Big Soccer members World Best Player of the Year 1950-2009

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by couper99, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Giving again clarification about my own estimations for 1st places for the second 20 years I've covered (having done the first one earlier), with all world players considered, rather than just European player for an original Ballon d'Or style vote like I was concentrating on for my own exercise....

    1997/98 - Ronaldo, 1998 - Ronaldo
    1998/99 Rivaldo, 1999 - Luis Figo
    1999/00 - Luis Figo, 2000 - Luis Figo
    2000/01 - Luis Figo, 2001 - Luis Figo
    2001/02 - Zinedine Zidane, 2002 - Zinedine Zidane
    2002/03 - Zinedine Zidane, 2003 - Thierry Henry
    2003/04 - Thierry Henry, 2004 - Ronaldinho
    2004/05 - Ronaldinho, 2005 - Ronaldinho
    2005/06 - Ronaldinho, 2006 - Kaka
    2006/07 - Kaka, 2007 - Kaka
    2007/08 - Cristiano Ronaldo, 2008 - Cristiano Ronaldo
    2008/09 - Lionel Messi, 2009 - Lionel Messi
    2009/10 - Lionel Messi, 2010 - Lionel Messi
    2010/11 - Lionel Messi, 2011 - Lionel Messi
    2011/12 - Lionel Messi, 2012 - Lionel Messi
    2012/13 - Lionel Messi, 2013 - Cristiano Ronaldo
    2013/14 - Cristiano Ronaldo, 2014 - Arjen Robben
    2014/15 - Lionel Messi, 2015 - Lionel Messi
    2015/16 - Neymar, 2016 - Lionel Messi
    2016/17 - Lionel Messi, 2017 - Lionel Messi
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    My annual points (2010-2017)
    Cristiano Ronaldo - 27
    Eden Hazard - 11
    Andres Iniesta - 10
    Kevin De Bruyne - 9
    Arjen Robben - 9

    Xavi - 9
    Mesut Ozil - 7
    Franck Ribery - 6
    Antoine Griezmann - 5
    Andrea Pirlo - 5
    Wesley Sneijder - 4
    Robert Lewandowski - 3
    Christian Eriksen - 2

    Zlatan Ibrahimovic - 2
    N'Golo Kante - 2
    Toni Kroos - 2

    Paul Pogba - 2
    Xabi Alonso - 1
    Harry Kane - 1
    Juan Mata - 1
    Manuel Neuer - 1

    Marco Reus - 1

    My seasonal points (2009/10 to 2016/17)
    Cristiano Ronaldo - 31
    Xavi - 11

    Eden Hazard - 10
    Antoine Griezmann - 8
    Andres Iniesta - 8
    Andrea Pirlo - 8
    Franck Ribery - 7

    Arjen Robben - 7
    Mesut Ozil - 5
    Wesley Sneijder - 5
    Paul Pogba - 4
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic - 3

    Robert Lewandowski - 3
    Gareth Bale - 2
    Kevin De Bruyne - 2
    David De Gea - 1
    Christian Eriksen - 1
    Cesc Fabregas - 1
    Dimitri Payet - 1
    Gerard Pique - 1
    Marco Reus - 1
     
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  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #1628 PDG1978, Feb 19, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
    I think I'm right in saying finishing this analysis will complete everything I had in mind regarding season to calendar year comparisons....

    So moving on to the era of UEFA's Best Player in Europe award (now the Mens Player of the Year award, and titled as such for 2016/17, a year in which FIFA also held votes for best Champions League players by position which harks back slightly to the positional Club Footballer awards from before 2010/11):

    2010/11 - Lionel Messi - In ESM Team of the Year with 8 monthly inclusions (no player had as many) from 70 total votes (no player had as many).

    2011/12 - Andres Iniesta - Not in ESM Team of the Year, having 1 monthly inclusion from 7 total votes. Did win Player of Euro 2012 award which was taken account of for the Best Player in Europe award, voted on in August, so that is a difference compared to the old Club Footballer of the Year award obviously).

    2012/13 - Franck Ribery - Not in ESM Team of the Year, having 1 monthly inclusion (in the final month) from 10 total votes.

    2013/14 - Cristiano Ronaldo - In ESM Team of the Year with 5 monthly inclusions (no player had more) from 55 total votes (no player had as many).

    2014/15 - Lionel Messi - In ESM Team of the Year with 7 monthly inclusions (no player had as many) from 73 total votes (no player had as many).

    2015/16 - Cristiano Ronaldo - Not in ESM Team of the Year, having 1 monthly inclusion (in the penultimate month) from 22 total votes (joint 5th most for fowards, joint 12th most overall).

    2016/17 - Cristiano Ronaldo - In ESM Team of the Year with 3 monthly inclusions. Total votes information not available. Was UEFA Champions League Forward of the Season with more than twice the points of 2nd placed Messi, and more points than any positional winner (but Gianluigi Buffon as goalkeeper was close). Obviously that's not only a club-game specific award but also a competition specific one though it's fair to say (but the Club Footballer of the Year awards did also used to lean heavily on European cups performances too, especially the Champions League, it seemed).
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  5. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I might have a look at tallying it all up before too long, but of course with a set starting point of 1978, some players will have totals a bit on the low side compared to if started a bit earlier. If it's looked at as post-Cruyff/Beckenbauer era (even though I gave points to Cruyff) it might seem reasonable, but for example Platini would have had a slightly higher total I'd think factoring in pre 1977/78 ideas.

    It looks like the overall points will be high for Zidane/C.Ronaldo/Rummenigge obviously, but that the total wins (worldwide anyway; factoring in Messi vs CR7 and Zico vs Rummenigge, and also Ronaldo as well as Figo vs Zidane) not so high for those players, while Platini would maintain a high number of wins too (if not as many as Messi, I assume Pele if going back further and feasibly Cruyff and/or Di Stefano/Puskas).

    Could even be interesting to look at distribution by countries and also clubs over the whole period in theory, but I had no set ideas to spread votes around or anything like that really.

    In a way it'd have been nice if the IOC award (however the process actually worked) had continued, even alongside others, so a full 1978-2017 analysis could be done with the results from that too, as obviously after 1985/86 I could only compare seasonal winners (increasingly focused on major club tournament success perhaps) to Ballon d'Or winners and/or other annual award winners.
     
  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Just to clarify:

    I was meaning that the total wins would seem low compared to their respective points totals overall for C.Ronaldo/Rummenigge/Zidane, and also that whereas Platini would also be given the World Player award most of the times he got the European Player one, the others would lose them (also Kaka taking one seasonal one and one calendar year one ahead of CR7). I had Rummenigge losing out for World Player every time I gave him European Player actually, although C.Ronaldo still has nearly as many world awards as Platini according to my lists.

    We can see the main voting sources didn't even give Platini the European award in 1982 anyway obviously so potentially a real vote might even give him exactly the same number of World awards as European ones (perhaps in 1985 Maradona could challenge according to the voters/system/criteria etc). Official votes were varied regarding Zidane anyway, so whether he has more annual awards than seasonal ones depends on the source chosen to determine the annual ones. Maybe he'd have won the 1997/98 European Club Footballer of the Year award if Ronaldo wasn't eligible (or more likely he'd have taken an all-encompassing 1997/98 club and national team award if it existed).
     
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Cristiano Ronaldo 41 41 82
    Zinedine Zidane 31 25 56
    Michel Platini 22 20 42
    Marco van Basten 18 19 37
    Luis Figo 20 17 37
    Thierry Henry 21 16 37
    Andres Iniesta 15 16 31
    Michael Laudrup 17 13 30
    Xavi 13 15 28
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 12 14 26
    Ruud Gullit 14 12 26
    Kenny Dalglish 12 13 25
    Andriy Shevchenko 13 11 24
    Dejan Savicevic 12 10 22
    Dennis Bergkamp 13 9 22
    Eden Hazard 11 10 21
    Franco Baresi 11 9 20
    Roberto Baggio 10 10 20
    Paolo Maldini 10 10 20
    Andrea Pirlo 9 9 18
    Gary Lineker 9 8 17
    Lothar Matthaus 8 9 17
    Arjen Robben 9 8 17
    Ruud Krol 9 5 14
    Paolo Rossi 9 5 14
    Steven Gerrard 9 5 14
    Pavel Nedved 6 7 13
    Francesco Totti 5 8 13
    Franck Ribery 6 7 13
    Antoine Griezmann 5 8 13
    Jan Ceulemans 7 5 12
    Mesut Ozil 7 5 12
    Kevin Keegan 6 5 11
    Jari Litmanen 3 8 11
    Wesley Sneijder 5 6 11
    Kevin De Bruyne 9 2 11
    Preben Elkjaer 7 3 10
    Jean Tigana 4 6 10
    Jurgen Klinsmann 6 4 10
    Jean-Pierre Papin 6 4 10
    Eric Cantona 3 7 10
    Raul 5 5 10
    Davor Suker 5 4 9
    Fabio Cannavaro 5 4 9
    Frank Lampard 5 4 9
    Gaetano Scirea 5 3 8
    Matthias Sammer 4 4 8
    Gianfranco Zola 3 5 8
    Fernando Torres 4 4 8
    David Beckham 3 5 8
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic 2 6 8
    Paulo Futre 2 5 7
    Robert Pires 2 5 7
    Glenn Hoddle 5 1 6
    Bernd Schuster 2 4 6
    Deco 2 4 6
    Robert Lewandowski 3 3 6
    Paul Pogba 2 4 6
    Rob Rensenbrink 3 2 5
    Enzo Scifo 5 5
    Paul Breitner 2 3 5
    Alain Giresse 2 3 5
    Johan Cruyff 1 4 5
    Paul Gascoigne 3 2 5
    Dragan Stojkovic 3 2 5
    Hristo Stoichkov 2 3 5
    Patrick Vieira 3 2 5
    Cesc Fabregas 2 3 5
    Laurent Blanc 5 5
    Miroslav Klose 5 5
    Safet Susic 1 3 4
    Emilio Butragueno 3 1 4
    Ryan Giggs 2 2 4
    Frank Rijkaard 2 2 4
    Clarence Seedorf 4 4
    Alessandro Nesta 1 3 4
    John Barnes 4 4
    Alessandro Del Piero 4 4
    Ruud van Nistelrooy 4 4
    Liam Brady 3 3
    Michael Owen 3 3
    David Villa 1 2 3
    Christian Eriksen 2 1 3
    Charlie Nicholas 3 3
    Ian Rush 3 3
    Robert Prosinecki 3 3
    Mark van Bommel 3 3
    Igor Belanov 2 2
    Gheorghe Hagi 2 2
    Alan Shearer 2 2
    Andrey Arshavin 2 2
    Michael Ballack 2 2
    Dimitar Berbatov 2 2
    Henrik Larsson 2 2
    N'Golo Kante 2 2
    Toni Kroos 2 2
    Marco Reus 1 1 2
    Giancarlo Antognoni 2 2
    Pierre Littbarski 2 2
    Dominique Rocheteau 2 2
    Gordon Strachan 2 2
    Rafael Martin Vazquez 2 2
    Darko Pancev 2 2
    Gianluca Vialli 2 2
    Adrian Mutu 2 2
    Gerard Pique 2 2
    Gareth Bale 2 2
    Trevor Francis 1 1
    Bryan Robson 1 1
    Aleksandr Zavarov 1 1
    Ronald Koeman 1 1
    Peter Schmeichel 1 1
    Chris Waddle 1 1
    Ricardo Carvalho 1 1
    Petr Cech 1 1
    Freddie Ljungberg 1 1
    Paul Scholes 1 1
    Xabi Alonso 1 1
    Harry Kane 1 1
    Juan Mata 1 1
    Manuel Neuer 1 1
    Zbigniew Boniek 1 1
    Maxime Bossis 1 1
    Bruno Conti 1 1
    Johnny Rep 1 1
    Salvatore Bagni 1 1
    Edgar Davids 1 1
    Roy Keane 1 1
    Rui Costa 1 1
    David De Gea 1 1
    Dimitri Payet 1 1

    Copied and pasted from a spreadsheet. First column is calendar year points, second European season period points, third is total. Where only calendar year points or season points scored rather than both it's not obvious now but the reference is earlier in the thread of course. Soon I'll copy and paste again, or just quote myself, and in brackets will be the number of European Player of the Season/Year, and World Player of the Season/Year awards I'd seem to be giving them.
     
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    The players with only points from calendar years are grouped together for each period of analysis, and likewise the ones with only points from seasons actually I think.

    I realised before on the summary for the period to 1997 I wrote Blanc's points for 90/91 and 95/96 separately so actually I should have written his name once with 5 points.
     
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  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Did you consider Gullit for this season and year? Yes, I understand the Serie A was already well represented. Maybe I wouldn't have Baggio on top for the calander year although he was still good until he got injured November 1994 (not so good/useful in Europe for club in 1993-94 and 1994-95 I think, and played one invisible game for NT after the world cup)
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    For the season in particular, a little bit yes (with his very high ratings in mind, but yes I was aware he wad doing well at the time too and can appreciate also some highlights etc). But probably I see that as a particularly good season in terms of options.

    For the calendar year overall on the other hand, maybe it's not so easy to make a conclusive case for any one player over other contenders, and yeah I can understand you might doubt Baggio certainly, but all in all what he was doing for Juve and also his key moments in the World Cup (the positive ones not the penalty!) maybe makes a case for him at least I think.
     
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  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Added key as follows:
    EPOTY = European Player of the Year
    EPOTS = European Player of the Season
    WPOTY = World Player of the Year
    WPOTS = World Player of the Season

    Cristiano Ronaldo 41 41 82 (EPOTY x4) (EPOTS x5) (WPOTY x2) (WPOTS x2)
    Zinedine Zidane 31 25 56 (EPOTY x2) (EPOTS x2) (WPOTY x1) (WPOTS x2)
    Michel Platini 22 20 42 (EPOTY x4) (EPOTS x2) (WPOTY x3) (WPOTS x2)
    Marco van Basten 18 19 37 (EPOTY x3) (WPOTY x3)
    Luis Figo 20 17 37 (EPOTY x3) (EPOTS x2) (WPOTY x3) (WPOTS x2)
    Thierry Henry 21 16 37 (EPOTY x3) (EPOTS x2) (WPOTY x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Andres Iniesta 15 16 31 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1)
    Michael Laudrup 17 13 30 (EPOTS x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Xavi 13 15 28 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1)
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge 12 14 26 (EPOTY x2) (EPOTS x2)
    Ruud Gullit 14 12 26 (EPOTY x2) (EPOTS x1) (WPOTY x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Kenny Dalglish 12 13 25 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1)
    Andriy Shevchenko 13 11 24 (EPOTS x1)
    Dejan Savicevic 12 10 22 (EPOTS x2) (WPOTS x2)
    Dennis Bergkamp 13 9 22 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1)
    Eden Hazard 11 10 21 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1)
    Franco Baresi 11 9 20 (EPOTS x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Roberto Baggio 10 10 20 (EPOTY x2) (EPOTS x2) (WPOTY x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Paolo Maldini 10 10 20 (EPOTY x1)
    Andrea Pirlo 9 9 18 (EPOTY x1)
    Gary Lineker 9 8 17 (EPOTS x1)
    Lothar Matthaus 8 9 17 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1) (WPOTY x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Arjen Robben 9 8 17 (EPOTY x1) (WPOTY x1)
    Ruud Krol 9 5 14
    Paolo Rossi 9 5 14 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Steven Gerrard 9 5 14
    Pavel Nedved 6 7 13
    Francesco Totti 5 8 13
    Franck Ribery 6 7 13 (EPOTS x1)
    Antoine Griezmann 5 8 13 (EPOTY x1) (EPOTS x1)
    Jan Ceulemans 7 5 12 (EPOTS x1)
    Mesut Ozil 7 5 12
    Kevin Keegan 6 5 11 (EPOTS x1) (WPOTS x1)
    Jari Litmanen 3 8 11 (EPOTS x1)
    Wesley Sneijder 5 6 11 (EPOTS x1)
    Kevin De Bruyne 9 2 11 (EPOTY x1)
    Preben Elkjaer 7 3 10
    Jean Tigana 4 6 10
    Jurgen Klinsmann 6 4 10
    Jean-Pierre Papin 6 4 10 (EPOTY x1) (WPOTY x1)
    Eric Cantona 3 7 10
    Raul 5 5 10
    Davor Suker 5 4 9 (EPOTY x1)
    Fabio Cannavaro 5 4 9 (EPOTY x1)
    Frank Lampard 5 4 9
    Gaetano Scirea 5 3 8
    Matthias Sammer 4 4 8
    Gianfranco Zola 3 5 8 (EPOTS x1)
    Fernando Torres 4 4 8
    David Beckham 3 5 8
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic 2 6 8
    Paulo Futre 2 5 7 (EPOTS x1)
    Robert Pires 2 5 7
    Glenn Hoddle 5 1 6
    Bernd Schuster 2 4 6
    Deco 2 4 6
    Robert Lewandowski 3 3 6
    Paul Pogba 2 4 6
    Rob Rensenbrink 3 2 5
    Enzo Scifo 5 5
    Paul Breitner 2 3 5
    Alain Giresse 2 3 5
    Johan Cruyff 1 4 5
    Paul Gascoigne 3 2 5
    Dragan Stojkovic 3 2 5
    Hristo Stoichkov 2 3 5
    Patrick Vieira 3 2 5
    Cesc Fabregas 2 3 5
    Laurent Blanc 5 5
    Miroslav Klose 5 5 (EPOTS x1)
    Safet Susic 1 3 4
    Emilio Butragueno 3 1 4
    Ryan Giggs 2 2 4
    Frank Rijkaard 2 2 4
    Clarence Seedorf 4 4
    Alessandro Nesta 1 3 4
    John Barnes 4 4
    Alessandro Del Piero 4 4
    Ruud van Nistelrooy 4 4
    Liam Brady 3 3
    Michael Owen 3 3
    David Villa 1 2 3
    Christian Eriksen 2 1 3
    Charlie Nicholas 3 3
    Ian Rush 3 3
    Robert Prosinecki 3 3
    Mark van Bommel 3 3
    Igor Belanov 2 2
    Gheorghe Hagi 2 2
    Alan Shearer 2 2
    Andrey Arshavin 2 2
    Michael Ballack 2 2
    Dimitar Berbatov 2 2
    Henrik Larsson 2 2
    N'Golo Kante 2 2
    Toni Kroos 2 2
    Marco Reus 1 1 2
    Giancarlo Antognoni 2 2
    Pierre Littbarski 2 2
    Dominique Rocheteau 2 2
    Gordon Strachan 2 2
    Rafael Martin Vazquez 2 2
    Darko Pancev 2 2
    Gianluca Vialli 2 2
    Adrian Mutu 2 2
    Gerard Pique 2 2
    Gareth Bale 2 2
    Trevor Francis 1 1
    Bryan Robson 1 1
    Aleksandr Zavarov 1 1
    Ronald Koeman 1 1
    Peter Schmeichel 1 1
    Chris Waddle 1 1
    Ricardo Carvalho 1 1
    Petr Cech 1 1
    Freddie Ljungberg 1 1
    Paul Scholes 1 1
    Xabi Alonso 1 1
    Harry Kane 1 1
    Juan Mata 1 1
    Manuel Neuer 1 1
    Zbigniew Boniek 1 1
    Maxime Bossis 1 1
    Bruno Conti 1 1
    Johnny Rep 1 1
    Salvatore Bagni 1 1
    Edgar Davids 1 1
    Roy Keane 1 1
    Rui Costa 1 1
    David De Gea 1 1
    Dimitri Payet 1 1
     
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  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #1637 PuckVanHeel, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    The council of Amsterdam has just decided to name a street after him. With this he becomes (maybe counter-intuitively) only the 5th Ajax figure after Michels, Wim Anderiesen (1920s and 1930s footballer with some international reputation although not as big as PvH ;) in neutral publications), Bobby Haarms (long time assistant manager between 1967 and 1980, then again between 1986 and 2000) and Daan Rodenburgh (the architect of the De Meer stadium).


    [​IMG]

    (click to enlarge)

    There are some oddities, like Faas Wilkes having a street in Amsterdam but not in his hometown Rotterdam. Where he was born, played for the football clubs, and died. Had a thick Rotterdam accent. Also that Utrecht has opted out somewhat, so no Willem van Hanegem street or Marco van Basten street.

    Being deceased is not a necessary criteria, but it helps, just as having done things outside football (e.g. PvH, Gullit - those persons are few and far between).


    As another side remark, personally (but just my view) I think it is a pity that Johan's estate has given a license (this month) to include him in a video game. During his lifetime that was not his own wish (his name was included in 'FIFA 2000' but without something resembling his likeliness).

    The reason he didn't have a legend card was due to licensing issues, something along the lines he didn't want to be included in a game that kept children indoors, he wanted them outdoors experiencing football for themselves.

    Because he was against it. Something with that he was always trying to find things to get kids playing football outdoors, being a character in a videogame would be the opposite of that.


    In general I tended to like his attitude towards money. On the one hand saying from an early age on "When my career ends, I cannot go to the baker and say: 'I'm Johan Cruyff, give me some bread." but on the other hand the remark "I can't drink two bottles at once, drive two cars at once" (in International Football Book of 1972). To talk openly about money and your financial ambitions like he did was and is a bit of a taboo (as mentioned here on the BBC website), an uneasiness which also explains the duality of him being portrayed as greedy but not belonging among the 1000 richest Dutchmen when he lived.

    Anyway, nice attempt with your list. But just wondering now, is there also an overview with English street names?
     
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  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I'm not sure regarding English street names to be honest. It's quite common to name stands after famous players, managers etc of course though. There is a Brian Clough Way between Nottingham and Derby I know for obvious reasons (it is a main road linking the cities, not a residential street). I sat in the Tom Finney Stand at Preston North End once (maybe he was around there somewhere himself even - he was still alive!).
     
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  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Sorry, I missed off a WPOTS award for Dalglish I realise now! I've entered it in the quote above.

    Of course any official awards (real ones or theoretical ones that didn't exist) could give different overall results and suggest different trends for individual players too anyway. Any other individual having a go at the same exercise as me could also end up with their variations in results giving different trends.

    I did count up the number of times I'd be giving the WPOTY and WPOTS awards to non-Europeans (it is slightly more than the times I'd be giving them to Europeans, but Messi will have made that so in relatively recent times....and actually although various people might disagree the official awards do have more of an evenly split distribution between him and C.Ronaldo).

    For WPOTY I had estimated these non-Europeans in the 1978-2017 timeframe:
    Messi x 7, Zico x 3, Ronaldo x 3, Maradona x 2, Ronaldinho x 2, Kaka x 2, Kempes x 1, Romario x 1, Weah x 1

    And for WPOTS I estimated these (one less occasion overall, and still just one non-South American):
    Messi x 7, Zico x 3, Maradona x 2, Ronaldo x 2, Ronaldinho x 2, Romario x 1, Weah x 1, Rivaldo x 1, Kaka x 1, Neymar x 1
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Did you also consider Modric @PDG1978?
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Like with the Gullit query, it's one that crossed my mind for recent times (backed up by ratings and actual award votes). I have certainly looked at some Real Madrid games from time to time and recognised he was playing very well and being influential. Whether he's a lot better than he was at Tottenham (where in some seasons I think maybe he was one of the best players in the league, but probably not in Europe overall) might be an interesting question to explore. Kante for example has the extra kudos for being such an integral player for both surprise team Leicester and then reviving Chelsea. But in some aspects Modric would be the more talented player and better one too perhaps when fully on his game, and his part in Real Madrid's own (less surprising but literally greater) success shouldn't be under-played. I'm sure CR7 can owe something to players like Modric in giving him the platform (but then it works both ways when Ronaldo scores, especially the higher quality finishes). I don't say I'm definitely right to exclude him anyway. I suppose his role is in between Kante's and Juve version Pogba's, but I'm not averse to including players who fit that description as I did enter Alonso into the 5 names for 2011 for example.
     
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  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Ok thanks, and thanks also for your 'best Savicevic games' suggestion.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    One that feels underrated a bit is Stoichkov. I see that you included him for 1992 year and the 1991-92 season.

    Another option would be 1993-94 and the 1994 year as a whole. 1990 is also an option but I understand that it is a crowded year.

    I understand that 1993 is less feasible; that was production wise not his best year. Also 1990-91 and 1991 is less likely, when he assaulted a referee and was banned.

    Zidane and Iniesta remain often debated cases; for Iniesta I think you consider the right periods (around 2007 and then included between 2009 and 2012). For Zidane you included him for 1998-99, while I think that is perhaps his worst year before the age of 32.

    When you posted it on Wednesday I immediately thought Stoichkov is (maybe, in my subjective view) the main one, within this method.

    Your ideas?
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I guess every list would be different and mine is a personal attempt based on what I saw/know rather than an attempt at making a consensus based list if you know what I mean, but yes the Stoichkov one might stand out given he won the Ballon d'Or. I think again, like I said re: Gullit, season 93/94 has quite a few top options, and for me that is when Cantona and Giggs peaked. Although they did very well obviously in a game vs Manchester United I saw at the time, I don't think Romario and Stoichkov started so well 94/95 did they overall? Obviously as discussed I felt 1994 was a tricky one to declare for the full year though, so in the end I did still put Romario top, but I feel he was better in the WC even though Stoichkov was certainly productive in that too, and probably the goalscoring expertise persuaded me more in terms of peak 1994 contribution/form but anyway I know it's not a direct comparison to Romario you're thinking of (and not where awards veer away from my calls as Romario of course won the FIFA World Player of the Year anyway). One award in Spain went to Stoichkov for 93/94 and the other Laudrup and Romario shared wasn't it?

    I think I had Zidane for 1999 calendar year (more for start to 99/00, but some games surely helping before that including certainly the England game albeit a friendly - some early 99/00 performances seem impressive for him anyway although it is not until January/February 2000 he makes an ESM team of the month. I don't think I put him in for 98/99 season though did I (if I did I will look again at what my thought process must've been there!)?

    Anyway, yes, I wanted to keep it my list but not unreasonably so - so I try not to use favouritism if I can't at least think to myself the choice can be merited. But there will always be players I particularly appreciate and particularly rate.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #1645 PDG1978, Feb 24, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
    The actual winners aren't surprising but interesting to see the European Player of the Year (actually called King (Rey) of European football) voting results (links available from 1999 to 2008, but winners listed from 1991 too) from El Pais of Uruguay. Not to be confused with El Pais of Madrid who gave out Player of the Season awards in Spanish football for Spainish/foreign players (separately, just as with Don Balon) including the joint award to Romario/Laudrup I referred to.

    Obviously it's as stated on the page, open for votes for all players playing in Europe, not only those playing for European national teams:
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/sam-eupoy.html

    Impressive inter-continental effort really (though I guess the main European leagues and Champions League were getting good TV coverage in South America).

    Team of the year (as in an XI made from players voted for) shown too from 1999 only btw.
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    So yes, marginal results in some cases certainly but El Pais effectively hand out 4 World Player of the Year awards to Zidane!

    I was thinking, in terms of analysing and tallying real votes and awards as opposed to my own estimations, I could use France Football's retro idea about how many Ballon d'Or would have been collected by non-Europeans before 1995 (though it's not like they re-contacted all the journalists involved at the times and asked them how their votes would have changed...and according to protocol about winners in consecutive years maybe Pele in 1959 if he had won in 1958 would particularly be in doubt).

    Between 1956 and 1970 then these players would have collected wins according to this:
    [​IMG]
    Pele x 7
    Stanley Matthews x 1
    Alfredo Di Stefano x 1
    Eusebio x 1
    Bobby Charlton x 1
    Florian Albert x 1
    George Best x 1
    Gianni Rivera x 1
    Garrincha x 1

    Probably I can also from 1970/71 use the first available Player of the European Season award (from the IOC voting) and then show potential European Players of the Seasons/Years and World Players of the Seasons/Years (using Ballon d'Or for years always with above table for any adjustments). The doubts would concern the period between 1970/71 and 1985/86 for seasons I think, with South American player wins likely to be under-stated (but hard to compare anyway, even though I tried myself) - if anything it is the other way round between 1956 and 1970 I suppose for annual Ballon d'Or estimates, but that's not to say the choices aren't reasonable/realistic in a retrospective way and I myself have always given Pele about the same amount (actually one more I think, even not giving him 1970; not that I'm certain about it of course).

    Anyway, some years seem clear according to all sources and some very close calls, as per some of the voting with El Pais. For seasons it's probably similar, plus sometimes there seems an extreme emphasis on Champions League success and latter stage performances at significant moments in terms of the results for UEFA Club Footballer of the Year etc.
     
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Regarding the bolded bit in my quoted post above, I think I should correct myself a bit actually, because Kopa (winner of the 1958 Ballon d'Or) did go on to claim a comfortable second place in 1959. It's known that votes for Di Stefano were disallowed/discouraged for 1958, and probably it's similar in 1957 too although Matthews did get a couple of stray votes for 4th/5th and I'm not sure it's clear he'd get many more than that anyway.

    To be complete, I'll show also a summary of actual European Players of the Year now for 1956 to 1970 too, and then the same but taking away Di Stefano, Sivori and Eusebio (nowadays the first two might be done in a retrospective analysis as they'd be considered Argentine, while the second might be done according to some ways of looking at it whereby Eusebio would be an African...although I'd be of a mind to keep him in the list (and omit Facchetti) if I went back further myself obviously as he's a bona fide Portuguese player in any all-time analysis we all do generally):
    Actual EPOTY (1956-1970)
    Alfredo Di Stefano x 2
    Stanley Matthews x 1
    Raymond Kopa x 1
    Luis Suarez Miramontes x 1
    Omar Sivori x 1
    Josef Masopust x 1
    Lev Yashin x 1
    Denis Law x 1
    Eusebio x 1
    Bobby Charlton x 1
    Florian Albert x 1
    George Best x 1
    Gianni Rivera x 1
    Gerd Muller x 1

    Theoretical 'born and bred' EPOTY
    Raymond Kopa x 2
    Luis Suarez Miramontes x 2
    Stanley Matthews x 1
    Billy Wright x 1
    Josef Masopust x 1
    Lev Yashin x 1
    Denis Law x 1
    Giacinto Facchetti x 1
    Bobby Charlton x 1
    Florian Albert x 1
    George Best x 1
    Gianni Rivera x 1
    Gerd Muller x 1

    (I think the one for Wright would be in some doubt as the tallies were close enough that the second place player could easily be caught by others with adjusted votes minus Di Stefano potentially)



    So I'll come back and tally up European and World Players of the Year for 1971 to 2017 too, according to adjusted Ballon d'Or awards. And for seasons I might just have to list 'Players of the European Season' (rather than European and World Players of the Season) all things considered, using the various sources, and I'm even considering for more recent times using the ESM votes despite that it's not perfect as they aren't compiled with average ratings or even Player of the Month votes, so it'd be a case of looking at inclusions and total votes (now I don't see total votes for 2016/17 on the helpful spreadsheet, provided on the ESM thread itself, but IIRC Messi had the most?). I might be conflicted on 94/95 and 95/96 if I did go that way too, as the Unicef award still existed then but ESM voting had started too (though for 94/95 it's a Team of the Season that is selected, so it'd be a case of looking at votes for that).

    Stanley Matthews x 1
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    So first, according to adjusted Ballon d'Or (France Football, and FIFA Ballon d'Or for a few years recently) awards.....

    European Player of the Year awards (1971-2017)
    Cristiano Ronaldo x 10
    Johan Cruyff x 3
    Michel Platini x 3
    Marco van Basten x 3
    Franz Beckenbauer x 2
    Kevin Keegan x 2
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge x 2
    Oleg Blokhin x 1
    Alan Simonsen x 1
    Paolo Rossi x 1
    Igor Belanov x 1
    Ruud Gullit x 1
    Lothar Matthaus x 1
    Jean-Pierre Papin x 1
    Roberto Baggio x 1
    Hristo Stoichkov x 1
    Jurgen Klinsmann x 1
    Matthias Sammer x 1
    Predrag Mijatovic x 1
    Zinedine Zidane x 1
    David Beckham x 1
    Luis Figo x 1
    Michael Owen x 1
    Oliver Kahn x 1
    Pavel Nedved x 1
    Andriy Shevchenko x 1
    Frank Lampard x 1
    Fabio Cannavaro x 1
    Andres Iniesta x 1

    World Player of the Year awards (1971-2017)
    Cristiano Ronaldo x 5
    Lionel Messi x 5
    Johan Cruyff x 3
    Michel Platini x 3
    Marco van Basten x 3
    Franz Beckenbauer x 2
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge x 2
    Diego Maradona x 2
    Ronaldo x 2
    Oleg Blokhin x 1
    Alan Simonsen x 1
    Mario Kempes x 1
    Kevin Keegan x 1
    Paolo Rossi x 1
    Ruud Gullit x 1
    Jean-Pierre Papin x 1
    Roberto Baggio x 1
    Romario x 1
    George Weah x 1
    Matthias Sammer x 1
    Zinedine Zidane x 1
    Rivaldo x 1
    Luis Figo x 1
    Michael Owen x 1
    Pavel Nedved x 1
    Andriy Shevchenko x 1
    Ronaldinho x 1
    Fabio Cannavaro x 1
    Kaka x 1


     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Obviously some of those choices of the France Football (or FIFA) consensus aren't unanimous though, considering other sources like the original FIFA World Player of the Year award, the Onze d'Or, World Soccer's Player of the Year, El Pais European Player of the Year, or Argentine/Italian organised votes like vegan found reference to for late 70s to mid 80s.
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Combining the above posts anyway, it seems France Football would still have awarded the most Player of the Year awards to Pele thus far, but that Cristiano Ronaldo would have had by far the most European Player of the Year awards now (even allowing for some possibility other Europeans overtake him occasionally in some years with no Messi or other South American options to vote for).
     

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