One issue though any changes in USSF policy that impacts MLS and its clubs is basically USSF regulating MLS and that's a no no per anti-trust laws. What changes hopo solo may want may not even be legally possible.
My understanding was that they are all employees, just most of them are part-time. That brings up another option--to have PRO refs also take non-PRO assignments in CPL, if PRO would allow that.
That could go either way. There's an argument to be made that the current structure of sports leagues in the US already violate anti-trust laws. Hell, the country has looked the other way on numerous anti-competitive practices in the corporate world in recent decades. The USSF looking to enforce changes at the league structure wouldn't necessarily be anti-trust, as MLS' membership in the USSF is purely optional. The USSF mandates are reliant on the condition that MLS wants membership. They are under no obligations to remain members. It's MLS that seeks sanctioning from USSF not the other way around. It's similar to how the CSA indemnifies MLS and other North American leagues from numerous possible rule infractions due to the fact that the players ostensibly agree to them. Although the option year on contracts is in a hazy area due to the fact that it doesn't pass muster with FIFA's contract rules and possibly FIF-Pro agreements which is why MLS has tried to avoid defending those contracts in FIFA arbitration. So I doubt that USSF regulations on MLS would ever be considered "anti-trust" on it's face. The only way that comes into question is when there is a question about conflict of interest and possible collusion between the MLS and the USSF itself. At this point it's no longer a matter of a sanctioning organization and a client organization. Remember, we have sanctioning organizations in other sports. Boxing & MMA, for instance, has a multi-faceted web of state sanctioning bodies (ie the Nevada Athletic Commission) and international sanctioning organizations (WBA, WBC, one could even consider the UFC to be one). These organizations can enforce rules that are accepted and even enforced by other sanctioning bodies. It's why a ruling in Nevada often carries weight in California without any subsequent hearings. And the international bodies will likely accept those rulings even if said fighter tried to fight outside of the US, not due to collusion, but because those bodies wish to sanction fights in Nevada and would do well not to ignore their rulings. That is not collusion nor anti-trust business practice unless, the separate bodies are shown to have mutual business that reflects a possible conflict of interest.
This different though. This is a private organization trying act like government and setting regulations on another private business. Unless government grants USSF the authority to regulate soccer in this country, USSF has no legal authority to regulate MLS or any league in the country. Hence the anti-trust issue. But federal law trumps all private business internal rules. USSF is not a governmental entity that has no legal authority to make another private business to do something they do not want to do. It doesn't matter. If USSF is breaking federal law to force MLS do something, MLS will sue the USSF and win.
A business that's a member of said organization and agrees to abide by its bylaws? You mean like through legislation passed in 1978? That's the funniest thing I've heard all month. That ain't a violation of the Sherman Act, which is about anti-competitive behavior, not about onerous or unlawful regulation. Maybe. Eventually. USSF's ability to govern soccer in this country has not been tested. (That's part of what's involved in the NASL lawsuit.) But it would not be easy and would not happen quickly. As Sunil Gulati famously said, if USSF tried to unilaterally impose promotion and relegation on the leagues under its purview, they would very soon hear from "people with very high LSAT scores." But that has eff-all to do with antitrust.
There are five Canadian referees employed by PRO and I think they are all full time. It also looks like there are at least five ARs, who are not full time, including Joe Fletcher who is going to a second World Cup with Mark Geiger. I think it would be pretty tough to pay more than MLS for these guys. The referees can make a good deal more than the top end of the stated CPL salary structure when you combine salary and match fees. The pay increases with seniority and playoff assignments as well.
The CSA does contribute to PRO so the CSA could contract with it for referees. This creates an interesting situation with respect to who gets assignments and how Canadians are appointed to the Fifa list.
I'm going to take a wild stab here, but I know MLS has swiped referees from other federations in the past. I would imagine it is more a matter of accreditation than anything. So referees can only work in countries where they have accreditation. USSF and CSA might be a unique instance because I think the PRO referees have a PRO badge or FIFA badge and that likely gives them the ability to referee in both the US and Canada.
Not quite sure I'm capable of that. I can offer a few facts or points. 1) PRO is a creation of USSF, CSA and MLS. PRO is responsible for assigning all MLS matches. PRO also assigns, to varying extents, NASL, USL and NWSL matches. What I mean by that is PRO typically assigns the whistles for all those matches and some of the ARs. For particular matches, PRO might assign all four slots (and they do all four once you enter the playoffs). In a few cases, mostly in lower-profile USL matches, PRO may allow USSF or CSA to assign a match fully. 2) PRO will assign Canadian referees to American USL and NASL matches, but will not assign American referees to Canadian USL or NASL matches. My undrestanding is that this is part of the arrangement with CSA and ensures non-PRO Canadian referees have some professional matches below the MLS level to develop on. So there are already a few Canadian referees, not in PRO, who work professional matches (more on that in a minute). 3) PRO has full-time and part-time referees under contract. Those are the referees and fourth officials you see on the PRO website (and who you see working in MLS). ARs are not under contract but are part of the bargaining unit within PSRA (the referee's union). There are both Americans and Canadians in this group. 4) Just because a referee is under contract with PRO or working for PRO doesn't mean they can't take other matches. For example, USSF assigns the Open Cup and CSA assigns the Canadian Championship. In the latter stages, these competitions heavily rely on officials who also work for PRO. A lot of American PRO referees also work D1 college games when their schedules allow. I am not sure what matches Canadian PRO officials tend to work, if any, outside MLS/NASL/USL. By my main point here is that nothing would preclude Canadian PRO referees from taking matches in the CPL unless there are specific clauses in the contracts or CBA that I do not know about. 5) Like every federation, the CSA has a system for developing referees. The National List is the top level, which is here: https://www.canadasoccer.com/national-list-of-officials-s14692 You'll note some of those names are familiar from MLS. The unfamiliar names would be the officials CPL and CSA would use to fill the ranks (whether or not they could also use PRO referees). The question of women referees would almost certainly rely on whether they can complete the men's fitness standards--you'll note there are a couple female assistant referees in MLS, but not all American FIFA women are in MLS... that is because some of them can complete the men's standards and some cannot. 6) The big question would seem to be whether or not CSA tries to treat the CPL similar to the way PRO already treats NASL/USL or if it (and PRO) want it to be entirely outside the PRO structure. If the CPL gets treated like NASL/USL, then you'll see a lot of the Canadian PRO guys on those matches, helped by the people on the National List. If CSA doesn't want PRO involved (or if the CPL doesn't want it OR PRO simply doesn't want to do it), then it would probably just be all the non-PRO Canadians on CSA's National List.
To sort of supplement MassRef, the USSF hasn't really swiped referees from other Feds. Technically speaking I believe PRO could hire any referee it wanted to work its games. Practically speaking the real pool of referees is going to come from the national referees certified by the USSF and CSA and limitations the PSRA negotiated with PRO as part of the CBA. The badge that a referee wears is sort of tied to the competition. Professional league matches, PRO referees will wear the PRO badge. For others like the open cup they'd wear the national badge. To be appointed to the Fifa list, you must be a national referee, a citizen of the country where you are registered, and you must work the top level pro league in your country. Both Canadian and US referees worked both sides of the border in MLS before PRO.
In the last year PRO assigned all of MLS, U.S. based NASL referees and ARs (with local Fourths), similar NWSL, and (I think) USL. With regards to the NWSL, they assigned CSA "spots", but did not actually assign referees to fill those slots - CSA did. The one CSA assigned game in Cary ended up with a change to U.S. based officials around 24 hours from kickoff. And plenty of PRO contracted officials take assignments from NISOA (U.S. colleges) as well. It's entirely possible that the full-time Canadian PRO refs might have some availability to the CSA, but I suspect they and the CSA would probably like them to mainly get the higher level experience in MLS.
Decided to check in on this thread just to see if anything is happening. Damn near impossible to read because several of you keep ruining the place by jousting with obvious troll Borden. He's an idiot, but you're the problem for continuing to pretend he's anything other than a troll.
This is where the top level league thing plays in. If the CSA is only giving credit for the Fifa list to referees working the CPL, then the PRO refs have to work out changes to their MLS availability. If the CSA prefers its top refs to be in PRO, then it creates a perception issue in the domestic league. If you're forcing referees to choose CPL over PRO, they may be forgoing a chance to be on the Fifa list and a chance to go to the World Cup to get games in a higher level league.
I`ll admit that I`m no expert in the referee system so thanks to you guys for this valuable information. So you're implying that if CPL (Canada's domestic league) exist, that would somehow invalid Canadians working in PRO from being on FIFA list which could lead to the World Cup. Is that what I'm understanding? Would that be a FIFA or CSA directive? If the pay is similar, why would a Canadian referee risk being excluded from such opportunity just to referee in MLS? I would think pay, working conditions and workload would matter more than which league is higher than the other.
I was holding on to this but it seems more evident that the Calgary Foothills are very likely to upgrade into a CPL club. The club signed Nik Ledgerwood and Marco Carducci.
A referee from New Zealand is officiating in A League despite New Zealand also having a domestic Championship. (Also Wellington's reserves team plays in the NZ top-flight).
I'm guessing referees will be the least of the league's problems. Way behind losing barrels full of cash.
First, I think it would be tough to equal the pay. The referees in PRO are paid a salary and match fees. The total compensation could put many referees as the highest paid workers in the league. The other issue is up to the CSA who does contribute to PRO. If the CSA decided that a referee's eligibility to be nominated to the Fifa list was based on work in the CPL as the top league, then it may present a problem for referees in PRO today working a lot of MLS games. Now I have no first hand knowledge of salaries, but a number of referees left good jobs to join PRO. Let's take a hypothetical. You're a Canadian PRO who gets a 80k US total salary plus match fees in addition to the fitness, training, and other support from PRO. You've been on the FIFA list. If you had to work a significant number of games in the CPL to keep the FIFA badge, that comes with a cost. Some referees may look at the prestige of the Fifa badge, the limited opportunity to work internationals, and the remote opportunity of a world cup and say I'm paid to referee in a good league and that's enough. Its a difficult situation. I think it's entirely possible the CSA will work with PRO to cover the CPL the same way the USL and NASL worked with PRO. How the CBA with the PRSRA is modified to handle that with respect to match fees and other conditions like opportunities for US referees in Canada v opportunity for Canadian referees in the US, I really have no idea. I do think that when the top referees in Canada are working in MLS its another area where its tough to sell the CPL as an equal, but I'll also note that no one really cares much about the referees until they want to complain about how bad they are.
Lessons Down Under: The Canadian Premier League can learn from Australia https://www.wakingthered.com/2018/2...rom-australia-aleague-cpl-canpl-canada-soccer
Before I spend a lot of time considering the strength of the Australian analogy......can someone tell me which league (already established, well capitalized, higher quality, with national TV rights deals type league) already had teams in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane when the A-league was established?