I can't speak to Kareem as he was before my time, but LeBron is the best I ever saw over Kobe, Duncan, or Shaq.
So far your arguments are "that's garbage" and "lmao". I've seen them both play - please make the case for "eons above". And include the reason why he was swept by Luke Walton when his team had the best record in the NBA.
I would love to remove athleticism from the GOAT argument because then I would try to argue that Steph is the greatest offensive player ever. Can't do it though. I reaaaaally hope Miami gets Irving. Cleveland @ Miami games, Wizards vs Heat vs Celtics point guard matchups, all interesting regular season and potential postseason games.
Look at hakeems longevity at the top he won with the bucks. Had skilled mov s and didn't rely on his athleticism and strength as he played with elegance and skill vs top cs in the games history Look at his titles and impact Duncan is also above lebron imo Colluding really hurt lebron legqcy imo and he needed a Cavs super team vs warriors I feel like a younger Spurs could of beaten them myself
Longevity matters but it's just one factor and for half his career he was on the Lakers which was Magic's team and he was often just a passenger. Robert Parish and Garnett played more seasons. I love Duncan but I don't think he's better than Lebron. Heck, if Shaq had stayed fit and focused, I'd say he's better than Duncan but for me, he's hurt by his lack of consistency. But to be honest, I'd probably take Duncan over Kareem. Kareem was obviously a great player, but I also think he wasn't the kind of guy who worked hard on team chemistry and making everyone better as a team the way other greats have. His success has come with alpha dog guys like Magic and Oscar.
Top 5 of all time is reserved for MVP caliber players that, through their leadership or individual dynamism, willed their teams to multiple finals and were able to REPEAT as champions. Sorry, Timmy.
It means he's the best power forward of all time! But not top 5 overall. Everyone else we're talking about has multiple rings, repeats, and, let's not forget, better numbers and performance than TD. He's a great centerpiece of a great franchise, but he's not the individual player that these other guys are. No repeat is a major ding on every Spur's resume. For them to be that good, that well put together, and shit the bed every other year is a mark against them. They didn't even get to back-to-back finals until 2014...
So if he had melted off and formed a super team he would be ok? He won a chip as arguably the best player on his team as a rookie
Funny that if Ray Allen doesn't hit the most clutch of clutch shots there would be a huge difference in how some see the careers of Tim Duncan, Lebron James, etc...
What do you mean "ok"... argue the point -- he's not as good an individual basketball player as LeBron James. James has more MVPs, James has better numbers, James has repeated, James has 7 straight finals as the leader and best player on his team.
Yeah - I personally don't think the repeat thing rules him out. Barring a Fisher miracle, a Ginobili brainfart and a Ray Allen clutch shot (combined with Ginobili and KL missing free throws, Pop not putting Duncan back in for some odd reason to rebound, and an extremely rare comeback), we might be talking about 3 more titles. But otherwise agree with the conclusion - he's not better than some of those others.
I know we like to call the Heat a super team, but to be fair, Wade was a shell of his former self and sort of a weird mix with LBJ, Bosh was a midrange shooting big man who was probably a good mix with LBJ, and a bunch of bargain basement role players. Is that a super team? LBJ takes blame for losing to the Mavericks and Spurs, but it's not like the rest of the guys were playing great is it? Current GSW team seems much more like a super team to me.
If this Cleveland team or the Heat are considered super teams there's no way that Duncan didn't play on multiple super teams coached by the best coach in the game over the course of his career.
Not sure I agree with that - Duncan did have a second star in Robinson, although he was at the end of his career, but super teams? Aside from Robinson at the end of his career and I guess Kawhi at the start - did he really have a true superstar alongside him?
Parker and Manu is a backcourt light years ahead of any backcourt LeBron's ever had supporting him, and Duncan had that duo for a lot of his career. Duncan also had Kawhi for a bit when he was coming into his own, and he's probably a much better two-way player than anyone LeBron's ever played with. Spurs have always drafted well, and found low-level FAs that Popovich often coached into good role players, so Duncan has rarely wanted for good role players or depth on the Spurs, unlike James" Heat and to a lesser extent his second Cavs teams. If we look at supporting casts and situations, Duncan has had the luxury of on average much more help that is much better-coached than LeBron James over the course of both their careers. So if we're going to call all James' team post-Decision "super-teams", then Duncan must've had a number of "super-teams" himself over the course of his career too.
I Personally do not think Lebron even played for a superteam, because my definition for superteam forever been "take one superstar out of that team, and see if they can still contend + win". GSW fits that bill, if you take Curry or Durant out they are capable of winning anywhere.I dont think any of Lebron teams fit that bill if you take him out of it.The records testify that when he is on & off those teams.
LeBron led Drew Gooden and Delonte West to separate finals as his second best players.. That's crazy.
I personally wouldn't call that Cav team a super team, especially since Love just turned out to be a paper superstar. I also don't think I rate Kyrie as much as he does. To be a super team, I think you probably need at least 3 All Star (can make the Olympic team) players and who would be the number 1 star on a different team. I don't think any of Duncan's teams were super teams.
That was an amazing season and he was awarded the MVP for it... he's also a 40% career shooter. Love AI, just saying he's nowhere near this discussion.