It's official: Berhalter hired

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bharreld, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It may be spin, but some spin is interesting nonetheless. It’s also a rebuttal to people who use Columbus’s record as a point.

    I think the second point I quoted about strikers is more interesting and on point
     
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  2. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I would like to see Saief get a handful of games to see how he fits in. Johnson could be a useful vet once qualifying rolls around if some of the young uns don't pan out or get injured.
     
  3. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    GB said Pulisic is going to play a big role for the USMNT

    Now, that is breaking news.
     
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  4. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Crazy talk!
     
  5. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yeah, but you could also point out that Columbus was woeful in actually scoring. What coach anywhere do we say, "his team doesn't score but he gets goals from his striker"? On the other hand, you can say the team was terrible at scoring actual goals but that they were very good in expected goals. Then you have to get into whether expected goals are actually anything.

    I don't think you can defend the hire on his record. But Shalke couldn't do it with Tedesco, Real Madrid with Zidane, and on and on. They want a guy who will collaborate, who can communicate tactics precisely, and he impressed them and many people USSF talks to. There is nothing wrong with that. They are taking a chance. Actual soccer people like Stewart are rolling the dice too, which is something that Cordeiro should trumpet. Not econ professors who dabble part time.

    The fact that Stewart hired him is probably the best thing going for him. He has run multiple clubs in multiple leagues and has had success at each stop. Out of all the USMNT coaches in history, Berhalter was hired by the first person actually qualified to make such a hire! Hank Steinbrecher (sp?), Sunil Gulati? Alan Rothenberg? Contigula? These are the guys that hired every coach since the 1990 World Cup.

    But trying to cover up a terrible process by asserting that it was necessary to uncover this rare diamond is just insulting to everyone's intelligence. Just apologize for the delay, admit we are behind in the cycle unnecessarily, and move forward.
     
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  6. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    One thing I like about Berhalter is that he will have the boys and the coaching staff ready for the bullshit that is CONCACAF qualifying: crap fields, hotel shenanigans, bribed refs, diving, time wasting, cheap shot fouls, fans throwing shit at the players. He's seen it all before.
     
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  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Johnson has been in and out of the clubs gameday roster because of injury. He has frequently been injury prone. He does not play the position we need him in. He will be 31 in 6 days time.
     
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  8. #8or#6

    #8or#6 Red Card

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 15, 2017
    If that's what you heard when Klinsmann spoke, it was your naivete which led you to believe the mirage to be an oasis. I never had that vision so I was able to see the matches unfiltered by expectation.
     
  9. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    What position do we need him in?
     
  10. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He tends to play wing-forward nowadays. We need him at left-back.
     
  11. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    USMNT should learn from Chile. Press, get the ball, quick and lethal counter attack.

    We will not be able to play tiki taka against the best in the world. Build from the back, ball circulation, and possession is a pipe dream.

    Many guys on the US roster still couldn't trap the damn ball. Our players got speed and a very high work rate, use it to our advantage.
     
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  12. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #337 juvechelsea, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    I am curious how many qualifiers he did play. He was first capped in 1994 but didn't make either that or the 1998 team. He made the 2002 and 2006 teams but sat the whole 2006 tournament after the pre-tourney Germany debacle. He did have the big near goal in 2002 but people forget when the tournament started he was backup to Agoos and Pope, who played all the group stage games and I believe started the Mexico game. Agoos gets hurt during the first round game and so he plays the balance of the knockouts. Ballack is between him and Pope on the goal, and while controversial, his header was basically into the guy on the post.

    I feel like it indulges the same sort of mythos as how he is the greatest value coach ever on the Crew.

    Stewart should know better as he was on the field for roughly every game we played for 3 world cups, overlapping him. Berhalter, no one seems to remember it went from Lalas/ Pope/ Agoos to Gooch/ Boca/DeMerit etc. Now, Earnie, that kind of player, I could buy him schooling the next generation on international play.
     
  13. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter had the infamous arm grow out of his forehead in CR. This means he will be able to prepare the team not to lose to a bunch of scrubs on a wet field in a do or die qualifying match, apparently. If only Arena or Klinsi or the players had had any experience with CONCACAF then we would have qualified for 2018. (Agoos in the WC was a bright light on Arena's major flaw that screwed us in 06 and for 18).

    Re 2002 WC: Friedel was victimized twice on free kicks that he should've come out for, IMO. Korea and Germany. Both goals off free kicks, headed at the 6.
     
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  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    We have been quite ineffective at pressing - forcing very few turnovers. Any thoughts as to why? I would think our high work rate / speedy players would be better at this but we haven’t been.
     
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  15. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    hmmm, we need someone at left back. But, imo, Johnson is still as good (at least) of a wing-forward as Kenny Saief - which is why I made the comparison.
     
  16. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    The team needs better tactics. You don't just blindly run after the ball and call it pressing.

    It's a collective effort, the entire team need to better identify the opponent's passing lanes and outlets, then cut them off. Force the player with the ball to cough it up while being pressed, or make an errand pass.

    Go back and watch Chile in 2014 WC. They were really fun to watch, highly entertaining, greatly successful in the press and attack, you always know what's coming from them. They have a DNA.
     
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  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I agree and I don't think anything has been ruled out. But GB is a possession/Dutch style coach. He will adjust to teams, but within the framework. It won't be like Klinsi, Arena, or Sarachan, I suppose, who changed things dramatically from game to game. Remember, Arena came out in a flat 4-4-2 in September that was never seen before and was a real misfit formation. We scored one goal in those two games off a free kick.

    We won't be playing tiki taka against good teams. Things will be adjusted. I think tiki taka is not a particular good way to view it. That is an extreme system that isn't even working for Spain anymore.

    I think GB will come up with a system that evolves from what he has done in Columbus. It will move the creativity to the wings (once Pulisic in the middle is tried) from the #10 and there will be more high pressing probably. We can absolutely do it against everyone in CONCACAF and we should try it against Mexico.
     
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  18. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    How many of our DMs do you watch and see Future Jermaine Jones qualities in?

    That's not going to be my final answer til I see whether this was something Sarachan told them to do as passive bunker tactics, but I am skeptical until I see it.
     
  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    It takes team work. There's lots of small stuff one can do which does not turn up on stat sheets.

    One thing people have to remember is that Berhalter likes to make the pitch big - he said so himself in interviews after hire. That means players further apart, less likely to have capacity to combine for successful turnovers. People mention Chile. Chile played compact. They won and lost the ball multiple times in 30 seconds. The game Berhalter will play will ressemble more Real Madrid with Pulisic as Ronaldo, Sarge as Benzema, etc. The key is that midfield because creating a big space for Higuaín to play in at Crew (by pulling the play wide and making the pitch big) also made the space big for a counter right at Trapp sitting between two widely spaced cb's.

    Personally I think Berhalter should play with 3 mids - two good passers and one runner (Adams). I think he fills the HIguain role but coming from the back and playing either side laterally - that would be how he would unbalance the opposition, instead of having Higuaín trotting around in circles waiting for space to exploit with a pass or shot (which wont be allowed in concacaf like it is in MLS even if we had somebody of that type).

    With 3 mids the question is how to formulate the front three. I would make one of them a cmid like Weston who can drop into dmid to cover Adams going forward. Weston and Adams can both score. Pulisic can play his game wide either side, leading the line, and Sarge can combine from the central position, dropping back to pick up the ball

    -----------------------------------------Pulisic(7/11)
    --------------------Sarge(9)

    --------------------------------Weston(10)

    ----------adams(7/11))------trapp(6)------Delgado(8)

    Swiss knife Roldan can plug in for any of those mids. Canouse is a contender for 6. Weston is one of those guys who is still transitioning to a role he feels most comfortable in, for club and country, so his future is up in the air.
     
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  20. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #345 juvechelsea, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    Where is the passer? Where is the destroyer? It sounds nice but unless we move Pulisic in/back -- and in so doing blunt our own attack -- who is the creator? And then some of the designated cleanup crew could be called DMs but do they play like it? I thought precisely the lesson of the recent games was these 4 or similar couldn't connect up, couldn't create, couldn't destroy either. That maybe this bunch are all a little too much the perjorative "two way," ie, jack of all trades master of none. So I hear what you are saying and maybe the tactics accomplish it, but I am looking for the specialists to execute it. I want Pulisic wide like for Dortmund and to leave the forwards where they belong as well. OK, then, who actually table sets at an international level, including the ability to dribble out of trouble, one touch pass, and otherwise work in small spaces. And who is not just vaguely in a zone conceding possession but able to win a ball.

    I mean, to lob a stinkbomb in here but then leaven it with hope, you're kind of trusting that tactics alone salvage the same type lineup that hasn't worked lately. I'd be skeptical. At least one thing I derived from the past few games, even if the players may have in some sense just been fending for themselves from poor coaching while trying to implement extremely conservative tactics, is if coaching matters that much to competence some of these guys are likely not the long term future of the team. I feel like some of the discussion is like frozen in time somewhere in the past year. If tactics don't fix this you're going to see Amon, Canouse, some new Euro players, and more pointedly, it may take some more U20 graduates, a couple classes worth. So my response is with some of these players who barely even have first team pro careers started, it's not just, does Berhalter fix them with tactics and coaching, but do they even turn out. I feel like some of the formations that just shift around deck chairs on the recent Titanic results, like, no, this is not possibly the end game, not if we have a clue, not if the next few U20s get a chance also since this team is so young and few players own their spots yet.
     
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    If we're going to press, we should absolutely do this but we haven't done it under any of our previous coaches even when we try to press.
     
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  22. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh it means something, alright. As you "know", the 8th circle was where the fraudulent, the fake, the con men, were consigned. Like those guys who promise a team worthy of Paradise, and instead give you the sorry collection from our last Gold Cup. Guys like "Savior", for example.
    Before I'll join the mob in huzzah'ing for those who cry out for Gregg's noggin', I think I'll let him have as much time as "Savior" did to show what the USMNT will actually be like under his tutelage. Let his record speak for itself. Let my lyin' eyes show what unfolds on the field of play.

    Now, as to why you think that expecting good results against Panama or Costa Rica should deserve the icy grip of stone cold Death, you tell me. But if the 9th circle is what you aspire to, well, Godspeed !
     
  23. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    except coaching ≠ playing. If it was, Juergen would have been one of best coaches in the world.
     
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  24. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please stop pretending like your rambling, incoherent responses are actual counterpoints.

    We don't agree, but now you've buttressed your opinion with nonsense.

    I'm done with you on this topic.
     
  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #350 IndividualEleven, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    A 3G-style team based on the 2015 Columbus Crew would be---

    ---------------------Wood---------
    -------Gall--------Adams-------Pulisic
    -------------Weston----Williams----
    ---Robinson----------------------------Yedlin
    --------------Brooks-----Miazga-----
    --------------------Horvath----

    Wood, admittedly, is more Ola than Kei Kamara, who was on the '15 team. But Ola did put up big numbers for the Crew.

    Adams isn't a specialist 10, like Higuain, but no players under the age of 32 have extensive experience there.

    Pulisic and Gall would ably play the Ethan Finlay and Justin Meram roles.

    Other options to try in the hole would be Lletget, Nagbe, Roldan, Green, Pulisic, or Picault(a left-field pick, but I love his pace, workrate, and development).

    Imo, the talent pool would be better utilized in 433, 343, or 352. But, I'm guessing the coach will want to first try to implement his preferred formation.
     
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