Post-match: Republic of Ireland

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by thedukeofsoccer, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just able to watch the game. It went pretty much as I expected. The young guys did quite well, IMHO, and contrary to the prevailing level of complaint here. I predicted a 1-1 draw. The young guys had enough good ideas and made enough effort to have won the game, but Weah missed his several chances. The most glaring error (apart from those on the stupid list) to me was by Sargent who did not one time his opportunity fairly late in the game. It takes practice against strong defenses to learn that one cannot tee up shots, but rather must capitalize on the ball as it is dealt AND do soquickly. The team will learn a lot against France: play quickly or die. It will be interesting to see who succeeds in that game. I'd like to see Sargent start because I think he can adapt to the speedier game, whereas Wood is past his sell by date (Rubin, too). The better young guys are thinking and playing faster. As for the final score, this was one of those games where it mattered virtually not at all after the first 3 subs by each team. As more newbies were placed in the mix, the game deteriorated per normal as the team shape was lost and players stopped supporting each other well. Almost always happens to the US because of the lack of depth in the squad. I look forward to watching the youngsters improve at a rapid rate over the next year as they begin to dominate and control the team's overall effort.
     
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  2. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    What game were you watching? Some of these "homer" comments are almost laughable. Folks over at Soccer House must be putting in the positive spin fix!
     
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  3. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Bookmark. I couldn't find the game on ESPN replay options on ESPN+ so any YouTube links would be appreciated.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think your problem is that guardado is already past it. HH mite be ok but the cmids just aren't there imo. Sad, because the front three are going to be aces in Vela, Chicha and Chooky. That;s the way it goes.
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    It took me three tries to get thru a second viewing of this one and that's the first time that happened to me. The first couple of times it was just so ugly that my mind revolted and wandered off to other stuff and then I realized I had missed the game.

    Finally I got stuck with laundry and dishwashing at the same time and I had a bottle of Bordeaux to relieve the pain and watched a second time.

    Excellency's ratings:

    I'm tired of the complaints: Yedlin, CCV, Miazga, V/fana, Weah, Trapp

    Why were they here: Hamid, Rubin, Wood

    I'm not really sure what I'm doing here: McKennie, Adams.
     
  6. Zacarías

    Zacarías Member

    Real Betis
    Spain
    Jul 19, 2017
    Sevilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    We need Guardado though, especially against Germany if we want any kind of respectable result! And we have Diego Lainez coming through, already playing for America, who is a mix of Lozano and Vela. Plus we have Tecatito, but other than that, we’re limited. I hate Giovanni Dos Santos haha
     
  7. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member+

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    I know Lainez, but who are other young Mexicans that are breaking through for first team playing time?
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    TheUnivision guys said "encuentra la puerta" which is translated literally as "he finds the door".
     
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  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Ummm, what?

    The U-20's beat:
    Myanmar 2-1
    New Zealand 4-0
    Senegal 1-0
    New Zealand 6-0
    13-1

    Regulation Draw's included:
    0-0 vs Serbia (lost on penalties)
    0-0 vs Colombia (won 1-0 in extra time)
    3-3 vs Ecuador
    1-1 vs Saudi Arabia
    1-1 vs Venezuela (lost 2-1 in extra time)

    6-6
    Regulation Defeats:
    0-3 vs Serbia


    So the U-20's have played 10 U-20 World Cup games in the past two tournaments and have lost in regulation ONCE. We are also registered a +9 GD in the two tournaments combined.

    And that's a bad thing?!?!

    And I would add that there's a near consensus that player selection and coaching with the U-20's is spotty at best, and this doesn't take into account that in 2015 we were missing one of our best forwards, and all of our forwards essentially went down with injury, or that in 2017 most would argue that either 4 of our best 6, or five of our best 7 or 8 players weren't released for the tournament and that Zelalem, a linchpin for the midfield, went down about 20 minutes into the tournament and despite all that, it wasn't until our fifth game in the quarters that we were finally beaten, and even in that game, we weren't beaten until Venezuela finally stuck the knife in in extra time, and not even in regulation.

    There's something comically absurd about your take. We have been dominated in our tournaments? Really? I'd say being beaten once in the past two tournaments combined in regulation (in a game we didn't need a result in), ONCE, in ten games, is kinda the opposite of being dominated.

    If you want to argue, it's how you play, not the score that matters, then I'd agree, and I'd argue that it says even more about our kids, if you think the coaching and tactical approach and understanding is garbage. If it's that bad, and yet we're still generating the results we are, then maybe the sky is indeed the limit with these kids, because they've accomplished a ton, apparently, in spite of talent, quality coaching, or any kind of tactical understanding of the game from the top down or bottom up.

    If you want to say we got dominated in the quarters? I'd agree. Look at the stat sheet and it shows that were basically manning the barricades and barely holding them off against Venezuela in particular. But it's also interesting to note that in both games, we were undermanned, missing a ton of key players against Venezuela including all but one of our best five or so players in '17, and missing any kind of forward element to speak of against Serbia in '15, and despite all that we pushed both games to extra time. If there's one thing that was missing in 2017, it was that spine, that steel, that toughness, that mentality that meant a team would have to pull out everything to beat us, to win, that we would give them nothing, and the way our U-20's played under Ramos, and this is a tribute to him and his players (regardless of how deeply I may question his selection and approach), exemplified that kind of soccer, just as our hex campaign in '17 was notable for the complete absence of this quality.

    It's time to move on.

    There is no middle. 1990-1996 failed (well, maybe there's hope for some '95' and '96's). We need to let it go and move on and sure, we should do so with some glue guys to help guide the way.
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Traditionally Mexico had weak defense, limited attack but great midfielders (going back to 90's). Ironically, they now have a great front line and an aging, questionable cmid corps altho I imagine HH can still put on a good show. Guardado just isn't the same guy he was when he won player of the year in Holland and who is his partner? I would have brought JoGo on a fast track and put him up top near the attackers. He could press high on defense and service the forwards on offense. But Mejico is too conservative for that.
     
  11. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    What a beautiful turn of phrase it captures my positivity with him, in the midst of some missed opportunities, perfectly. Right now, what excites me about him isn't his finishing obviously, its the fact that in the midst of a seemingly troglodyte, Jeff Fisher and John Fox have a love child level creativity from sarachan, he's still creating opportunity after opportunity after opportunity with his runs, vision, soccer IQ, and budding chemistry with his teammates. The finishing can come, the intuitive sense of where to be, where to run, where the opportunity can present itself is less teachable.

    I'm really, really excited about his potential.
     
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  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    He just has to keep doing what he is doing. I would have preferred him with Jamaica but he has some USA fixation so what can you do. But, yeah, Univision is a godsend if you know a little Spanish. I'd put them above the brits by a mile and I'd put the brits a mile above the Yanks when it comes to calling a game.
     
  13. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    [
    I have reasonably high hopes for Steffen, hasn't put it all together yet, but he's young, and he's shown me a lot. As much hope as I have had in Hamid, I've never seen the consistency you need, and I'd rather focus on Steffen, Bono, etc for now.

    As for Qatar, I think the hand wringing from some is a bit overwrought and one of the reasons is that which you've mentioned. Costa Rica seems likely to trend downward a bit like they did after '02 when they hit that pinnacle 15+ years ago, Honduras is a disaster, Panama reached its peak to me in '14-'15, but got the job done in '17, I don't expect them to be as good a few years from now. Yes we're a mess, and as others have mentioned, it's largely due to the 1990-1996 development debacle, but we've seen nothing but good news from '97's onwards (and the '95's were good as well), and I have a lot of faith in what's coming through.

    Two plus years from now we should have an idea of what our midfield will look like, and yes, the traditional #10 (not that it's so traditional anymore) isn't really there beyond maybe Carleton, but we have a ton of quality central midfielders, more than I've ever seen before, and we also have more wingers than I've ever seen before coming up. My chief concerns are at Forward where beyond Sargent, it's 1000% speculative (and I know some view Sargent as speculative, I don't), and at Goalie, where we have no clear answers. We have a ton of young quality players on the defensive end and in the midfield. I am more impressed with this group than any group since 2000-2003, and that group wasn't nearly as deep, and didn't have the same level of potential elite talent either.

    I'm very confident in the kids, I'm not at all confident in the coaching. I hope Earnie gets the hire right, the rumors aren't really filling me with confidence.
     
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  14. Zacarías

    Zacarías Member

    Real Betis
    Spain
    Jul 19, 2017
    Sevilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I’d say J Dos Santos, even though I don’t want him or his brother anywhere near the squad. I hope sack Osorio after Russia! Maybe you guys can hire him once he leaves Mexico after we lose to Brazil again (fingers crossed we make out of the group)
     
  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    In regards to the defense, to me one of the problems in recent years has been the lack of clarity on the starting center back pairing, the lack of clarity about left back, and even Yedlin. I would prefer to get more reasonable takes from people here on the performance of the defense with the understanding that thus far everything on defense has been experimentation with very young players that never really play together at all for the US.

    People making permanent judgments about Carter-Vickers, Miazga, or anyone else on defense are to my mind, being insanely rash. A core component with a defense is familiarity, comfort zone and experience playing together. That only comes with time and repetition. While some of these guys played together a bit with youth national teams, it was spotty, and rare, especially with guys born and raised in England who wouldn't have come up in our youth development system but rather would have just been called in for tournaments. Our young defense needs time to gel. Time to play together, time to get comfortable with one another and know how one another play and communicate. That doesn't come with a camp, or a youth tournament three years ago, that comes from many camps, many games, and many tournaments played together. I fully expect guys like Miazga and Carter Vickers et all to look much, much, much better two years from now, when they've been called in to a dozen or more camps and international dates, practices and played together for hours upon hours. Right now they just flat out don't have the experience of playing together. Then add in shakey/erratic goalkeeping, and you have a recipe for a disaster (which it actually wasn't, wasn't great, but 1-2 isn't a disaster either).

    Give these guys time. I don't know what the center back pairing will be 2 or 3 years from now, or what fullbacks we'll start, but I'm confident we have more options now than we've ever had before, and while none of these guys may be Eddie Pope, they're still better than about 95% of the options that have come up since we gave Pope his first cap. We have a lot of talent and depth on the defensive end. Just give them time. They'll show it soon enough.
     
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  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Steffen. Pinning the bulk of my hopes on Steffen. Outstanding at the U-20 World Cup in 2015, botched transfer to Europe (based on my limited knowledge, all I know is he came back), then looked very good last year, especially in the fall, in MLS, I have big hopes for him. Hamid, for me, is a lost cause till he shows me he's different. Not sure about Bono, and Horvath's confidence must be in the toilet at this point. I see Yarborough as just depth, and one of many, but who knows, it's not like there's a definitive answer in place, I just think Steffen is the best talent we've produced at the position at his age level in at least a decade.
     
  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I'd like to hire Almeyda but I think Mexico will hire him and USA will hire Berhalter who is an idiot.
     
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  18. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McKennie teed up a shot. Wood teed up a shot. Weah teed up a shot. Adams teed up a shot. 2 of those 4 forced saves by the keeper and two could’ve but Weah sailed it and Rubin saved Adams’ shot for the Irish keeper.

    I agree with most of what you said but it always raises my eyebrows that after a match, everyone always points to the offensive chances that were missed and not the defensive miscues. No one is talking about De La Torre trying to dribble out of his own end and giving the ball away at midfield twice in the last 10-15 minutes, which allowed Ireland to dominate possession and keep the offensive pressure on the last part of the game. Or that Shaq Moore inexplicably tried to clear a ball instead of possessing it and trusting his teammates to control it to break the pressure. Of course, that one led to the winning goal.

    Or maybe that was a horribly waited and located pass. Either way, he was showing nerves and it eventually led to Ireland’s goal. And either way, like you said, the game deteriorated as subs came on.
     
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  19. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    The silver lining in that game is now it is clear that Dave S WILL be an interim manager only.
     
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  20. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Haven't seen the game yet but love this point. Part of the problem is the our media are simplistic and really soccer guys. Defense is suppose to stop scorers and forwards are suppose to score soa 2-1 score line means our defense and Kepler need to improve and 1 goal meant Wood had a good game. There is a real lack of understanding of how the midfield are the catalyst for an attack and the forwards the conduit unless you are playing long ball. In defense they are to help shield the CBs and support the FBs. But you have to know what your looking at.
     
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  21. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mentioned the Sargent failure-to-strike-quickly as an obvious exemplar of the general problem. He could not score that shot without taking it Premier League fast, i.e., with no second touch or any hesitation whatsoever. I also mentioned it because, from what I have seen and read about him, he will learn and do what needs to be done. He seems to be a smart player positioning himself well to receive and return passes confidently around the PA. He combines well and plays like someone 3 yrs older. Whether that ultimately translates into more goals for the team remains to be seen.

    Re Shaq Moore, he seemed a bundle of nerves. It is interesting, for what is worth, that he connected on 75% of his passes (3 of 4) which was effectively the same as Yedlin (22 of 30; 73%). Yedlin did not play as if he really cared.

    Re dribbling out of the defensive end - that was troublesome because the guys seemed unable or unwilling to make the necessary short triangle combination passes necessary to move the ball out of the back while maintaining possession. They will have a terrible time against France if there is no improvement there.
     
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  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Maybe we need an English coach since we seem to have the same media as in England. Except for a few examples, they will parrot the idea, "friendlies don't matter" or "Bolivia was poor"; but then their coverage is either all about the result (like they are writing up an NFL game) or everything they take away is clouded by the result. Same impulse that had the whole American Fox crew picking the USA over Argentina in Copa, or taking a draw on the road versus Panama or Honduras when we played horrible as a good result. Just like England where they piss on their team for three years, see some good results in pre-WC friendlies, then hype the team up beyond all reason.

    What did people expect sending out a U23 team versus a team with 9 EPL players? 1-1 when the subs started is actually a good result. Maybe it wasn't indicative of the balance of play exactly, but it should have been 1-0 without a GK error and the USA goal was no flukey.

    0-18' the USA had major problems building out from the back. The 4-1-4-1 they were playing was too simplistic and it was easy for Ireland to defend. However, McKennie and Adams turned some balls over but there was no Pulisic breaking. Weah did a bit and Yedlin did a bit, but most attacks stalled.

    18'-28' The USA actually dominated. They figured out how to get the ball forward and McKennie and Adams and Trapp were turning the ball over and getting it forward. USA is on the front foot against a better team.

    28'-HT Both teams were good here with the USA getting a well worked set piece goal. Wood played much better overall than Paraguay; but that is a low bar. He now has what, 5 goals in his last 9 USA games? Pretty good production from a player everyone on here is ready to never call again.

    HT-Subs Ireland made adjustments that got them through and around McKennie and Adams. McKennie was also told to add being a #10 to what he was doing; which emptied his tank around the 80th minute. Ireland scored on a GK bobble. Sarachan couldn't, wouldn't, or decided not to make any adjustments to counter what Ireland were doing and for the first time coached like he had no stick in the game other than to fill out the lineup card and tell guys to get off the bench. Much of the Irish adjustment was funneling the ball to Villafanna who would panic and punt it up to the Irish CBs and the ball would be coming back our way. Yedlin also was poor, trying difficult passes that had low probability of success.

    Subs-FT This was all over with mostly Ireland in control. I think this is the part of the game that people remember, being the last thing they saw. Ireland basically did what JK would do, make subs to win and keep his best players out there, and get the result because the other team was ready to go home. They score when LDLT naively leaves his man to try and outsmart the best player out there (Coleman) who toasts him and it leads to Miazga 1 v 2 in his own 6 yard box pretty much. Whatever, any goal with LDLT on the field really doesn't count, does it? Haha.

    Their A team beat our U23 B team, 2-1 in their own stadium. Not a bad result, but the result doesn't matter. Before O'Neill outcoached Sarachan, the USA was doing ok. Doing ok is pretty good given that Ireland had more talent out there by far. It is only this weird thing with American media and some fans that expect the USMNT's U23 B team to win in Ireland agains their A team.

    I think we have learned all we can with the Sarachan 4-1-4-1. It is a problem in the build out, and when we turn them over, there is nothing (with this roster) really threatening.

    If you just watch the first half, after the team settles down after 15', everyone plays pretty well except Villafana and Hamid. Trapp was better on second viewing, Adams isn't perfect but he is holding his own and making some plays. As much as people crap on Pulisic vs. Bolivia, he was always an outlet after a turnover. In this game, and Ireland had mostly EPL players, turnovers mostly didn't lead to much.

    Weah is better than I thought.

    McKennie got rid of the cornrows and the silly fouls and played much more in control and was still very effective.

    Everyone is expecting the USA to lose 6-0 to France, and they might. But I would bet, even if they lost 2-0, it would be seen as a bad result by our media and most fans. Even media guys who this week will expect a 6-0 defeat will talk about a 2-0 result as a failure. If you look at our schedule coming up the rest of this year, we are going to lose and lose often. We will see who can really analyze things (hopefully the new coach can) and who just writes boxscore write-ups.
     
  23. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I fell asleep watching the game, myself.

    I just don't get what sarachan is doing.

    he has to know that a midfield of trapp-adams-mckennie will not be very creative.

    The lineup and approach to the game was very much a "lets lose by a close score" imo.

    There's just way too many players in the front 6 for the USMNT who have no chance of scoring or creating....i'm tired of the uber-conservatism. IT's BORING!!!!!!

    it's a meaningless match...go for it. (even if it was an officail match, i would say go for it, too...but that's just me).

    Hopefully for sarachan's sake he doesnt actually beleive he might get the full-time job by playing ugly defense heavy lineups and losing without playing attractively....cuz he definitely won't.
     
  24. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    "Go for it, express yourselves!" seems to work well enough as all the tactical stuff needed in friendlies.
     
  25. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    It is a British holdover word. We use it in rugby too. We use the word capped and caps and I don't guys still get caps, beyond their first one.
     

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