The things we hear returns - 2018 edition

Discussion in 'Referee' started by wh1s+1eR, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Would you give a red in a Youth game for this?
     
  2. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Absolutely!

    After the game? Sneering, snide, mocking "questions" directed by a teenager to an adult? "Mr. Referee, I don't want to play next week so please give me a red card."
     
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  3. seattlebeach

    seattlebeach Member

    AFC Richmond
    May 11, 2015
    Not Seattle, Not Beach
    After a whistle: "Ref, that was a fair foul."
     
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  4. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    "Things I hear" is always problematic for me as my name is mostly accurate - I am over 50% deaf. And yesterday, one of my ears was totally blocked so I was way worse than usual. I can hear a person from 5 feet, but anything else is background noise.

    Anyways, I'm doing a U19 college showcase game yesterday and feeling pretty good so far. Had a yellow for reckless on one kid on blue who was going 80 while everyone else was going 60. Good player, but a bowling ball and got 3-4 foul calls.

    Then I waved off a blue goal on a rebound from the GK for offside which I saw even before the AR got flag up. And then shortly after, had a PK call against same blue kid who woulda scored for an obvious foul in the box.

    So I'm heading to side at the half and a coach of red team comes up to me and says, you know, you can throw those parents out if you want. I asked him, what parents? He says, the ones who are screaming about all your calls. I told him it was news to me and thank you for your concern.

    So I head to the porta pottie and sure enough, here comes an irate dad. He gives me about 10 seconds of why don't you call it both ways blah blah blah. I told him to walk away or I would invite him to drive away. He says, I'm heading to my car, I can't watch this anymore. And then I think he banged on the porta pottie after I went in, but he was gone when I came out.
     
  5. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I had O-40 men's player trying to tell me that it's a direct free kick if the hand ball is deliberate and indirect if it isn't. Oy. I hope that, after probably 30 years of playing, he knows the rule now.
     
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  6. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004

    I have talked to many a college coach during my showcase appearances. If only the parents knew how much their behavior influences these coaches. They will move on in a heartbeat if they think a parent is going to be problematic.
     
  7. GearRef

    GearRef Member

    Manchester City
    United States
    Jan 2, 2018
    La Grange Park, Illinois
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4v4 tourney. This is the same club playing each other, just split up. Same coach, who seems to know what he’s doing, is coaching both teams. One team takes a shot, and it hits off of the post of the mini goals we use (Pugg goals) and goes over the goal line. I signal goal kick, and the coach starts complaining that if the goal were “properly positioned” it would have been a goal. I say “sorry coach but the ball did not go in, so it’s a goal kick.” He then says to the team that just got “scored on” “come on girls, kickoff!” I said, coach that’s not how it works, it’s a goal kick. I tell the girls this. He says “oh you’re going to stick to your call? Okay then” and proceeds to rant to his bench.
     
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  8. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    [vent]

    Your guy must have been the first cousin of the three knuckleheads I had behind me as AR1 in last night's varsity boys game. Oy.

    These guys started up in the first minute and didn't let up until after the final whistle. It was a constant stream of comments, exclamations, and howls of outrage for 80 long minutes. The weirdest part is was a pretty good game, a little physical but no big deal, and I thought my center was doing a good job (except for one fatal flaw).

    Worse, they didn't seem to know the game or the rules. "You can't sub on a corner kick." :rolleyes: "You can't sub on a goal kick." :eek: Worse yet, they seemed to honestly think that any time an opponent touched one of their players, it was a foul. "He's got his hands on his back! Are you blind?" Once when they got a foul called their way, an assistant complained that I hadn't raised my flag on it. They also, classically, thought they could second-guess offside from eighty yards away.

    The center's fatal flaw was he let them get away with it, which made for a long miserable 80 minutes for me. He did talk to them at the half, and I told him he was going to have to card one of them in the second, but it didn't happen.

    I tried to talk them down, and in the second half I got a little (well, OK, a lot) testy with them, telling them "I have to tell you guys, this is the most irresponsible display by coaches I've seen all season." They quieted down for about twenty minutes after that, but ultimately tuned back up.

    At one point (yes, mea culpa, I was bad), I said, "Coach, did your assistants not attend a rules clinic?" "Yes we did!" "Well they must have slept through it." "I thought you weren't supposed to insult coaches." o_O

    Ultimately I decided the one really and truly great thing about a dual is you can caution and send the bozos yourself and don't have to stand there wishing your center would come and rescue you.

    Of course, the constant harangue from the coaches got both the players and the fans worked up. The site admin walked us to our cars afterwards and headed off one "I'm a referee, and I just want to ask a question" idiot.

    And yes, I spoke with the (young) center about it after the game.

    Anything I could have done differently?

    [/vent]

    Happy St. Paddy's Day all.
     
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  9. RespectTheGame

    May 6, 2013
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I wouldn't dare to give you advice, my friend, but personally after warning and further discussion -I- would be standing at attention after a stop in play and then proceed to tell my center either one of these guys go, or I go..... "are you blind" is the end of the road for you coach.
     
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  10. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Yeah, which is really why I'm still fretting over it. At the time it seemed like I was doing all I could reasonably do, but in retrospect I feel like I should have done something more or differently.

    But now I'm remembering I had something very similar (although not quite as protracted) happen last year, and it was the same situation of a young center unwilling or unable to do what needed to be done.
     
  11. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    "I'm coaching, here."

    I'm AR1. AR2 and CR show up five minutes before game time because they were coming off other games. I check in the red team with no issue. I go to check in the black team and the coach says "I'm coaching, here. You can wait." A few minutes later, he gets done and I am able to check in the players.

    When my crewmates show up, I tell the CR about the coach. Ten minutes in on a goal kick, black coach makes five steps on the field talking to his players. I tell him he needs to step off the field and he says "I'm coaching, here." Keeper sends the ball in play but the coach is still a step on the field. I say "Coach, the ball is in play. Please go back to your technical area." He glared at me, but did step off the field. More than a half dozen times, he would take one step on the field to coach, but get off the field before the ball is back in play. Like he is showing his players how far he can get away with something. :mad:
     
  12. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    What a moron.
     
  13. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    I am coaching here. Sounds like The Dude.

    Those guys drive me nuts, too.
    Probably worse during March Madness ...
    I always assume they are taking cues from the college basketball coaches they see walking on the court on TV.
     
  14. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Ratso came to mind for me. But I'm old.
     
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  15. Spencedawgmillionaire

    Mar 2, 2017
    Belleville, ILLLLLLLLINOIZE
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    I'm only two games into H.S. career and I need to ask; coach on the field of play at any time other than tending to injured player, let alone while ball is in play and being told to get off and with his response...isn't that a YC? I mean, it's full-on dissent, (if my mind's eye is adding the nastiness to it correctly).
    I'm legit asking, because in my youth league, as an AR with that behavior, I'm stopping play, calling my CR over and telling him "this guy needs to be "Told".
     
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  16. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    My state SDI instructions in USSF youth leagues are clear: Coach on field uninvited during game to dissent = dismissal. I don't recall any similar explicit instruction for NFHS, however.
     
  17. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    You might consider being a little flexible, particularly at the beginning of the season. Some of these coaches are coming from pointy ball where having coaches several yards out on the field is normal (at least in my area). A friendly reminder to the coach that in soccer the they can't enter the field without permission of the referee (the Ask) might improve your future interactions. That said, if they are truly creating a problem or making a spectacle of themselves, you are perfectly justified to jump straight to tell/yellow. YHTBT applies as usual.
     
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  18. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    NFHS 12.8.1 A player, coach or bench personnel shall be cautioned (yellow card) for a. entering or leaving the field of play (except through the normal course of play) without the permission of an official.

    Note that coaches are covered by these provisions, unlike IFAB.

    From the original post, it is clear to me that this guy is just trying to assert his superiority to a mere referee, so he gets to see the yellow card. Checkmate!
     
  19. dadman

    dadman Yo soy un papa

    DC United
    United States
    Apr 13, 2001
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Everyboy's talkin' at me,
    I can't hear a word they're saying...

    :)
     
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  20. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    A few years ago in a HS playoff game, a go ahead goal is scored in OT after the 8th player that game had gone down with a cramp and I didn't stop play. I look up the field after the goal is scored and the coach of the now losing team is 10 yards onto the field and across the half way line. I walk 30 yards with a red card in my hand. I get there and say "Coach, what are you doing out here." The coach says, "But my player was down!" "Coach, I saw him go down after the ball was kicked. I still can't have you out here." At which point I put away the red, give the yellow card to many apologies.
    That coach hustled to find me after the game before we left the field to thank me then flagged down the ref team car to say thanks again, and he had lost.
     
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  21. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The question I would ask is, what did you guys cover in your pregame about this type of situation? My assumption is that it didn't sound like you guys were on the same page about what you were supposed to do or what the referee expected. As an AR, sometimes you have to lead the conversation in a pregame that's underdeveloped. When the referee seems "done", simply asking "When do you need to be involved with irresponsible behavior in the technical area?", "How do you want me to communicate to a coach that his behavior is becoming unignorably irresponsible?" etc...

    As for the ignorant questions, if they seem like they actually want a response, that's a good opportunity to get them back on your side "Oh! Yeah, coach, actually you are permitted to substitute on a corner kick. If they're subbing on theirs, you also can sub." etc. (it sounds like this was an NFHS match). I would, however, refrain from just telling them "you're being irresponsible" without any kind of talk in pregame about what the referee expects. That and the sleeping comment both have potential to incense them significantly.

    Ultimately it just sounds like you need to talk about it in pregame. If your referee doesn't bring it up, make sure to bring it up.
     
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  22. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    That's good advice. I AR so little, especially in HS season, that I tend to forget some basics like this.

    As for talking with the coaches, yes, I will always answer genuine questions and frequently do. These were not questions but loudly shouted complaints, an unrelenting barrage of them. I just finally got fed up. If I'd had a whistle they wouldn't have gotten two minutes like that.
     
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  23. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    A lot of post-game discussions result in someone saying "You should have covered that in the pre-game." And we all pretty much know that it isn't going to get covered.

    When my daughter was doing the highest level games, with the same two other members of the crew, the pre-game was usually done the previous day and it took about two hours, yes, longer than the game itself, and the crew had already done many games together. But that isn't the world where the rest of us live. We don't have that much time for a pre-game and many of us, frankly, aren't interested.

    I was AR at Veterans Cup one time for the O-60 men's final, essentially the national championship game for that age group. The assignor, in his infinite wisdom, put a kid of about 18 in the center and two 'mature' AR's on the line. The kid starts droning on about "stay with the second last defender or the ball...." The other AR asks him, "Do you know what grade I am?" He helpfully pointed to his National Emeritus Referee badge. The kid kind of nodded. "Do you know what grade he is?" pointing to my State Referee badge. When the kid nodded again, the other AR said, "That isn't what you say to us. This is what you talk about." And he launched into the important stuff for a game like we were about to do.

    For me, the important stuff to actually cover are what and how to communicate when a goal is apparently scored or might have been scored, how the crew should each handle a fight, mass confrontation or game disrepute, and how to handle dissent from the benches and, specifically, does the AR do ask, does the AR or the R do tell and what's the R going to do when the AR calls them over. These are the kind of things that will be much more of black mark against the crew than position for offside or subs that are handled a little casually.
     
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  24. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    One of my friends and I officiate futsal together on a regular basis. This year, we did 40+ men's games together. You could say that we know each other's habits, etc quite well.

    We were asked to do some U16B games in a nearby big city (~2.5hrs away). We got there and found out that we were being assessed and had to do a pre-game with the assessors present, etc. about 15 minutes after our official arrival.

    We spent most of that 15 minutes talking about what we were going to pre-game (all of which was "old hat" to us, but obviously totally new, uncharted territory to the assessors).

    The assessor told us post-game that it was the best pre-game he'd heard in a long time, hitting all of the non-Law book stuff that needs to be discussed.

    In short -- I'm sure that much of that two hour conversation your daughter and her crew had was essentially the same stuff each and every time they had that conversation, and it's funny how routine some of it feels when you work together as a team.

    In shorter: The trip to the point I was trying to make was far longer than the point itself. :)
     
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  25. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    Excellent, thanks. I always cover 1 whether I'm center or AR, always cover 2 when I'm center, and often but not always cover 3 when I'm center but rarely if ever on my own motion when I'm AR. I will change my practice.
     
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