Why so defensive? Anyone or any type of circumstance can easily disrupt a team from losing a game or subsequently getting eliminated from a tournament which is in effect what happened to Italy. It only takes 5 seconds to score a goal and Italy lost and was in fact eliminated from the WC. Again, I'm not saying Bonucci going to Milan was the only reason on why Italy was eliminated from the WC but it could have easily contributed to a happenstance on why gli azzurri did not go to Russia. You get rid of player because he is or was , (in the case of Bonucci -Allegri) a disruption to the team and he left to Milan who last year anyway, was clearly not playing at the level Juventus was at. Of course his going to Milan could have contributed to breaking up continuity in a team or ruining a solid diffusive unit. Don't see they that is such a crime to post. Personally in retrospect, I see no point or reason on why Bonucci went to Milan last year nor do I see much of a point in why Juventus is getting him back this year.
Who, Bonucci? I thought he was supposed to score the goals, no? So you defend Ventura, but blame Bonucci? So Bonucci wearing Juve colors last season would have scored that goal? What about the Spain game, well before he was, in fact, fully integrated with Milan? Why didn't he carry that awesome form from that CL final over into the Spain game, early in September 2017? Maybe Ventura should have played him as a forward, like Insigne was used as a defensive midfielder? Might have solved the problem? Sweden scored a goal that ricocheted off a few defenders, I think Bonucci might have been one of them, and then went forward no more. We couldn't score a goal and somehow, defensive "discontinuity" must have been the problem? Who said it was a crime? I'm just trying to understand how it's remotely possible that this defensive discontinuity that supposedly happened when Bonucci left Juve was the reason why we couldn't score goals.
Again, I never posted Bonucci was the only reason on why Italy didn’t make the finals. If you go back and read what I posted, I clearly stated he was not the only reason but he could have easily contributed to being one of the reasons on why Italy was eliminated from the WC. Juve had a top defense with Bonucci as 7 year starter and they won 6 straight scudetti with him in the lineup. He goes to another lesser team in Milan who finished 3rd, 8th , 10th, 7th and 6th the last six seasons. He went from a top club he was used to and went to what to what was clearly an (whether you like the phrase or not) average team. He could have easily lost a step or had a breakdown in continuity when playing for Italy. That could be true of any player who switches teams. You play with inexperienced or lesser quality players , you play to their level. That has been going on for as long as I’ve followed the game. Of course this will affect many players on and off the field with both club and country. I don't see how or why it wouldn't affect him , or anyone else for that matter that goes from a top to an average team. I’m sure it hindered him somewhat both mentally and physically. He didn't seem to me that he was crying too much when he left Milan for Juventus the other day and I still fail to see the reasoning behind the transfer last season or this year.
I just don't see how he could have contributed more defensively when defending wasn't the issue? Or how wearing a different color scheme during the regular season would have made him a great goalscorer against Sweden. None of that makes sense to me.
You know they won without him too though, right? They almost knocked Madrid out of the CL last year without him too. How is that possible?
Bonucci started the 2012 Euro final as well as the 2015 CL final losing to Barca. Juve won without him last year and Milan finished 6th with him which is another reason on how I fail to see the point of that transfer then or now as there was no change from the prior year. It could be one of many or any reasons on why Italy was eliminated and it takes 5 seconds to score a goal or get scored upon. Maybe at one point during those two games against Sweden , Bonucci in that instant was no longer used to playing with Buffon or Chiellini and maybe he was thinking or looking for 19 year old Donnarumma , Borini or Calabria. There is quite a difference between playing with Buffon or Donnarumma and the other guys. Of course there is or could have been a breakdown last season or in those two games. I don't see why there couldn't or wouldn't have been.
He was at fault for at least 3 of those goals scored in those finals. Still, I'm failing to understand how would he have scored against Sweden if he was wearing Juve colors in Serie A? All that, and yet, he might have saved the national team if he remained with Juve who did as good without him? I'm sorry Falvo, I'm just not following the logic here. Or the hot Swedish babes in the stands? Maybe he was looking at them? You don't see why there couldn't or wouldn't have been a breakdown because he wasn't playing with them, at that time, for about 8 weeks of the season? Let me see if I follow. Nesta get's injured in the Czech Rep. game in 06. In comes Materazzi who has never played with Buffon and Cannavaro, or the others in regular season, and he turns out to be the hero. Shouldn't he have not scored and, shouldn't there have been discontinuity in his play given he hasn't ever played club ball with his national team mates?
So what? At leas they got to those finals. They never even qualified this time. I was mostly being facetious about him scoring had he still been with Juve. What I meant was, he may have played better on defense and even prevented that own goal had he stayed with Juve. You have no idea how he will have done or what would have happened had he stayed. The logic is , there was no point top that transfer then or now. In any sport., you go from a top team to an average one, you could easily lose a step, your stamina, speed, strength, ability and continuity. That is true in every sport. He lost his cohesion or the cohesive unit. That was a different time when Italy had players and depth. We had a host of campioni starting and playing at the time in the Serie A. Now we can't even round up a top 6-7 place team who start 3 or 4 Italians good enough for the national team.
So you're saying Bonucci got them there because he was with Juve, and his monstrous disastrous defending that cost them those finals didn't matter because at least, back then, he was with Juve? Who do you blame for him losing his in those games then? Not Juve? Maybe Inter? Because he wasn't with Juve? So if he was still with Juve, he wouldn't have been in that position where the ball ricocheted off DDR then him past Buffon? Maybe the Juve jersey under the national jersey might have shielded him? But you do? You're convinced that if he stayed, somehow that ball wouldn't have hit his leg and deflected past Buffon, and that he might have scored a winner because he scored goals for Italy when he was a Juve player? So when they leave top teams, they don't train and stay in shape anymore and lose stamina now? In what way? Because he wasn't quick enough to get out of the way of a deflecting ball, because he lost stamina from moving away from Juve? Because he couldn't score or inspire the forwards to score with his smiley faces, and whatnot?
Sure why not? He was playing with a top team, he got better. Playing with a crap team he get worse. Pietro Paolo Virdis won a scudetto with Milan in 1987-1988 and was relegated with Lecce to Serie B in 1991. Beppe Dossena won the scudetto with Sampdroa in 1991, played with them until October of that next season scoring two goals in the CL for Samp, slept with Roberto Mancini's wife, was exiled to Perugia in Serie C 1 in November and retired at the end of that season. Of course the team you play with dictates how good or bad you are or could be.
So why did he suck in the finals of those tournaments when he was at a top team? Maybe his horoscope wasn't so good those days?
Who cares? Croatia sucked in the WC Final against France but they still got to the final. Italy didn't even make the tournament. I wish Italy would have sucked all the way to the final but not making the finals was and remains a disgrace.
But did Croatia get to that final because Bonucci wasn't at a top team anymore? Because who knows what would have happened if he was still at a top team, maybe Croatia wouldn't have beaten Russia in the PK's, or something?
I was at the WC final in 1994 and Italy didn't play well throughout the tournament and even lost the first game to Ireland. At least they made the final though and I was proud of that team. .
Imagine if Mandzukic transfered to Inter, just before the world cup, or something? He probably wouldn't have scored that winner against your England
Mario Mandžukić played at Juve and Luka Modrić playued at Real Madrid. They didn't play at 6th place Milan.
So Perisic might have won the cup for Croatia if he wasn't at Inter? Maybe he wouldn't have lost his cohesion in the cohesive unit on that handball if he wore white and black stripes instead? Because you never know what would have happened had he moved.
If Maldini transferred away from a top Milan team in 1994 to a crap one the next year, he may have helped that team from being relegated but he wouldn't have ever won a scudetto , the CL final or lose in a WC final as he did while he was Milan that season. That is what Baggio did with Brescia. They won the Intertoto with him and they were relegated the next season after he retired.
So you agree that if Perisic played for Juve and not Inter, then he probably wouldn't have handled the ball and might likely have scored more goals and won Croatia the world cup? And on that train of thought, how did Materazzi form a cohesion in a cohesive unit with defenders he never played with in 06?
So he was able to form cohesive units with players that he never played with before? No loss in stamina, ability and continuity in that example?
No comparison because he was a great player and again Italy at the time had depth. You can’t replace a Nesta with a Matrix today. We are lucky if we can find two good centrbacks in the top 5/6 squads.
Aha, so what you've been trying to say all along is that Bonucci isn't a great player. Why didn't you just come out and say so then? lol Falvo, going out for a bit, catch up later...
No I never said that he wasn’t a great player. If anything he is one of the best Italy has. That is also because Italy has no one equivalent. Again, I keep coming back to the fact that his transfer to Milan , a 6th place team made no sense then or now. We also have no players similar to what we had from 2006-2012. We have absolutely no depth. Another reason why you should never break up a set squad.