without her: Dominque Bloodworth stepped into her position for the national team a few months back and she is quite capable, IMO. She doesn't have a ton of experience at centerback but she's played the position for a while now, and she has got some size, athleticism and ball skills. I'm pretty confident in her. She'd previously played outside back for the Dutch--the position she plays for Arsenal. Van der Gragt's injury does, however, cut into the depth of The Netherlands side, which doesn't have a lot of quality depth to begin with--very little, in fact. Had Van der Graft regained her fitness, she might have reclaimed her centerback spot and perhaps Coach Wiegman would have moved Bloodworth back to one of the fullback positions. I can't see that happening now, which means that Van Es and Van Lunteren are locked into the outside back positions. They don't get much notoriety, but they're experienced and have shown themselves over the last year or two to be solid players. They haven't been tested a lot by good teams in recent months--the Dutch have dominated the ball in most of their matches over the last year--but even so my confidence level in them, like Bloodworth, has been growing.
     
  2. law10

    law10 Member+

    Dec 26, 2007
    I saw her play a few national games when she was a youth player and a Janssen, she read the game very well and was one of the main reasons they were UEFA champions. Miedema in the front and Janssen in the back.
     
  3. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I guess that's the biggest problem with Dutch NT, especially in defense. Another serious injury or two in the starting 11 before the World Cup could spell doom for Netherlands' chances.

    Van Es was coming back in 2017 from a nightmare set of injuries, so I guess she's not likely to go through the same thing again, but I wonder about the health of the rest of the team, because there doesn't seem to be many reliable replacements in line.

    This summer I had the chance to see some good-to-decent Dutch players at U-20 WWC in France. They're very young, of course, but is there any chance that one or two of them can make the roster for Senior WWC, given the general low depth of the team?
    I remember that I had liked a lot the right-winger of that team, Naomi Pattiwael. Of course that role is excellently covered by Shanice Van de Sanden in Senior Team right now, but it wouldn't be bad to have a substitute on the bench. :coffee:
     
  4. Reign Man

    Reign Man Member

    SEATTLE REIGN!
    Sep 28, 2016
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I read that Van De Donk was listed as injured in Arsenal's match last week? Anybody know how serious it is?
     
  5. law10

    law10 Member+

    Dec 26, 2007
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  6. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Let's hope Van de Donk's thigh injury isn't too serious. Thigh bruises in some cases can be deep and difficult to recover from, but let's be optimistic about Van de Donk, who's been having a great year for Arsenal and scoring a lot of goals. A recovery/rest break might be a good thing for her as she's been playing a lot of football--everyone who is in season and on the NT's has--and maybe some would welcome a bit of rest.

    As for young players on the Dutch U20 squad who might make the senior roster, there might be a couple. I know that they brought three/four new names to the South Africa camp. One of them is centerback Danique Kerkdijk who is 22 and plays for Bristol City. I think she was on the either the U20 or senior NT earlier in her career and then got dropped, so it sounds like she's still got promise. They'll certainly need to find another outside back or two, especially now that Bloodworth has to play centerback with Van der Gragt out. The problem for The Netherlands is that of quality depth. I'm pretty sure they don't have another mid, for example, who can play at, say, even 80 percent of the level of Van de Donk--and the same applies to at least four or more of their starters. Beerenstyn is the exception: She is an outstanding sub--someone who could start and has started matches for the NT. Midfielder Jill Roord has been on the NT roster for a while and plays for Bayern Munich. She gets mentioned a lot but haven't seen her play much. I hope all the players on all the teams stay healthy.
     
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  7. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    here's the full game between the Dutch & South Africa
     
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  8. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Just watched the Netherlands v. South Africa friendly. South Africa strikes me as a team that could be, and should be, better than its No. 48 world ranking, as they've got a team full of quick, pacy players and are dangerous on the counterattack. Problem is, they're not a good possession team. And so the Dutch controlled play throughout, scored a couple of goals early, but gave away a goal at the 34' mark, roughly, on a mistake by new centerback Danique Kerkdijk. After a brief fight for the ball about 30 yards out in front of the Dutch goal, Kerkdijk kicked the ball back toward her keeper, apparently assuming that there were no SA forwards lurking behind her. There was, and Kjatlana pounced on the ball, roared past the last Dutch defender, darted around GK Van Veenendal and scored to make the match 2-1 at the half.

    That would be the final score. In the 2nd half South Africa created at least three promising counterattacking opportunities with their blazingly fast forwards, two of whom play in the NWSL, but they could not capitalize on any of them. The Dutch, playing a lot of new players, struggled to create quality chances in the 2nd half as the South Africans were sitting back and clogging up the middle.

    The match gave the Dutch coaching team a chance to look at some players who don't get much playing time or were new call-ups, and it also may have given them an early peek at what they can expect in their group WC match against Cameroon this summer--a team ranked 46.

    This was the first time I've gotten an extended look at Jill Roord, who played the entire game in midfield, and she was solid---active, physical, pushed the ball forward; overall, did a good job. Likewise, D. Bloodworth looked quite good at centerback. A longtime starter for a very good Arsenal team, Bloodworth has excellent size and athleticism, and is a high-quality player. In a perfect world in which centerback Van der Gragt was healthy, Bloodworth would be playing outside back, but Van der Gragt seems out of the WC and so Bloodworth and Dekker are going to be the back pairing, surely, for the Dutch.

    Kerkdijk played a half at centerback, opposite Bloodworth, and except for the one bad decision, looked pretty good, but then she didn't have to do much defending. She has size, more than adequate athleticism, it would seem, and she made some nicely weighted passes. She needs more high-level match experience, IMO, to hone her decision-making--but has some promise, from what I saw. In the 2nd half, Van Dongen moved over to centerback, opposite Bloodworth, after playing outside back in the first half. She is another of the many capable players on the Dutch side.

    The biggest challenge for the Dutch in the WC, in my opinion, will be just what they saw in this match--not getting caught out by counterattacks involving speedy opposition forwards and wingers. The Netherlands defenders, as a group, are solid--they do not make many mistakes. But they are not the fastest group in the back--especially Dekker and, I think, Van Es--and so have to be vigilant against teams that like to break fast.

    Inessa Kaagman got what I think was her first senior NT cap for the Dutch, playing in the midfield. She was ok but not very influential on the whole and I don't think is ready for prime time. She was replaced in the 2nd half by 20-year-old phenom Victoria Pelova, also getting what I think is her first cap--correct me if I'm wrong (I could be). Pelova is not very tall--5'3"--and because she's short not very fast. But she can play: She is attacking minded, has got a lot of lower body strength and is strong on the ball--good at holding onto to it, turning and then making the right pass, usually. Pace might be an issue for her going forward, but she impressed and will be a Dutch player to watch in the next cycle. I suspect we'll see more of her soon.

    Otherwise, Martens played the first 24' minutes then was subbed out after she apparently tweaked a hamstring. Hope it is not too serious--she wasn't limping. Miedema played a half and scored a goal, her 54th in 66 intl. caps. The young woman can finish--might be the best finisher in the game, IMO. I think the Algarve Cup is next on the schedule....
     
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  9. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    It looks like Van der Gragt is training again with Barcelona, which would appear to be good news for the Dutch national team. I notice that's she been on the squad for two of Barcelona's last three games but didn't appear in either, according to the lineups/match timelines I've seen. I thought she'd re-injured her knee 3+ months ago but it seems that the injury in fact involved a leg muscle--a quadricep, maybe, which can take a long time to heal in some cases. I'm not positive about any of this--just tidbits I (mabye) picked up from translations. If any Dutch speakers can offer more details on her injury or current status, please do weigh in! If she can get healthy and fit again, start playing again, Van der Gragt could help bolster the Dutch defense. At the least, she will give the coaches more options and flexibility for their back four. Fingers crossed for her.
     
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  10. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #10 hotjam2, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
    The newbie CB was a total disaster in the SA game, not only stupidly making that horrible, long back pass(that led to the S.A. goal)but got buy rned several times as well defending. One 1v1 inside the penalty box, then a few times trying go chase down high balls. But it's can be hard for even the best to try a new scheme or new coach, first time out.
    Hopefully Dekker will be back as well

    Thought that Roots, had a good game as well. Hopefully it was good enough to cement her in the starting lineup over the currently injured Groenen(who was a good playmaker but not all over the pitch pressing g like the more athletic Roord is, especially coming over to did the defensive deficiencies of Spitse)
    AS for Miedema, sharpshooter with goal she scores, but sometimes missing for long periods of the gam. Just like go see her more active
     
  11. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    I have to disagree about Groenen and Roord. I watched the recent full matches against Switzerland in the WC qualifying playoffs, and Groenen was one of the best players on the pitch for The Netherlands in the first game, before she got injured. She is very active and athletic, good at getting into spaces in attack, and tenacious when challenging for the ball. Her biggest weakness is that she is not a good finisher, and also she's not very big. She had two decent scoring chances in the first half of the first game against Switzerland and did not get either one of them on net. While her midfield partner, Van de Donk, has shown that she can score in various ways (just an excellent player), Groenen struggles to put the ball in the net.

    As it happens, Groenen sprained her ankle in the second half of the first Switzerland game and Roord came in to replace her and played the last 20 minutes or so. I have not seen a lot of Roord, I confess, but I have not been terribly impressed by what I have seen. I /want/ to be impressed--because the Dutch need another good midfielder given their depth problems--but have I haven't been.

    Roord is bigger than Groenen, and seems reasonably athletic--but her work rate does not seem that high--it is certainly not as high as Groenen's. She just doesn't strike me as special in any way. Groenen has better ball skills and is quicker. It is interesting that Groenen plays for Hamburg in the German league, which I think is a middle-pack team at best, while Roord plays for the big club, Bayern Munich But I don't think Roord is a regular starter--more often than not, it seems, she comes off the bench.

    Roord was unlucky in the second Switzerland match. Because of Groenen's ankle injury, Roord was named a starter in her place--but then early in the match (12' or so), Dekker got a red card, the Dutch went a man down, and the coach, Wiegman, opted to pull Roord and replace her with another defender. It a necessary move. It was obvious that Roord was unhappy not to get her chance to play in that match, and I would have loved to see more of her game. I'm sure she'll get some action in the Algarve Cup coming up in a few days.

    Actually, the most promising young midfielder for The Netherlands is Victoria Pelova. She is only 19, a regular for the Dutch U19 team and has already got two caps for the big club. I saw her in action against South Africa and, while she is not very tall (5'3", I think), she has got a strong lower body and her ball skills and decision-making are very good. She has strong on the ball and has good attacking instincts. One could see her qualities right away, and she is someone who will be getting more playing time in the midfield going forward, I think. She has a lot of potential.

    I saw where Van der Gragt played a full game for Barcelona at centerback a few days ago. Very encouraging as I think that was the first full game she has played in a long time. I would think the Dutch coaches will want to play her a lot in the Algarve Cup and other friendlies over the next three months and try to get her fully fit and ready for the World Cup, because they need her. I actually have not seen her play a lot, but she is younger and more athletic than Dekker, and I hope we see Van der Gragt and Bloodworth at centerback in June, with Dekker on the bench.

    Dekker has been a Dutch stalwart for years--she is big and tall and dangerous on corner kicks. But she's 32 now and not very fast and not very good with the ball, which is how she came to get red-carded against Switzerland. (She fumbled around with the ball, lost it to a Swiss forward and then pulled down the Swiss player who would have gone in on the Dutch goal.) Dekker is someone who looks perfectly good while playing against lesser opponents that do not trouble the Dutch defense but can be exposed and beaten by good attacking teams with pace. I think the same worry applies to outside back Van Es: She is a solid player but lacks a bit of pace and, like Dekker, is someone who could have problems against a team with excellent speed on the wings like France.

    Come the World Cup, Wiegman will have to decide where it is best to play the versatile Bloodworth, who has become a very good and key player for the Dutch (good size and athleticism, and a good passer). Will she be at centerback (perhaps paired with Van der Gragt) or be moved back to outside back, where she played in Euro17, and let Dekker and Van der Gragt handle the centerback duties? (She is actually playing midfield now for Arsenal, and quite good in that role as well.) It would not be an easy decision to bench the veteran Dekker, but that is something the Dutch coaches will have to strongly consider, I think, if Van der Gragt is fully healthy and ready to play in three months.
     
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  12. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Problem is that Groenen doesn't have a good in record for her club(which is actually Frankfurt). As an attacking mid, she's only got one goal to her credit in 9 games, 810 minutes so far this season(dunno her assist record however).
    Meantime Roord got 4 goals in 596 min. over at BM. Their kinda stingy over at BM with playing time fot foreigners since they bought off this season what seems like half the German NT. We'll see how much time Roord will get when BM takes on league leaders Wolfsburg this Sunday.
    Dunno how many tackles Roord got credit for vs South Africa, but it did seem like a bunch/ whereas don't know Groenen does in such a capacity
     
  13. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Oops, sorry I got Groenen's German team wrong. I don't see her play in Germany, so in truth I can't say how she is playing. I have seen her play a lot for the Dutch NT, and she is not someone The Netherlands counts on to score--they've got Miedema, Martins, Van de Donk (10 goals for Arsenal this year) and Spitze to put the ball in the net. Groenen's does get chances to score, and really needs to improve her finishing--but her strength is her defense and work rate, and that is very valuable on any team--you need players like that. She was great in the Euro17 semifinal against England--maybe the best player on the pitch. After that tournament Louis van Gaal mentioned her good play. True, that was more than a year ago, so things change, but it shows her qualities. Frankfurt is a lot different from the Dutch NT, of course, and they are making a mistake if they think Groenen will score a lot of goals for them. She's been with them for, what, three years now? They should know what she does best (and what not).

    As for Roord, hey, I'm sure the Dutch coaches will play her if they think she makes the team better. That hasn't been the case so far. I'm happy with any change that makes the team better!
     
  14. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    you might enjoy watching the big match between Munich vs Wolfsburg live in a few hoursr. Hopefully Roord as well as Bereenstyn get dome playing time.
    Frauen-Bundesliga: FC Bayern München - VfL Wolfsburg
    German coaching has a certain, chess like feel about them, but then they seem to discourage athleticism(among their domestic players) where as I think you need a bit of a balance
    different link will be coming up later in the day if you don't watch it live
     
  15. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017

    Thanks for the link. I have watched first half of the match. Bayern played very well defensively--they made it very hard for Wolfsburg to possess the ball or create--and scored twice to take a 2-0 lead. Very nice stadium and pitch at the BM campus--though the pitch almost seems a little small as it was crowded with players; every time somebody received a pass there were three opponents around her. Probably just my perception.

    Beerenstyn started and played well, helped to create a goal, but missed a very good opportunity to score when she 1v1 with the keeper. Keeper came out and made the save. Maybe Beerenstyn should have chipped the ball. No sign of Roord. I don't think she's a starter for BM. Not sure how much she plays, but maybe she should consider going to a club where she can start and play more. That might help her game, but she might be reluctant to leave one of the best and wealthiest organizations in all of soccer!

    I saw an interview with Miedema a couple of days ago, and she talked about playing for Bayern in the Bundesliga from 2014 to 2017. She said when she was playing in Germany--starting 5 years ago-- the Bundesliga was probably the best league in women's football--but she doesn't think that is true now. She said she decided to leave BM and join Arsenal because she didn't like the direct, long-ball style of soccer BM played. She said she got tired of chasing long balls. She loves the Arsenal style. I'm not criticizing BM--just passing along what Miedema said!

    I will watch the second half of this match to see if Roord plays. I saw the highlights and so know that Wolfsburg made a comeback! cheers.
     
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  16. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    That's interesting what Miedema said. But we all know Wiegmann is a long-ballin coach. Her targets always seem to be van de Sanden & Martins on either flanks, with Miedema usually trailling in hopes of latching on to a cross kick, but at the same time, any coach would like to have a central striker who's obviously closest placed to the opposing goal & taking on defenders 1v1. Miedema's seemingly reluctance to do that is perhaps why Wiegman gone to starting Beerensteyn?
     
  17. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Miedema will start at center-forward for the Dutch in the World Cup. I'll be shocked if she doesn't--she is arguably the best finisher in women's soccer. Beerenstyn is talented and was started in one or two WC qualifying matches instead of Miedema, true, but I think more often Wiegman has sent Beerenstyn in at 70' or so in place of Van de Sanden. Beerenstyn is certainly valuable and will be important to the Dutch in the tournament: the big question is where and when to use her.

    With respect to long balls, there is a difference between sending a ball down the field in the hope that Miedema can chase it down and do something with it and sending it down the flanks on a counter-attack and letting the speedy Martens and Van de Sanden run it down and create chances for the trailing Miedema, as they often do. That is a smart way to play--but sending Miedema chasing down balls, as she says her teammates were doing in Germany, is not so wise because Miedema is neither fast nor strong enough for that tactic.
     
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  18. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #18 hotjam2, Feb 21, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
    From double checking; Miedema didn't start at either of the Danish games(these were right after the Norway loss), nor in 3 of the 5 group qualifiers in 2018. So I do think Wiegman did have some issues with Miedema's style
     
  19. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Yes, I was very interested to know why Wiegman started Beerenstyn. It was surprising to me, but it was a good decision, I suppose, since she scored the first (and game-winning goal) in the first playoff game against Denmark. She is a very good player--with a style like Kerr. Wiegman will play her and Miedema at the same time in the World Cup, I'm sure, but who knows how much.
     
  20. Article on Spitse. Use google translate.
    https://www.ad.nl/nederlands-voetbal/duracell-batterijtje-spitse-nog-lang-niet-leeg~ad1f2c21/
    [​IMG]
    PREMIUM
    Sherida Spitse als aanvoerder met de beker na het gewonnen EK 2017 in eigen land. © Laurens Lindhout/Soccrates
    ‘Duracell-batterijtje’ Spitse nog lang niet leeg

    157ste interlandSherida Spitse is pas 28 jaar, maar speelt vandaag tegen Spanje al haar 157ste interland. Een record. Haar loopbaan in vijf wedstrijden.

    Daniël Dwarswaard 27-02-19, 08:50 Laatste update: 09:12
     
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  21. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  22. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
  23. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #23 hotjam2, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    it's back on! I say put Roord in there for Groenen!
     
  24. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    2-0 Spain. Only got to see one of their goals, but they got plenty of opportunities to get behind our defense, whereas the Dutch couldn't get any fast breaks through long balls going as Spain got back in time to defend well.

    Spain has a lot of chemistry since they usually have a dozen players from Barca & a half dozen from Athletico Madrid, but Wiegmann really will have to get this team working stronger as a unit & she has one month less to do so than at Euros, since the WC starts June(as compared to July)
     
  25. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Yes, bit of a weird game, what with the Dutch playing their No. 2 goalie and inserting a substitute forward (R. Jansen) at left back. Jansen hasn't played much at all over the last two years, and I've never seen her at left back, so it was an unusual move and she didn't look very good, frankly. The starting left back, Van Es, is a solid player but she is not all that fast and I wonder if the coaches are looking for a little more pace and athleticism at the position, which you will want when playing good teams with fast forwards. Unfortunately, I think it's a little late to experiment with Jansen. In a perfect world Bloodworth would play outside back, but she's too valuable at centerback now, I think. Bloodworth has the potential to be an excellent centerback--but she's been playing midfield for Arsenal the last month (and before that outside back), and it's not easy to switch back and forth.

    Van der Gragt was back at centerback, playing with Bloodworth--a welcome sight and I think only her second start in the last 12 months. She only played a half and clearly needs to get back to game fit again. It will be interesting to see who ends up starting at centerback for the Dutch come the World Cup. Will Bloodworth stay at centerback--I'd bet she will--and if so how will be her defensive partner? We'll see.

    Otherwise, Van de Donk, not her usual self, played a half, replaced by Roord. Miedema played 52' minutes or so. I'm still not much impressed by Roord. She's not busy enough, IMO.

    I did not see the Spain goal in the first half, so don't know what happened. Spain are a good squad--they showed that against the U.S.--and can kind of lull you to sleep with all their knocking around of the ball in the midfield, and then somebody makes a run and defenders are caught a bit flat-footed.

    I saw all of the second half and thought The Netherlands played pretty well--had the better of play--but the Dutch couldn't find the finishing touch and then were caught on a counter, with Jansen and Van Dongen playing too high and out of position; a forward for Spain slipped by, got a pass and slipped the ball past Geurts.

    Martens and Beerensteyn were both lively and dangerous at times on the wings, but they didn't get much help. One of Spain's best attributes is that they are very good at getting back and thwarting counters by opponents. I noticed that against the U.S. and I noticed it today: you win the ball and whip to a breaking forward on the wing, thinking you might have something, and somehow four or more Spaniards have gotten back in their defensive third.

    This wasn't the Dutch team we'll see in the WC---and not a typical performance--and maybe it wasn't the Spanish team we'll see, either. Don't know. But credit to Spain for playing well and scoring twice. They are going to give their opponents plenty of problems in France, I think.
     
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