His point was that these two points, well, they don't exactly contradict each other, but there is a TON of tension between the two of them. If your argument is 1. JoGo should be starting, based on his prowess in Mexico 2. Omar sucks despite his prowess in Mexico you're going to have to show your work.
I don't think i said he is automatic, he needs to go through the whole process like everybody. Omar has been proven that he is not a national team material no matter how good he is in club, he can't compete in international level. He is saying both leagues are even, MLS needs to raise salary cap to $40 million if it wants to remotely compete with Liga MX, period
What process? Players go to a camp for a couple of days and than get selected for first 11 or 23. If the coach sees something he likes in training or the game you might get a call up again.
You are making this about league qualities in the Americas, I don't believe thats a necessary debate, I'm simply saying I don't believe getting LigaMX playing time makes you an automatic NT call-up. We've had so many good LigaMX players at good LigaMX clubs who didn't produce for the NT. I think it might be fair to regard players playing regularly in the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A as must call ups (to give them a chance due to their club form, gotta earn a role with the NT once you are in the squad based on NT form), but LigaMX? Not in my opinion.
Top to bottom yes. Argentina is much like Spain and is dominated by 2-3 above average teams compared to the whole.
I see it differently. If Atlanta United thought the same, they would have gone after some Mexican players, instead, the hit the Argentinian, Uruguayan, etc. leagues for their players.
I agree with you that playing time alone in Liga MX is not an automatic NT call up, but they should get picked before an MLS player. A Europe player getting minutes in top 5 leagues should be picked before Liga MX and MLS. Obviously we don't have enough to produce 23 players so MLS players will have their chance. After evaluations then coach can decide you are not good enough, like Omar.
It is not about the Mexican players that make the Liga MX good, it is the combination of all South American players in the league. There are good Mexican players, but the foreign players is what makes them good. We are talking about leagues not players. If we are talking about players, I would put Brazil, Argentina, Colombia over Mexican players.
Mexican teams, especially in midfield, are always very disciplined - very connected for one thing. Arena believed in midfielders who run around a lot because he thought that was creative and the way we defend. In the end, his midfield was as solid as swiss cheese. The midfield of Toronto was Osorio, Delgado and MB. Seattle's was Roldan, Alonzo and Lodeiro. Columbus: Higuaín, Artur, Trapp. Portland: Chara, Blanco and the MVP, Valeri. Gonzalez, Roldan and Delgado in the same central midfield would be an interesting choice for domestic based contests but I doubt we see it. Add Carleton, or Parks, or McKennie for a diamond, say, if available. I don't think we should pressure Jonathan into signing on with USMNT. Keep the dialogue open. He shouldn't be forced into a big decision at too early an age, imo. If he asks to come onboard I would call him up.
So we should call up Stanko instead of Gonzalez? I don't think so. Shaquelle Moore? uhuh. Morales? Nah. Ditto Chandler. I think the old ways are fading.
Because they play very disciplined in Mexico. Rafa famously said he played badly for Red Buls because he was too good for them. People laughed but there was a truth to that which some might understand and others not. And I say that as somebody who thinks Rafa is over-rated.
Well no one is saying he should walk into the NT and get time simply because he plays in Liga MX. The suggestion is he gets playing time with the NT because his competition is Bradley and Dax. He's better than both. And Omar has nothing to do with this. He shouldn't have started either as both Cameron and Miazga are better than him too.
They are getting Argentinian players because we can pay more than their league. The Mexican league pays much better than ours and therefore, we do not snipe the better Mexican league players. You are mistaking talent of nationality with quality of domestic league.
Why not pick the best players? If thats the guy playing in LigaMX, pick that player. If thats a player playing in MLS, pick that player. Guys playing in the top European leagues deserve an advantage when being considered for the NT because they are playing against the best players in the world. LigaMX is not a good league, nor is MLS. Players in those leagues should need to earn NT call ups based on how they play in those leagues, not only getting playing time in those leagues. We are too good to give out NT spots to players in low level leagues like those two just for the simple fact that they play.
He's better than both, in your opinion. I don't regard LigaMX as a good enough league where you get automatic call ups if you are young and play well. I would regard the process for players in LigaMX getting NT consideration as the process in MLS. You need to show extremely well (one of the best at your position in the league) and at the same time be considered a better option than the others in the league who are doing similarly well. Being young should give you an advantage over older players, but your level of play matters. I think the guys who play (actually play) in the best European leagues should get preferential treatment with initial call ups to the NT. After that, they gotta earn their playing time based on merit. And if they don't play well enough, they should be liable to being dropped from the squad (even if they play in a top league). We all have different opinions on how this should work. If Gonzalez had absolutely destroyed LigaMX, I would say send him onto the NT right away, but based on what I saw ( watched a few games and saw an every touch video of most of the other games), he did not do that. He held his own in a very good team. Thats impressive, but thats also not a player I find to be an egregious non-call to the NT. I don't personally think we qualify for the WC if Adams, Gonzalez, Moore, etc get NT call ups instead of Bradley, McCarty, Zusi. I think he should start getting NT call ups soon, but I think he probably wasn't best 23 in November or October, so I can't say that I am outraged at his lack of call ups so far.
The only caveat I would give to this is that with the money they spend, Monterrey and Tigris have assembled squads that are far superior to anything in this hemisphere. To go up against that squad competition and be a starter is impressive. It is not like he is only playing in cup games or against low table teams. Very few Americans have ever played for either of these two teams. I would put Monterrey and Tigris in Liga MX with teams like Porto, Ajax and Celtic, great teams in lesser leagues. I think Mexican national team players have targeted these teams, while Americans have preferred mid-table to relegation teams in the biggest leagues. If the goal is to get to a top 15 club, not sure which path is better. Certainly, for a striker, playing at Ajax against mostly inferior competition will show up for more goals than playing for Hamburg against mostly superior competition.
I have no idea how @ussoccer97531 can make these post in this thread than make post fighting the exact same sentiment his post in this thread exude in defense of Acosta, who actually deserves to be questioned.
I don't think anyone was suggesting he get called up just because he plays. You'll notice they aren't clamoring for every Liga MX player, only him. What they are suggesting is that he is, in fact, one of the best CM's in a league that's significantly better than MLS. There is a lot of objective evidence for that which doesn't rely completely on the poster's opinion. Because of the DP's, that might not necessarily make him the best CM in MLS, but it seems like he should at the very least have gotten callups ahead of McCarty.
Because he is a comically poor evaluator of talent, and he gets crushes on certain players. When one of his crushes is presented with competition, we suffer through hundreds, if not thousands, of posts where he craps on the competition and anyone who sees the game differently. For years it was Agudelo. It now appears to be McKennie. Lucky us.
That's not the conversation anyone is having though. I've never seen anyone in N/A suggest mins in Liga MX equals a must NT callup. However, Liga MX is a fair amount better than MLS. Its dominance over MLS has never been seen anywhere else globally in the history of this game. Longest win streaks in confederation competition, historically. CONCACAF: 12 – Mexico (ongoing) OFC: 7 – New Zealand (ongoing) UEFA: 6 – England (end of streak 1982) CONMEBOL: 4 – Argentina (end of streak 1970 and 1975); Brazil (end of streak 2013) AFC: 3 – South Korea (end of streak 1998) CAF: 3 – Cameroon (end of streak 1980) Weird thing is you're attempting to make this about leagues and somehow use it as a slight against Gonzalez when he plays in a better league for a superior club at a younger age and is a better player in that better league than guys you constantly write into full NT lineups like Trapp or Agudelo.
Some people don't understand that each player has strengths and weaknesses. US97 thinks McKennie doesn't have any weaknesses period. Others have a hard time letting go when a candidate doesn't measure up in competition for one reason or another, often for reasons beyond the player's control - injury, bad club situation, mismatch with other players or USMNT manager/coaches, bad professional advice, bad agent, etc. One thing Gonzalez does really well is press and win balls. He isnt supposed to make incisive passes at the present time. He has been able to show he can play with senior squad for a winning club and stand out as best of breed at his position because his manager has done a good job with him . By the same token, I could criticize what I think McKennie's salient weakness is at this time but I don't bother because I can see he is a little insecure and trying to figure things out. I don't jump on him so I can push Gonzalez or whomever into the forefront. I expect McKennie's game to expand like I expect Gonzalez's game to expand. People should be thinking more about how we fit as much of the talent in the 23 as we possibly can.