Hello Cleveland

Discussion in 'Cleveland' started by C. B., Jan 6, 2014.

  1. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What did FCC do? They have a bunch of money behind the team. Plus, the launched 10 years later than the City Stars and soccer is wildly different here. Hell, FCC didn’t even launch that well. Maybe you’re forgetting about all the horrible launch videos they had. The City Stars wanted to remove the football lines at Bedford but didn’t have the money.

    If you want a field that doesn’t have lines, the only one that MIGHT work is Browns Stadium. Krenzler has lacrosse lines now. I’m not sure where you would expect a team to play.
     
  2. C-Bus20

    C-Bus20 Member

    Mar 1, 2009
    Everywhere
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What i said about FCC is to find what they did to go from having the Kings and drawing nothing to an average of 20k. Last time I checked just having money didn’t put butts in seats. i don’t work for them to tell you what they did but they did something right and in a smaller market than Cleveland. It sounds like you just want to make excuses and reality is if you want pro soccer to work you can’t play on a HS football field. It literally never works especially here where your average europoser fan will turn his nose up to the idea.

    To add on top of your great analysis the rumor I heard was the new Cleveland team (let’s call them the force) will start in PDL until they can build a stadium then move to the top division of USL. So you would most likely get your beautiful football lines for a little while.
     
  3. Tobias C

    Tobias C Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Mar 6, 2014
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can totally understand the sentiment that people who won't show up for games because they're on HS football fields with lines everywhere....are fairweather fans and that's true to an extent.

    I kinda agree with CBus20 though. There's a limited amount of diehard soccer fans in an area that enjoy ANY and/or ALL soccer. There all right here on Big Soccer probably. Then there's youth teams and their families that you'll be able to lure out but they won't actually watch the game. That's about it though.

    It's a lot harder to connect with and win over soccer fans who only watch the big European leagues and International competitions, USMNT, etc. I can see not wanting to spend money on what said people may consider a sub par experience. If you want to build and expand a fanbase...who do you look to?

    Eventually you want to lure in casual fans and people who don't even know the sport. You want to create new fans too. They might not have huge expectations of what a soccer field or stadium should look or feel like.....but they will understand that they're going to see some random team thats the secondary tenant of this high school football facility. It seems petty....but that's how it is if you're trying to cast a wide net, attracting fans, existing as well as new.

    I'm not sure I see the point of starting out in PDL.....especially if you can afford to eventually operate a USL team, especially nowadays. It won't draw enough attention. You need to be able to advertise to fans that'll they'll get to root against Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc.

    I definitely think there's a place for another PDL/NPSL/UPSL etc. team but not one with professional aspirations. If anybodies going to flirt with professional soccer in Cleveland they should come financially equipped to do it right, or not even bother.

    FC Cincy has done a lot of stuff right obviously and are an admirable, ambitious organization. They have the carrot they can dangle in front of fans that is the potential of MLS though. Cleveland would realistically never have that, at least not anytime remotely soon....and that's fine. I personally think Louisville City is a great example of what Cleveland should and could realistically aspire to be. Outside of the big MLS candidates (Sac and Cincy) Lou leads in attendance and has continually put out a strong team. They've drawn well in a baseball stadium (not ideal) and now are building a 10-12k soccer specific stadium in an up and coming, central neighborhood. I would love to see Cleveland in that position and as a city almost twice the size of Louisville, I think it's a reasonably attainable goal.
     
  4. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s not really about making excuses. Cincy has a large amount of money behind the team from a prominent group in the city. They signed up large corporate sponsors, which they could get because they had well known ownership. They sell some of the cheapest tickets in the league. They’re on a college campus and built a relationship with the students. They’ve learned about what sells soccer and they know what they’re doing. They can also afford missteps because they’re not in any danger of going bust.

    I don’t think the City Stars did a good job. I don’t think AFCCLE did a good job. They could have made better decisions with the limited resources they have. They didn’t and they’re gone.

    I’m not sure how you decided that I love football lines on a field. It’s simply reality, something here probably will have lines. I’ll ask you - where do you play in the city that won’t have lines for other sports? Genuine question.

    DCFC plays on a field with football lines. It hasn’t stopped them from being relevant in their city. What do you think worked for them?
     
  5. C-Bus20

    C-Bus20 Member

    Mar 1, 2009
    Everywhere
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DCFC does not have football lines. Like you said there are limited places to play which is why the rumor about building a stadium was said. I suppose you could work with Krenzler at CSU and talk about expanding seats maybe? i really dont know that but just shooting ideas without info.

    like i said about FCC, yes that have money but so do the hunts in Dallas and Kronke in Denver and they dont draw sh*t. Money doesn't = butts. You need the right location, branding, etc and i am no expert in that but if you are playing in the city or dare i say "urban core" than you have a much better chance that a HS stadium in the burbs where you cant sell alcohol.
     
  6. MLSinCleveland

    MLSinCleveland Member+

    Oct 12, 2006
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that the football lines are a distraction and having the lines for another sport on the field is an embarrassment for a pro team, but what is the big deal about them being on the field of an amateur team if it is something they can't control? Do you hate football so much that the presence of the lines triggers you?
     
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  7. MLSinCleveland

    MLSinCleveland Member+

    Oct 12, 2006
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the list of options for fields without football lines in Cleveland:

    Amateur
    - Coughlin (be prepared to lose some balls to landing on the train tracks behind the bleachers)
    - Pinnacle (horrible spectator venue)
    - maybe one of the few high schools left with a grass field will be willing to paint the soccer lines on the field in the summer (HS grass fields are usually blank in the summer, IIRC)

    Pro
    - Browns Stadium
    - build an SSS
     
  8. C-Bus20

    C-Bus20 Member

    Mar 1, 2009
    Everywhere
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Amateur i get but pro i cant handle. My point was you cant be taken seriously in a HS football stadium especially in Cleveland you will be viewed as less than a HS team.
     
  9. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the soft and entitled American soccer culture.

    Across the world, any field works. I've been at fields that double as dog tracks. I've seen fields that have train tracks run in front of the stands. I've seen fields that are dark, damp, and dilapidated...and they have support. In the US, unless you have pristine things and WiFi, you have nothing. It better be perfect, or you won't have me. It's weak. It's not true fandom.

    If there's grass in areas across the world they'd be on Cloud 9. Nope, they play on dirt, rocks, and concrete. Americans need heat and air conditioning. The lines deal is annoying. Yes, it sucks to have lines. But, any soccer is better than no soccer. I'll stand by that. Kids need places to play. Kids need to develop. Kids need support. Soft soccer culture gets us missing the World Cup.
     
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  10. Zips15

    Zips15 Member

    Aug 11, 2016
    Club:
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    well if you want the sport to grow to a point of being the most popular in the country and internationally competitive, you're gonna have to win over the "soft and entitled American soccer culture" because they're worth a lot of $$.

    I've been to many AFC Cle games, I love soccer and that's why I go, but at the same time I can understand how any level of soccer fan could look at that and think "this is not a quality professional soccer club product" And they're right, it's Amateur, and that makes a world of difference to a lot of people.
     
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  11. hipityhop

    hipityhop Member

    New Mexico United
    United States
    Jan 10, 1999
    Mission TX
    Club:
    SønderjyskE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Expansion in USL must be completely dead when the only active thread is Cleveland.
     
  12. Tobias C

    Tobias C Member+

    Columbus Crew
    United States
    Mar 6, 2014
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I attend Toledo Villa games. Theyre in the UPSL so like...not even as big as AFC Cleveland. I think I'm probably one of like a couple dozen people that aren't affiliated with the club in someway, whos just there to support soccer in my city.....and I can totally see why others may pass on the opportunity as well.

    ( also to derail the thread....I think Toledo might be a strong candidate for a USL D3 team which I'm praying for. I talked to the president of the club and he said it was their goal once it became financially viable.)
     
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  13. C-Bus20

    C-Bus20 Member

    Mar 1, 2009
    Everywhere
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^This is all i am trying to say. Calling people entitled and saying they need to come watch just because its soccer does not mean they will. I personally will go watch soccer anywhere but you need to give everyone else a reason to show up and being taken seriously is a big part of that. I will reiterate....If you are going to put a pro team in Cleveland, do it right! No HS stadiums, no football lines, no fake supporters pretending to be English singing "come on city" like they are in Manchester. It has not worked before and it will not work again and its simple. Be authentic and people will come. Slow growth is what's needed here and not faking until you make it.
     
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  14. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slow growth? When is that happening? Why accept slow? That's gotten nothing done.

    Facts here: 2006 tv viewership for MLS averaged 263,000 and in 2017 that average was 272,000. In 10+ years the average rose 9,000 in a country with 320m. That's not even high enough to be considered "growth." Oh, to make it worse, 2006 had 12 MLS teams while 2017 had 22!

    The system is broken. Like not having a team in Cleveland? Unless the system changes, you'll continue to see the teams come and go. Oh, don't forget this: http://www.soccertimes.com/mls/2004/may16.htm.

     
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  15. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Sunny San Diego
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That has little to do with growth and all to do with having a sh*tty TV contract. There is no consistency with the schedule. Sometimes there isn't even game on TV at all some weekends. NFL fans know there are games on at 1est and 4est. Nascar fan know that day races start at 1 est. NBA and MLB games are played everyday so finding them is no problem. Even EPL game are shown at 8am and 11am est every Sunday. MLS will have a game of the week sometimes on a sat, sometimes on a sun, sometimes on ESPN, sometimes on FS1, sometimes even on ABC or Fox. I wish NBC Sports would buy the rights and treat it like they do the EPL. Fox Sports does the same thing with the Bund. I bet their rating would be better if they had a set schedule too.

    Back to Cleveland, there no way a city the size of Cleveland should not have at least a USL team and a professional team should not have to play on a field with football lines. That is amateurish and makes the team, organization and sport in this country look foolish and it will not get casual fans to buy in. Same way with playing in a baseball stadium unless it is no longer used for baseball like the Rowdies or the Timbers.
     
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  16. ThePonchat

    ThePonchat Member+

    #ProRelForUSA
    United States
    Jan 10, 2013
    I've Been Everywhere Man
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is part of the problem! There should be MLS/NASL/USL games available at all times, essentially. That's the failure of USSF and SUM.

    EPL viewership is down too, in fact, it's down nearly 20% from previous year. That's not good either.

    No one likes football/baseball being shared on a soccer field. If someone wants soccer, they may have to settle for that UNTIL the support is big enough to know a soccer specific stadium can be built (or an exchangeable turf setup). It's not hard to look at MLS games to see those soccer specific stadiums still don't have much support. What's the excuse there when they lack football lines?
     
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  17. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Sunny San Diego
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Advertising, thinking that by just having a Facebook page is enough. Take my namesake for example, as someone living in Virginia Beach and who loves soccer, I only heard about Virginia Beach City FC when I got curious about what actually happened to the Mariners. I found them by accident after they had already played a season. They now have youth teams and partnered with the cities biggest young organization, Beach FC, but unless you have kids you have no idea they are there. Another big strike is they are not owned locally.

    That is completely opposed to the way a new local team, Lionsbridge FC, has started. In addition to having Facebook, they are owned locally and have emphasized "local community" from the start. The owners have appeared on the local news to promote the team as well as the local sports TV and radio shows. They have partnered with a very popular brewery and secured sponsorships with the local hospital and shirt sponsor Chick-fil-a. As well as partnering up with the very popular baseball team, Tides, and the hockey team, Admirals, on the local sports council.

    One team is very well known in the community because they realize they are nothing without the community and one seems to be content with zero advertising and the stadium filled with kids.
     
  18. FRA_2795

    FRA_2795 New Member

    Jan 11, 2018
    What did FCC do? Well to begin, they had an amazing stadium in Nippert on a campus with a 40,000+ student population..there's no such stadium in Cleveland as Browns would never let a USL team in, in my opinion. Also, you could buy a student season ticket for $50 or individual tickets for $5, about 5,000 students would fill "The Ruckus" every game when classes were in session. Dirt cheap... I mean $5 for a two hour night out, that's a no brainer. You were cool if you went to games...even the casual fan or new fan would go. I attended a few in the Ruckus as well as one in the Bailey (supporter's section), which if you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know if you were in London, Munich, or Cincinnati. Copa 90 has a great video on FCC. Once things really started moving well for FCC, you couldn't walk on campus on any day without seeing FCC merch.

    Cleveland. Not only is a stadium is missing here, but a figurehead as well. I've always wanted a pro Cleveland team at CSU's Krenzler Field and there's enough room to expand to 4,000 in short-term and probably 10-15k long term (by closing East 18th). The room is there, the investor isn't. Is the fan support there? If 2,000 went to the AFC Cleveland 2016 NPSL Championship game (an amateur game), I certainly would expect 4,000 to be there for a professional game. Build a rivalry with Cincinnati, Detroit, Pittsburgh. Grow. Grow. The. Game. in an area that has rich history of soccer (did y'all know Pele played a game in Cleveland??). The history is there, the consumer base is there, the stadium (could) be there, the investor should be here.

    At the end of the day, we need that angel investor. Once that is figured out, get a soccer experienced and notable name in a coach to create buzz (look at FCC getting John Harkes). Follow the FCC option to get a student population (CSU, Case). Create buzz. Take a chance in joining a league such as Peter Wilt's NISA. Do something.
     
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  19. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Yeah, the major tenant is super-thrilled that their giant palace on that shitty lake is only used about 10 times a year and hardly ever in the summer. They'd NEVER want to take on a secondary tenant who would pay rent to them. Nope. Because reasons.
     
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  20. 6th City Syndicate

    6th City Syndicate New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    Having been the acting SG for AFC Cleveland for their entire existence, please allow "us" to share a few things:

    1. Football lines have virtually nothing to do with anything that made an impact on attendance. AFC Cleveland's largest numbers came in 2012 when they played at Byers Field in Parma, with lines. Some of their poorest attended matches were played at Krenzler (a soccer-specific venue, without lines, in the heart of Cleveland).

    2. A USL ownership group, rumored to be or include the Abrams (Force Sports facilities) is active and may field a team in the future, with their own stadium.

    3. The single largest issue AFC Cleveland faced was marketing. It was virtually nonexistent. We all know many people who love the game and would come to a match, but had no idea Cleveland even had a team. Bouncing around to a new home field every season (sometimes 2 per season) certainly didn't help things.

    4. Unless you've been to a match and watched someone pull on a jersey representing Cleveland, please don't be so quick to write off the league or club they're doing it in. Many people who became AFCC supporters did just that until someone dragged them to a match… they came back.

    5. Don't be surprised to hear about another Cleveland team popping up, maybe sooner rather than later… and if they do, we hope you'll at least give them the opportunity to earn your respect. If/when a Cleveland team takes the pitch again, we'll be there, and we'd love to have you join us.
     
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  21. oneeyedfool

    oneeyedfool Member+

    Nov 17, 2012
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you referring to the USL group you referenced above or a separate effort?
     
  22. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There’s a separate effort.

    FYI DCFC may no longer have lines, but that’s new. They were even there when they moved to Keyworth. Hasn’t held them back.
     
  23. oneeyedfool

    oneeyedfool Member+

    Nov 17, 2012
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What league is the separate effort looking to play in?
     
  24. hipityhop

    hipityhop Member

    New Mexico United
    United States
    Jan 10, 1999
    Mission TX
    Club:
    SønderjyskE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So any news today on getting a team in Cleveland??? Not a peep on USL website.
     
  25. 6th City Syndicate

    6th City Syndicate New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    Not expecting anything to happen with a Cleveland USL team for at least a few years. The only group to appear to be seriously perusing one is set on having a stadium built for it… and that’s a years-along endeavor.

    It’s looking like some announcements will be popping up in the next few days.
     
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