The things we hear returns - 2018 edition

Discussion in 'Referee' started by wh1s+1eR, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Law5 makes a great point, your pregame should be different depending on who you're working with. I worked with a 2nd year referee the other day, who was not only new, but very quiet and timid, didn't give a lot of verbal or non-verbal feedback, and so I had to go into pretty mundane stuff just to make sure they knew the foundational stuff I was assuming. I don't actually work with many new referees anymore, so those things are important, but as Law5 said, most of the pregame stuff should be (1) weird things that you do (2) things you expect of them (3) stuff that they wouldn't get from the law book.
     
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  2. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Hmm at the highest level they usually have premade scouting reports. It tells them a large volume of information about the teams, formation, style of play etc. I know with a lot of certainty that Kari would have a unique pregame for each game. It was mostly a game plan and very situatonal based on the tactics. I.E. "Sweden v. France. Louisa necib has a habit of taking free kicks on the right side of the pitch for a cross. We can assume it's a cross most of the time unless someone runs into the wall.. then they'll play short with Necib running on. Expect to see Georges come up for corners and set-piece crosses. She behaves for the most part." Etc etc.
     
  3. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    A very good description, frankieboylampard. So, if you or someone on your crew has done one or both teams lately, those with experience need to speak up about what to expect may happen. Our largest men's league posts on-line the number and reason for all cards received by players during the current and previous seasons. The teams in each division are listed, with their record, including the scores (what was the score the last time these teams played?), each team's roster is only a click away and the roster shows how many cards, of each color and the reason for the card, each player has received and even, for some teams, who has scored how many goals. You can also go back to the team's history for at least five years and see who got cards last season as well. The wise referee (and even AR) will check this information before the game. I also look for who on each team I know, whether positively or negatively. It helps me remember in advance which personality to bring to the game and that player.
     
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  4. RespectTheGame

    May 6, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I would pay money to hear what is said in a 2 hour pregame. It's counterintuitive - at the highest levels you expect that your partners know what they should be doing and most likely you have comms which reduces the need for clearing up ambiguous situation mechanics that might be misconstrued. I assume it's more about anticipated hot spots and player interactions than actual "you do this and I do this" stuff.

    I've never been privy to a national/FIFA level pregame, would actually love to hear one sometime.
     
  5. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    I asked Kermit Quisenberry during a recert clinic once about their pregame. He said it was often over breakfast the morning of, and it usually takes around an hour. Mainly about player tendencies, etc. He didn't say, but I assume "stay with the second to last defender" wasn't mentioned. ;)
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do know PRO has a video guy who provides the ARs with clips of each team's offside decisions (on both ends of the field) to allow them to pick out tendencies from players/systems.
     
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  7. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I mean I don't think Kari's was 2 hrs. She talked about getting down to 1.5 hrs. But there are tons of stuff to talk about. You are 100% correct to say it's about interactions between players, matchups between players, implications for the match. Ive been in pregames w/ higher level guys and at times it's talking about the stuff they are working on. I.E. "I am working on getting ahead of the ball, for a higher starting position". Like I alluded to above they talk about all "expected" starting 11 + 7 subs. And all potential matchups. I imagine there may be a 20 minute standard operating procedure chat. But everything else is going to take some time. Also, you mentioned comms. shoot I worked a USL game last year and we had a 25 min conversation about comms. And we were all experience officials and all from the same state.
    Part of pregames design is to get you mentally prepared for the match.
     
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  8. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a great point. You need to be ready to deal with something match changing in the first 15 seconds and to get there, you need to mentally warm-up before hand.
     
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  9. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    "Hiya coach, I'm your referee tonight." "Great. I know I've got a real soccer guy when I see those Copas."

    Nice to get off on the right foot. :whistling:
     
  10. Spencedawgmillionaire

    Mar 2, 2017
    Belleville, ILLLLLLLLINOIZE
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Before a U13 girls' match:

    "Afternoon, Coach!"
    *enthusiastically* "HI!"
    "I'm glad to see we're all in great moods today."
    "Well, you did our U10 and U12 games last session and when we saw you were going to be our head referee, everyone got really excited."


    Is there a better way to meet a coach pre-game?
     
  11. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    U10B with buildout line. GK forgets and punts the ball from inside the goal area. I point to the spot on the GAL where to take the IFK. I tell the defenders they can make a wall on the GL. Wall is set and I tell the kicker “on my whistle.” He looks at me and says “can I have ten?”
     
  12. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    I have a question regarding carding coaches in high school. So there were many factors that lead up to this point, including me suggesting to the center that he give the coach a yellow card after some pretty blatant dissent at half time. My question stems from what happened after in the second half.

    During the run of play, the center missed a foul, not a huge one, and the ball goes to his player and she takes a wild shot. The coach complains to him and then tells me that he will be contacting the area assignor and the SRA about our performance. This warrants at least a caution, and I’m not too far off from thinking this is a threat and worthy of a send off. The ball satyed in play and quickly went to the opposite side of the field from me and stayed there for a while, not leaving play for a few minutes. Is this a situation where I should have gotten the centers attention immediately or wait until it’s out on the opposite corner and try to get his attention?

    I did contact the assignor because in addition to all of that, the coach approached us after the game and said we would never work another game for his school again. No cards were given. Our assignor did say that warranted a red card and I agree with that sentiment.

    Needless to say, might be a bit awkward when I have them again next week :whistling:
     
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  13. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would plan my ask, tell (Caution), dismiss (red). You may not need them, but thinking how it might go should help.
     
  14. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #139 frankieboylampard, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
    I would most definitely wait until a stoppage and then insist the referee goes over there to deal with the behavior. Of course depending on the pregame it could be a dismissal on my information, it could be a tell (caution) or simply an ask.

    Does your state HS require you to be USSF certified?

    I would call the referee over as far away from his position as possible. I would make him conference with me. For two reasons 1) I'm assuming the game is high temp and this would allow the game to cool off a bit 2) It would force the referee to do something. The players, coaches, and spectators would expect the referee to do something after the conference.

    I can see myself as an AR saying "coach we don't need you for this game. If you want to continue here this behavior needs to change." LoL
     
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  15. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Yes and ... (that's what they're trying to teach me to say at work instead of "Yes, but ...")

    Try not to carry too much of that with you into next week's game. Every game is a fresh start. Be ready to manage the coach appropriately, but not too ready.
     
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  16. RespectTheGame

    May 6, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Our HS association has specifically stated that any threat of reporting your performance or that you won't be coming back to that HS is irresponsible behavior and an immediate red card.

    Our coaches get to rate us after each game and those ratings are used (in part) to generate post season assignments. So they have a chance to voice their feeling (we on the other hand for some reason are not able to give feedback to coaches....). Making a threat is nothing other than intimidation.
     
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  17. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    NFHS rules do not have the concept of "irresponsible behavior" as the criteria for sending off/dismissing a coach. In order to give a coach a red card in high school, they must be guilty of an offense that would get a player also sent off.

    I could see a threat that 'you'll never work here again' as worthy of a send off for "taunting - use of word or act to incite or degrade an opposing player, coach, referee or other individual." I'm not sure I'd think of it as offinabus language, per se or, at least, I think taunting is a more defensible reason.

    It sounds like the center lacked courage to give the card that the coach was requesting he receive. I was AR for a less experienced referee on a U-15 girls game at a tournament. He wasn't calling anything. In fact, I don't recall that he had a single foul in the first half, which had the game several times at the point of confrontations that almost turned into fist fights. The other AR and I told him, at halftime, 'you'd better tighten things up or we're going to have a fight.' He responded, "Oh, I can't impose myself on the game." "You'd better impose yourself or the game will turn into a brawl." He was a little better in the second half, enough to keep the lid on the pot, but he instantly went on my list of referees I won't work with. (And, thankfully, he's been out of refereeing for a while now.)
     
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  18. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been given that same instruction from one of my college assigners. Any threat like that, and he expects nothing less than a red card ejection.
     
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  19. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    "The ref just fell over."

    Text from my son coaching his middle school team. Turns out the guy caught a heel backpedaling and went down hard (exactly like I did the other night in my brand new Team Mundials), hard enough to dislocate his shoulder. Doc on the scene offered to reset it for him, but he opted to wait for an ambulance.

    They restarted after a 20-minute delay when the crew for the next game showed up.
     
  20. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least you didn't post this in the Best stories!
     
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  21. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Felt a little bad about posting it at all -- but I identified with it too strongly not to.
     
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  22. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    My sarcasm game was strong during my Men's center yesterday.
    After a throw in call, "You have to look at the play!" "Yeah, because I'm running around with my eyes closed."
     
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  23. Spencedawgmillionaire

    Mar 2, 2017
    Belleville, ILLLLLLLLINOIZE
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    U16 boys (my first U16 boys match at CR):
    Defender gets ever-so-slightly beaten, but is shoulder-to-shoulder with attacking player entering the PA, defensive player goes down and what I see is players battling and the defender just tripping over his-own/the other players feet. Attacking player stays up, shoot and scores.

    Defender loudly asks why he's allowed to push him down, I respond "that's not what I saw."
    Attacking player: "He pushed me down, he's allowed to do that?"
    I respond again "That's not how I saw it."
    Player: DID YOU SEE THE GOAL???

    *sigh* Come here, this caution is for dissent. COACH! He's got to come off.


    Not my first YC for dissent, but my first for a kid old enough to know better. (The other was U12 and would NOT shut up, coach's kid and obviously learned it from him.)
     
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  24. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Varsity girl on a ball in touch: "It never touched me! It was off her!" "Not the way I saw it, sorry, I gotta call what I see." "OK, you got it right, I just thought it was worth a try."

    "Dang, I thought you already had your yellow out." Varsity boy on seeing me walk onto field at start of game with my yellow Fox 40 dangling from my hand.
     
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  25. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    That is a slight irritant to me. White is up 2-1 with less than ten minutes to play. Three times in those ten minutes Blue gets called for offside.Same girl all three times. When I blow the whistle and say loudly "Offside" this same girl who was offside looks at me with her palms up. All three times. After the game she and the rest of the team come by to fistbump us. She said "Good job, ref. I was off every time." I said "Then why do this?" As I mimicked her palm up motion. She said "I have to try to change your mind."
     
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