PBP Match Thread: Argentina vs Croatia, 21 June 2018 [R]

Discussion in 'GROUP D: Argentina, Croatia, Iceland, Nigeria' started by bigsoccertst1, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. hector_br

    hector_br Member+

    Feb 13, 2007
    Higuain is a big choker. Why not give Icardi a chance? Because he's not Messi's friend?

    Messi is not captain material. He has no fighting spirit and does nothing to boost his teammates morale. So different from CR or Ramos, for example.

    He has no plan B, like someone here said. He'll do his thing, if it works, great (and sometimes magic). If it doesn't, frustration and little else.
     
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  2. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    A big part of the problem was Sampaoli. Yes, you gave up a goal, but there is plenty of time in the game. Stay calm and focused. Instead the guy panicked, put on 4 forwards and left the defense completely exposed. And as he was having a meltdown on the sideline, the anxiety just rubbed off on the rest of the players. And I'm sorry, but when your 4'3, taking off the jacket doesn't really intimidate anyone ... I don't care how many tattoos you have.
     
  3. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yes, the Baltics play with stoic determination and not that effectively.
     
  4. Daninho777

    Daninho777 Member

    Sep 23, 2009
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    A team like brazil would pick them apart easily. Croatia is good but made to look better by a bad Nigeria and the worst Argentina I’ve ever seen
     
  5. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No but Nigeria might. I could see Nigeria going through with four points to Argentina’s 2. Beat Iceland tomorrow by a couple of goals, draw Argentina and the. Go through barring an Icelandic victory, which isn’t impossible
     
  6. Jonathan Pimentel

    Aug 29, 2013
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Nigeria, who couldnt crack the leaky Croatian backline.. is going to score 2 vs one of the best structured and disciplined defensive team?

    it may happen.. but i dont see it.. i just dont.. especially with the rumoured changes that Nigeria will be making for this game tomorrow.
     
  7. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    What most people seem to ignore is that many teams often play differently based on opposition. Iceland could very fancy their chances vs Nigeria and not play with such a defensive stance.
     
  8. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I know these are friendlies, but Iceland leaked 2 to Ghana, 3 to Norway, 3 to Peru, 3 to Mexico, 2 to Czech Rep, 2 to UAE, 3 to Norway, 2 to Greece, 2 to Denmark, 3 to USA.

    They've also conceeded 5 to France, 2 to Finland and so on.

    We also know Iceland has a first XI, but past that they are not very good. And Gudmundsson (Burnley) is out for Iceland, likely to replaced by 31 year old Skulason (Lokeren), who admittedly is actually Iceland's only good bench player.

    Even with a poor Nigeria selection it should be a competitive match and a lot will depend on who scores first (or whether or not anyone scores first).

    Plus if that selection is true Ebuehi at right back should be a revelation as will Etebo as a left winger. I have no idea how Simy will perform, while Ighalo has no business being there.
     
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  9. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No, you’re probably right. Maybe Iceland pulls out the win, Croatia rests and loses, and The round of 16 gives us Iceland denmark and France Croatia.
     
  10. Nico777

    Nico777 Member+

    Olympique de marseille
    Croatia
    Oct 19, 2017
    Croatia playing Iceland on tuesday evening will already know where spain portugal uruguay france etc are in the draw.
    It might have an influence in the way we play.
     
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  11. Jonathan Pimentel

    Aug 29, 2013
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Totally understand.

    I will be the 1st to admit i am not an Iceland supporter, nor do i follow there team with any sort of passion.

    To my understanding though, your right. They have a 1st 11 who are competitive, and the talent drops off after that..

    In relation to the goals conceded in the friendlies, thats exactly it. They are friendlies. Again, referencing to the fact i dont follow them.. i wouldnt know if Iceland took a serious approach to the games or not, if they did what most do.. and that is test players/formations/tactics/etc. and they got burned? no idea and im not going to get involved with that game.

    What i do know though, is that they contained Messi/Argentina (1 goal), contained Ronaldo/Portugal, topped a group with Croatia in WCQ and are not likely to face a player with the offensive talent in the Nigeria match as some of the ones they have already contained.

    I hope for a good game.. and as much as i was rooting for Nigeria prior to the start of the tournament, i have a dislike for Argentina and would rather see them out, then be given a life line with a Nigerian win. (I will be rooting for Senegal as my African team now, lol)
     
  12. Philip J. Fry

    Philip J. Fry Member+

    Mexico
    Jun 12, 2013
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    1009895758366216194 is not a valid tweet id
     
  13. Froboy69

    Froboy69 Member+

    Inter Milan
    Colombia
    Mar 25, 2011
    San Diego
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Seriously, I got off of work and saw the score and was shocked. Especially when Messi was playing.
     
  14. UnitsE3

    UnitsE3 Member

    Oct 21, 2017
    So you have high hopes for Peru against France, but you don't like it when Croatia smash Argentina three nil.
    Nice going, kid. There is nothing better than support your neighbors.
    Well, obviously too early to tell but it's really easy to see this Croatian side are a very fine team that could be a contender as well.

    And I'm not sure what Salah has to do with Group D, and what Salah can do here when everybody knows he still out injured for quite a while and not fully fit, plus bad luck to him that his team probably the weakest of his country side in ages for example not in any way comparing with that great team from 2008-2010 who relying more on a bunch of individuals.
     
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  15. UnitsE3

    UnitsE3 Member

    Oct 21, 2017
    Either way don't burn yourself, whether Nigeria won or lost. It's only a game. :D
     
  16. Froboy69

    Froboy69 Member+

    Inter Milan
    Colombia
    Mar 25, 2011
    San Diego
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    The world cup is only every 4 years; this tournament makes it not just some game.
     
  17. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    I think people are underestimating Iceland. Didn't they finish ahead of Croatia in the qualifiers? If Iceland beats Nigeria and ties a Croatia that will likely rest players, Croatia and Iceland will advance.
     
  18. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    I only now finished seeing the games on DVR and I'm very impressed with Croatia. I have no fewer than six good Croatian personal friends so I'm happy for them. I've been rooting for them from the beginning, and they are proving to be a resilient and organized bunch, with some very good players. Congratulations on advancing to the round of 16 in great style! :thumbsup:
     
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  19. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Yes, that was very good midfield play. Croatia will be hard to beat. Maybe they will go deeper than people expect.
     
  20. Bibooo

    Bibooo New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    May 26, 2018
    0-3
    Oh Argentina...
    Oh Messi....
    ‍♀️‍♀️‍♀️
    Very shocked...
     
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  21. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Which means that when Messi has the whole team organized around him (Barcelona) with players and manager adapting to him and enabling his plan A, he does well. When he comes out of his comfort zone, he doesn't.

    He lacks the leadership and resilience qualities of great players (yes, unlike Maradona who had more than enough), and I firmly believe that while he is is a great club player, his complete failure with the Argentine national team does not support the idea that he is the Greatest of All Time (for me, the greatest is great in any setting; you can't consider for greatest a player who is only good in one setting).

    I think that Cristiano Ronaldo is emphatically demonstrating, this Cup, that Messi is not even the greatest of *his* time, much less of all time. For the "all time" crowd, many others are greater than Messi, such as Maradona, Pele, Beckenbauer, and many others are at least as good as Messi, like fat Ronaldo, Zidane, Cristiano Ronaldo, Romario, etc.

    I've been harboring this opinion for a while, and people who defended Messi always used to say that he was still young and might still achieve success with the Argentine senior national team. Well, it is now very likely that if Argentina gets eliminated, Messi won't ever return to the national team, so this is it. If he doesn't perform a miracle in the last round of the group phase to save Argentina (he did perform one in the last round of the South American qualifiers), and doesn't then proceed to final victory, he will finish his career without ever winning a FIFA trophy with his senior national team (CR7 with the Euro got that part down pat).

    I can give a discount to players like George Best who was unfortunate enough to play for Northern Ireland rather than one of the big dogs, so it's not a stain in his career that he never won anything big with his national team. But Argentina???

    No, after what is looking like still another major tournament failure after today's game, I'm definitely ruling out all possibility of considering Messi the GOAT.

    This is not to put down Argentina. Better proof, I'm quoting Maradona as having a legitimate shot at the informal title of GOAT. But Messi? Nah. No energy, no stamina, no leadership, no mental toughness, no resilience...

    Just a great club player. Nothing less, nothing more.
     
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  22. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    Croatia, in my mind anyways, were always going to top the group. If it wasn't obvious before the tournament, then it's obvious they also stood a decent chance to win the cup. Certainly I'd rate their chances more than the other outsider/dark horses like Portugal or England. The basic fact of the matter is, with Modric and Rakitic, they have the two best midfielders in the world, and they have a good supporting cast. The CB is still a weak spot for them, but they can go all the way no less.

    Yes, Iceland finished ahead of Croatia in qualifying, but this is a different Croatian side. Under coach Dalic, who came in soon after Croatia lost to Iceland, they've come to life.

    Unfortunately, the opposite will be said of Argentina.

    Sampaoli is a very good coach, but his ideas at Chile didn't translate to this team. Sampaoli's failing was that he never found a system that worked for them. He either tried to emulate Chile or he put too much pressure on Messi to deliver. And so this team played without confidence and without enough ideas. The Argentinian FA should have done what Croatia did and fire their coach in qualifying. If they had, they might have spared themselves what they're witnessing now.

    There are other problems that plague Argentina that go beyond the coach. There is no big-bruiser-type forward who can come off the bench and muscle his way against defenses (someone along the lines of Carsten Junker or Emile Heskey for those of us old enough to remember them). They don't need anyone special. Just a big body who can add an extra dimension to Argentina's play. Having that presence would have helped open up play for Messi.
     
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  23. Froboy69

    Froboy69 Member+

    Inter Milan
    Colombia
    Mar 25, 2011
    San Diego
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    [​IMG]
    Yeah, Maradona wasn't pleased...
     
  24. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Very insightful post.
    But this is why Messi is not even close to being the GOAT.
    A player like Pele had all the ability, but was *also* the big-bruiser forward you are talking about - Pele was strong like a bull. Messi by comparison is a little midget. Neymar is a weakling. Cristiano Ronaldo does have the athleticism too. And while Diego Maradona wasn't as strong, he had the fire lit under him and the street smarts.

    Poor Messi. No comparison.
     
  25. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    Brasitusa, you make fine points, but consider this:

    The Messi we're seeing now is not much different to Ronaldo we've been seeing from before this tournament. Even Ronaldo struggled to do well at Euro 2016. He missed a penalty against Austria in his second match and he didn't score until the third game in, only to draw Hungary. They didn't win any games in the opening three matches. Portugal too drew to Iceland 1-1. He was injured in the final and I suspect a similar fate will befall him this year before the final takes place. His only really good games were against Hungary and Wales, not exactly world beaters like Spain. This tournament, we're seeing a different Ronaldo. One really high in confidence. He's having a special moment right now.
     
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