NISA (New NASL-allied D3 league) Mega-Thread

Discussion in 'NASL' started by oneeyedfool, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's June 8. These as-yet unannounced teams that have (apparently) just been waiting for this league to come along have about nine months to get everything in order if they are going to kick a ball in spring 2018. It is not easy to sell 3-5k tickets per game in most places without a decent startup time.

    Plus, one might assume these would be markets currently without teams or with amateur teams, which presents challenges either way.

    I know for an absolute certainty that's not why.
     
  2. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems unlikely, though we live in unlikely times.

    First things first: if the NASL meets D2 requirements (or most of them), is there any reason to believe they would not get sanctioned? Everything up to this point, including the Solomonic decision of last winter, points to USSF not wanting to kill leagues, the NASL especially.

    While it's more desirable and less chaotic to have only one league at each given level, it is not against their regs and if you take the long view, 2018 is just one year out of many.
     
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  3. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #28 USRufnex, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
    But why? Most fans want it, Peterson/NASL/Cosmos threatened a lawsuit over it, while Edwards/USL still gives it a wink and a nod whenever asked about it.

    Why not be upfront with potential owners and state Pro/Rel is a long term goal from the beginning? I assume Wilt said as much in his presentation to the NASL BOG and I know for a fact that Pro/Rel was a surprisingly prominent part of his presentation at the NPSL general meeting.

    I'm starting to get sick of USSF's largely aspirational 2nd division standards which no lower league can fully satisfy. USSF needs to start over with some baseline standards which all pro lower division clubs (not leagues) must meet, then get out of the way and allow for some overlap rather than take actions which encourage "provisional" financial stratification between divisions.

    Peter Wilt's NISA Goal = More bridges, fewer walls

    They'll have a choice between defecting to USL D2 or moving to NISA D3.
    The NASL would have too much baggage to exist as a D3 league after losing its D2 status.
     
  4. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://sbisoccer.com/2017/06/the-nasl-needs-to-solve-its-own-problems-before-backing-the-new-nisa

    I found this article very interesting. The only problem is the idea of Edmonton going to the Canadian Premier League (though I still would prefer they do so), but realistically, the remaining NASL teams are on thin ice. Sure, they can expand all they want, but if it's always addition by subtraction, the league will stay in this mess where they keep going to USSF for exemptions while simultaneously picking fights with USL & MLS.

    Best to ensure your home is in good standing before expanding your empire.
     
  5. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The fact that the NASL threatened a lawsuit over it is evidence enough. The lawsuit was a distraction from the real problems facing the league and certainly didn't help the league move forward.

    I actually agree with your second point. The USSF regulations for different leagues serve little purpose. You are the league you are. I hope Wilt's league works out, and if it grows organically in the right way and pro/rel becomes feasible, I would be interested in watching what happens. But that isn't where the league is now (Ok, the league isn't anywhere now, but we're speculating on how it will turn out).

    The NASL at this point is barely a viable entity. If your long-term goal is to be tied to the NASL, there's a very good chance it won't be there in the long-term, or if it just limps along, it isn't something that you'd want to be connected to. The league had better have a solid business model without pro/rel at its base.

    I'm not against the league at all - I like more soccer - but this is about the business of it. Doesn't it seem a little weird that there's going to be a new league starting nine months from now with no teams or locations named and the announcement made on midfieldpress? pro/rel is just the sizzle being used to sell the steak since right now there isn't any steak to see.
     
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  6. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On Twitter, Wilt/NISA mentioned they'll know by August/September if they have sanctioning, and are considering announcing all the teams at once or slightly staggered. So that's...6 to 7 months lead up time after being officially announced?
     
  7. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #32 Baysider, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
    I thought a good point in that article was that the NISA undercuts the NASL. Wilt's option seems likely to be the cheapest option to join a professional minor league. This puts a lot of pressure on the USL2 to keep its entrance fee low, making that venture less attractive to USL management. But, as the article says, why also pay the NASL expansion fee when the NISA gets you basically the same thing plus an option to join the NASL later.

    The plan for the NISA expansion seems logical if a little bit too much "you be the Don". It posits expansion to 24 teams (in 4 divisions) in 4 years. Once it hits 24, there will be promotion up to some unnamed D2 league with the NISA backfilled through expansion. Once the D2 gets to 20, relegation starts back down to D3. This makes it a little easier to do since teams that join D2 do so knowing that they might get relegated (aside from the original D2 teams). I always thought that the USL should do this, build a wide D3 (more like 48 teams rather than 24 teams), then, if there are enough teams with solid finances at a higher level, calve off a D2 league. I think this was Triplet's point in an old thread, it's easier to get people to agree with pro/rel if you begin by promoting everyone up.
     
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  8. The One X

    The One X Member+

    Sep 9, 2014
    Indiana
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    The option to get into the NASL later doesn't necessarily exclude having to pay an expansion fee. The pessimistic outlook is the NISA will undercut the NASL, but the optimistic outlook is it provides a place for teams who are on the fence of jumping straight to D2 or might not have the assets to go to D2 a place to start that is lower risk, but could eventually be turned into a D2 club. Now the realistic outlook is in some ways it will undercut the NASL, and in some ways it will provide a launching point to the NASL. I think the NISA would be a good starting point for the Atlanta and Phoenix clubs that are eyeing the NASL.
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) Anyone who lived through the late 90s when, basically, almost anyone could get a franchise and more than 70 percent of them failed should not rail against the USSF standards. In THIS country, with our checkered past and the preponderance of people who thought they were super smart and would surely make it work, only to bail early, they need to be draconian.

    2) Since when is the cheap option good for the sport? I am skeptical they are going to magically come up with 24 teams in three years (and not lose ANY). Those who have decried the USL's rapid expansion or that of MLS can't in the next breath be all about a pop up league growing that fast. And I love, love, love Peter, but there are still laws of physics in this universe: you drop a hammer, it does not fall up. We are in a golden age, but that doesn't mean we will have 100+ pro teams in the next few years. (We have 60 now, the all-time record is 79, set in 1998 and most of those were crap.)

    3) All that said, bring it on. Competition is good for everybody. If there really are all these investors just waiting to get in on the NISA, let's see them. If they can all put together quality organizations, absolutely, let's see Pro/rel. The biggest point holding it back* has been a lack of quality organizations at one level that could conceivably move up. (Especially in our short time between seasons and infrastructure differences.) But, hell, bring it. You can create a league - something that has proven to be a challenge - go for it.





    *Except for, you know, the cabals that don't want people to have nice things and apparently just aren't hip enough to see all the supposed business benefits.
     
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  10. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pro/rel was mentioned & USRufnex comes out of his cave to bitch to the unbelievers.

    Joy.
     
  11. bnyc

    bnyc Member

    Jan 20, 2015
    New York
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Kenn, do you think Pro/Rel folks understand the number of quality organizations required. As if teams that go down just produce the same revenue as they did in the higher league; you know, like Rochester or teams throughout Europe that go down and then go bankrupt. What happens to NISA's 24 team program when one of their best clubs moves up and down comes a team who's revenues drop off and the team then drops out?

    I wish NISA all the best but fast timelines are elusive and stability changes from year to year.
     
  12. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #37 USRufnex, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
    No.

    I have a keen interest in what Peter Wilt does because if successful it will affect my club(s) and my city in a positive way.

    Belittle, condescend, ridicule... marginalize.

    Typical tactics of anti-Pro/Rel "unbelievers" who refuse to acknowledge this new league has a goal of Promotion/Relegation.
     
  13. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #38 USRufnex, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
  14. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To most pro/rel advocates, pro/rel solves everything simply because it's pro/rel. However, they fail to factor in that relegation hurts more than pride; it hurts your income. People don't want to pay as much to see you, and the television & sponsorship deals stink compared to the top flight.

    Feasibility is important in the sense that a demotion doesn't seem like a death penalty, but that requires a strong infistructure to support this. And, right now, NASL is nowhere close to it.
     
  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Peter Wilt was on Sirius XM DC's United States of Soccer earlier this week. NISA in theory is a good idea. How it actually turns out in practice will be something to see. The short time table is worrying, particularly from a buildup standpoint. By this I mean: building fanbases, selling actual season tickets and game tickets, selling prospective sponsors on a product that does not currently exist, finding appropriate venues to play in, scheduling games in said venues, etc.

    I get the whole "Independent" Soccer club/team concept, but can it actually work and be sustainable in North America? Peter speaks of the teams owning the league.....yet what was is the point of having ownership of something that has no tangible benefit to you? The owners in MLS own the league, and the league works with and for them. What is NISA"s purpose? Will the league help struggling teams, or just leave them to their own devices?

    In theory it's a nice idea, but it seems to be more pie in the sky dreamer material, then something that has a concrete and proven business plan for sustained success and stability.
     
  16. annapolis

    annapolis Member

    Jul 3, 2001
    You know this hole thread had me pretty confused. Sounds ridiculous to try to start a league on such short notice. On the other hand, from what I'm hearing, Wilt is a pretty competent guy. The only explanation that makes sense to me is these will be existing teams (NPSL?), not new teams.
     
  17. Fracas

    Fracas Member

    Jun 20, 2015
    Tulsa, OK USA
    I don't think they are looking at many start up teams, more likely npsl teams looking to inch up but not all the way to d2
     
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  18. oneeyedfool

    oneeyedfool Member+

    Nov 17, 2012
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe there may only be one or two "new" teams in the first batch of 8-10. The others have been planning teams for a while. Vast majority of teams already have venues, season ticket holders etc but would need to ramp up efforts for the next level.
     
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  19. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    So what's the wild speculation? Who will it be?

    Detroit seems plausible.
     
  20. The One X

    The One X Member+

    Sep 9, 2014
    Indiana
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    I'm betting on Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Hartford. Everyone else no idea. I'm also betting they only have 8 teams for the first season instead of the desired 10.
     
  21. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the idea of pro/rel with this new league is premature. Even Wilt said its the end game but its not even an official plan yet. I might have missed it, but I don't remember reading anything about how the NPSL felt about its best teams moving on to NISA. My guess is we are a long way out before the NPSL and NASL agree to lose/gain teams as part of this system. And knowing the NASL, their whole ownership/leadership might change in 5 years and have a completely different idea of how things should be run.
     
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  22. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Accidentally posted this in NASL News thread, but Detroit City is about 95% in.

    NISA did actually talk with Duluth FC, but they are not joining at this time. Everything else is speculation.

    And having interviewed Hartford City, NISA could be a great fit for them, especially after they earn the trust of the city and renovate Dillon, but I don't see them joining next year. Think of more established NPSL teams with good crowds. Birmingham, Chattanooga, Little Rock and the like.
     
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  23. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder how many successful future NISA teams will even want to move to the nasl.
     
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  24. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It would truly be the greatest thing ever if NASL teams tanked so that they could be relegated to the NISA.
     
  25. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I can only assume that's an attempt to troll the nasl, my concern is that there isn't any incentive to "move up". Sure playing more games and having pros vs amateurs will help teams like DCFC, would moving up to NASL after that really help them? Would FC Edmonton draw more than say Chattanooga FC?
     

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