NASL 2017 News Thread

Discussion in 'NASL' started by Sandon Mibut, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I kind of respect RB Leipzig's gangster approach. Their "board" is comprised of former and current RB employees and they make the cost of joining the club ridiculously expensive so that they skirt around the 50+1 rule.

    It's giving a middle finger to the system and no one can do anything.
     
  2. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Does Red Bull technically own a majority of Liepzig?

    I may be recalling this incorrectly, but I thought that German statutes prohibited a corporation (unless 'grandfathered' like Leverkusen and Wolfsburg) from owning more than 49% of a club.

    Come to think of it, does the UEFA statute refer to majority ownership or just a stake...?
     
  3. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #1278 USRufnex, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    I know precisely what I'm talking about.

    You don't.

    So clearly, based on your own criteria, you're the idiot here.

    Next time, maybe you should post something respectful to someone who has an informed opinion about what the new NISA is all about and its desire for a close relationship with the NASL and the NPSL... preferably something that isn't a buncha needlessly opinionated, unfairly anti-Pro/Rel, condescending, holier-than-thou, ridicule filled drivel.

    Or is that gonna be too much to ask?
     
  4. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #1279 ArsenalMetro, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    UEFA interpreted their own rule to mean Salzburg and Leipzig were fine because "no individual or legal entity had a decisive influence over more than one club."

    The statute is included in the article linked below.

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/40348340
     
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  5. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Good info, thanks.
     
  6. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You "know" nothing. You assume, based on your own worldview and biases, just like anybody else.

    And how many of these I/Os genuinely paid over the odds for D1? It's the last handful of franchises. Also, given it's common knowledge that these teams don't pay the franchise fee up front, how much have they paid so far? Couldn't they be compensated? If the Emiratis have only paid 30m, couldn't that be given back? I would've thought the LA FC owners would welcome the ability to try and raise the standard of their team to the level of their city. A world-renowned city like Los Angeles in a brand-new stadium could compete on a global stage. Instead, they probably won't even make it out of a CONCACAF Champions League group.

    Besides, can MLS ever decide whether or not they'd have the money to run a baseball-style pyramid? They tell us they're potless every time there's a CBA negotiation because, God forbid, they'd ever pay the rank-and-file player a reasonable rate for their services. If they were guaranteeing money to lower division clubs in a form of an overall service agreement like MLB, municipalities would be queuing up to build suitable stadia like they do with MiLB. Except they're not. The obvious reason is because MLS, like always, is trying to get their own way through political maneuvering,
     
  7. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Honestly mate, a quick glance at your posting history for the last month shows a majority of content based on you whining, complaining, condescending and insulting people.

    This is the last time I'm ever offering you this piece of advice:

    Take a look in the mirror and own your own behaviour. I'm not saying it's all one way, but in my experience, you've always posted with an "assertive" (to put it kindly) tone and are by absolutely no means above being sarcastic or condescending yourself.

    Maybe you enjoy the confrontation. I don't know. If so, have at it. But you absolutely need to understand that if you dish it out, you have to expect it in return. That's par for the course.

    Note that in that post of Kenn's that you linked, he gives it out then rolls with the punches.

    If, as your posts about cliques, quorums, "biased mods" and feeling victimized are your honest perspective, then I'm telling you once and for all: adopt a more conciliatory approach and grow a thicker skin. You may be surprised at the change in your interactions.
     
  8. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You tell him. Stupid Jon Snow!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The problem is, Dan, there are a lot of posters who've fallen by the wayside. The balance of this board probably changed 8-10 years ago, depending on what sub-forum you were on. When I was at San Jose/Houston in 2008, people were talking about how posters on BigSoccer were old guys who lived in the past and how the board was deteriorating.

    Also, the wider game has changed. It was much easier to defend MLS when they weren't demanding $150m for a franchise in a league they insist cannot stand on its own two feet while insisting players can't receive the ability to negotiate with individual franchises when they're out of contract.

    The footballing world has become more divisive and in some ways, like a lot of web forums that have existed this long, a strange veil of conformism fell over this board, back in maybe 2011. Idiots on both sides but if you disagreed with the boards norms, you were an idiot like Whitestar or whatever his name was. However, this cannot really be discussed because if you talk about mods, you're a whinger and a crybaby. If you talk about bullying, you're mocked as a whinger and a crybaby.

    We're at a point where if you're not a conformist and feel somebody is being a prick, all you can do is call them a prick. Then you get posts like this barroldinho one, as if everything Rufnex says isn't openly mocked by people who add nothing to the board except nastiness and bitching. They're not even funny. The people who remain on this forum seem very happy shouting into their echo chamber and belittling anybody who disagrees.

    This post will no doubt be looked upon as sour grapes. I will openly admit that I have been bombastic in my responses to some people. Partly because they deserve it but partly because this board feels so unmoderated that I try to see how far I can push it, within the bounds of what I consider acceptable.
     
  10. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    When the amount of money that has been sunk into MLS is raised, they aren't talking purely, or even primarily about expansion fees.

    You make them sound like victims, held back by a system that was thrust upon them. They openly elected to invest in a team in a closed league with parity measures.

    That tournament doesn't feature groups anymore.

    Personally, I've grown to favour a league where financial resources are merely one of several factors in a teams chances, rather than the overriding one.

    Indeed, that element is now so strong, that merely being a team in Los Angeles is not getting you within sniffing distance of a Real Madrid. Not unless the 3,456 person strong ownership group are willing and able to regularly shell out 9 figure sums for individual players.

    Everyone maneuvers politically. Read up on the progression from the European Champion Clubs Cup to the latest rules of the UEFA Champions League.

    Then consider the attitude of the Premiership to the rest of the English football pyramid, during the formulation of the "Elite Player Performance Plan".

    The payment of the rank-and-file also returns me to my earlier point: if pro/rel does all that is claimed, then all you need is a collection of investors with the same will to make it work that Lamar Hunt and co possessed with MLS, and it should be cake. If pro/rel does all that is claimed, poaching the poorly compensated role-players from MLS should be a breeze.

    Yet those that claim to believe in the system and these unspecified dormant venture capitalists, for some reason are reluctant to do it. Why?
     
  11. SierraSpartan

    SierraSpartan Member+

    Jan 25, 2007
    Placer County, CA
    Club:
    Sacramento Republic FC
    Translation: "Blah-blah-blah. I don't like you, you're a poopy-head with opiniony opinions that opine on things." (shrug) Fair enough.

    Still doesn't get to the point of the issue, which is seen in the statement I posed at the end of the post you quoted - and I submit a challenge to any of the pro-relots that may be lurking about: When has a pro-rel system EVER worked successfully in the American professional sporting landscape?
     
  12. SierraSpartan

    SierraSpartan Member+

    Jan 25, 2007
    Placer County, CA
    Club:
    Sacramento Republic FC
    Hey, give me something besides a buncha needlessly opinionated, slavishly pro-pro/Rel, condescending, and idiotic drivel, and we can have a civil conversation.

    It's not my fault that your skin is so thin as to be practically transparent.
     
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  13. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The vast majority of MLS' value came from the public purse, not expansion fees. Who do you think paid for most of those stadiums?

    What other viable option did they have? If they wanted to be part of an ownership group of a top division team in the United States, there's no other option that to be part of MLS. They chose to invest in MLS, yes, but that's the only game in town. Just as Jorge Vergara wanted to have a Mexican League team in Los Angeles and ended up with an MLS franchise in Los Angeles. The USSF has taken away any choice in the matter.

    My mistake, playing too much old FM.

    I would prefer a league where there aren't antiquated rules and mechanisms and some supposedly-benign overlord that actually favours certain investor/operators.

    And would that be Real Madrid and its 90,000 members? Another structure that exists in the game worldwide but isn't allowed.

    Well, I covered EPPP when I was on the Crystal Palace beat and it wasn't a political thing as much straight up blackmail. Adopt these rules, we'll give you money. Don't adopt these rules, who knows what money you'll get. MLS can't do that because, as they always remind us, they don't have the money.

    It's not about promotion and relegation and I'm not even discussing that. I'm saying that this league is single entity. Single entity allows MLS to ignore FIFA's transfer rules because it acts like one big club. If you allowed individual teams to sign players - essentially doing away with single entity - and introduce competition over normal players, their value goes up because you've created an open market where there was previously no market at all.

    Right now, if you manage to navigate the minefield of college soccer, the draft, roster rules, D2 affiliates and/or B-teams and buck the trend to actually make an MLS roster while competing with whatever cheap labour from the Caribbean and Central America these owners bring in, you're likely still only going to get sub-100k from your second MLS contract. Either accept it or go abroad. If there's a genuine open market among D1 clubs, other clubs will covet him and when there's competition, market forces take over. He will earn more money, that's simple economics. It's not like he's going to earn less because MLS offers as little as they can get away with right now.

    To return to your original point, on promotion and relegation, what's the point of investing in a lower league club if you can't conceivably improve your position through on-field success? Even great footballing philanthropists like Andy Pilley had something to aim for, which was getting his local club into a higher league.
     
  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Well that's new.
     
  15. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    See, this is the issue. You choose not to debate anything. Why waste my time on you? You just ignore my points because you're too blinkered to do anything else.

    If you want a promotion and relegation debate, how about you inform yourself and not just live in your soccer bubble? It's a system where you could go around the world and look at any number of sports and see a system that, for better or worse, works for the sport as a whole in that country. Some countries and sports have abandoned it and returned to it, some sports guard it with their lives because it's the only way to make professionalism viable at lower levels. I can name probably a handful of successful closed systems but they're in sports that are niches themselves worldwide but wildly popular in the territories they play, which fits with things like AFL. Has it ever been tried in any sport in the US? I've not seen it. I have seen every professional closed soccer league collapse except the ones that are still going, who all had their own evolutionary bottleneck. Which of these upstart pro football leagues have made it? None. Something like 29 independent baseball leagues have died since the mid-90s.

    You're asking me to justify something that works a lot more and in a much more robust way than the shambles you justify.
     
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  16. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well since the last few pages had nothing of news and almost no references to NASL, but lots of bombastic grand standing it's time for my obligatory mod warning to all to stay on topic and be civil. Cards will be issued for repeat offenders etc etc

    It's almost like the plague cycles in Crusader Kings, happens every few months.
     
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  17. amancalledmikey

    Oct 27, 2003
    I have a bindle at this point...
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Business as usual then.
     
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  18. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have news of sorts. Indy isn't in discussion with USL at the moment and Belskus is being very vague about next years plans. My guess is they're waiting on what USSF says after NASL resubmits next week.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...tatus-thrown-into-doubt-once-again/633506001/
     
  19. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Best reference ever! However, I'm more of a fan of CKII.
     
  20. SierraSpartan

    SierraSpartan Member+

    Jan 25, 2007
    Placer County, CA
    Club:
    Sacramento Republic FC
    OK. Toss insults all you like, then. It's not going to move the needle on the US Soccer Pyramid a jot or a tittle. All it does is make you look like the closed-minded individual you appear to be.

    It is regrettable that something like pro-rel - which ostensibly work in Europe and CONMEBOL and elsewhere - will not work here in the States. Myself, I'd be open to the concept if it could be applied fairly - which it will not, because no team who is currently at the "major" level will put that "major" standing to jeopardy. If Sounders or LA Galaxy were at risk of relegation to USL or another D-2 league, somebody somewhere would pull quite a few strings or otherwise change rules and standards to prevent that from happening.

    NISA and NPSL attempting to do something at the lower echelons is intriguing, but NASL coming in to offer its own unique brand of "assistance" will surely kill that effort deader than dog crap, because NASL has proven itself to be the polar opposite of the Midas touch ever since its inception.

    Having said that, I'm almost dead positive that NASL will get a last-second reprieve from USSF, if for no other reason then to keep the Cosmos alive...as a cautionary tale.
     
  21. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I was referring to the losses made by the league in the early days. The subsidies, the capital calls, the fact that in 2002, MLS hit the brink of extinction but the owners decided to press on.

    That's the type of leadership needed.

    Nobody forced them to invest in anything though. I don't get the impression that they feel hobbled by the situation. Indeed, they're likely in a far better position than most first year clubs.

    An LA team in Liga MX could have opened a colossal can of worms and you can't blame USSF for not letting that fly.

    We can argue semantics but it's the same kind of outcome as we've seen born out time and again when you just let the market decide.

    I'm with you to a point here. There's enough mechanisms in place that MLS should be able to allow free agency without costs spiralling.

    With that said, you talk about the "accept MLS pay or go abroad" like the latter isn't something that's a widespread practice in global soccer.

    Unless you happen to have been born in a nation with a top 5 league, then if you're worth your salt, odds are you'll be moiving abroad eventually.

    It circles back again: if NASL wanted to compete, MLS's penny-pinching was an "in".
     
  22. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS doesn't penny pinch, they pay what players are worth. If NASL had offered Americans and Canadians more money they would have just gotten all the MLS hacks and bench warmers and MLS would have back filled those slots with random USL players and kept the marquee DPs. There wouldn't have been much of a drop in overall play.

    I'm going to take issue with the idea that any player worth a salt plays in the big 5 Euro leagues. There are hundreds of guys in Mexico, Brazil and Argentina playing in their domestic leagues who are millionaires without ever flying to Europe. In those countries "footballer" is a viable career choice. The Ascenso in Mexico pays around the same as MLS, you can be a career 2nd Division guy and make $250k a year. The U.S. just isn't there yet, and NASL wasn't about to carry $10 million salary budgets.
     
  23. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's fair. I think I botched that post, which will happen when you post on a smartphone late at night, typing with your elbows.

    I was basically trying to say that relocation is part and parcel of being a professional footballer. A large percentage of players will play abroad at some point in their career. My reference to the "top 5" was simply meant to say that due to the profile and prosperity of those leagues, there's more chance of their homegrown players staying in their native country. I didn't mean to imply that any player worth his salt would eventually move to such a league.

    In fact the "worth his salt" statement was a bit harsh. Just because you don't transfer abroad, doesn't mean you suck. Though I would say that the more talented you are, the greater chance you'll be courted by countries in different nations.

    The overall argument I was making in the context of this discussion, was that the statement "Either accept it or go abroad" carries a bit of a misleading tone IMO. It sounds like a sharp ultimatum and suggests that players are stuck at the mercy of MLS. That only rings true if "going abroad" is some dire last resort, rather than the reasonable and viable option it clearly is.

    In the cases where it isn't a viable option, then in most cases the players are either an unknown quantity, or they aren't worth significantly more than they're getting in MLS as it is.
     
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  24. When Saturday Comes

    Apr 9, 2012
    Calgary
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Probably not the place but ...... How has pro/rel "ostensibly worked" in Europe, SA and elsewhere? If p/r wasn't in Brazil would they have one fewer World Cups? Developed less top class players? Has there ever been a situation a pro/rel system and a closed system competed side by side so we can see which one is better?
     
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  25. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Well Australia is the top nation in Rugby League and New Zealand are the best in Rugby Union and both their respective top flights are closed leagues, whereas their competing European nations tend to use open leagues.

    France is shaking up Rugby Union at club level though, by throwing cash at the top flight of their open system.

    That doesn't necessarily make one better than the other, but it does pour some cold water over this notion that pro/rel inherently optimises youth development.

    I'd actually be interested to see an NASL or other rival D1, rise up and employ the system, to see how they coexist (or not as the case may be).
     

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