Review: 2018 WC Qualifying - Towards winning our first WC title: А дело бывало -- и коза волка съедала.

https://streamable.com/gc1i

 

This game was a typical game Holland would have under Van Marwijk or even Van Gaal during qualifiers. Possession for the dutchs, a certain fluidity in the ball movements, the only problem with this 4-3-3 is that you always end up spreading the ball on the wings and having nobody able to make a difference. Janmaat made it on the goal, came inside and put a decent shot with his left foot, that was unexpected after he always tried to cross.
Promes is failing in this aspect, I think some people have been overating his dribbling abilities, the russian game is pretty open, Ozbiliz used to do some great stuff with Spartak too and last year he has been totally unable to impress in Spain.
Promes is a decent dribbler, but he is far to be a top one, he will never do what Robben does. That being said, if he can compensate with collective playing like he did tonight, I will still like him. I've noticed in the past how able he is to link up with the full backs, he will always considers them , that's something Robben is failing to do sometimes and that can be boring, several full backs complained about him. It's not even about effectivness, it's about respect. I like to see players respecting each other on the pitch.

The defence looks ok for me, Bruma seems to have lost his magic of the last season, I would replace him with Vlaar. People want de Vrij, but De Vrij had some horrible mistakes with both NT and Lazio just before to get injured.
Vlaar is still above De Vrij in my notes. He was his boss during the world cup.
Then for the full backs it all depends on the configuration we decide to use but we have enough options I guess.

I think we should change some things for the midfield, as Oranje14 said, one runner is enough, Klaassen or Wijnaldum, or Van Ginkel if he is fit for next games. Not two.
I'm not happy with Strootman as DM, I would prefer someone with a profile à la Ake or Ayoub. More handling speed and grit in the defensive interventions. I even suspect Riedewald can do a better job than Strootman, he is quicker and has a sweet long pass. Strootman gave some sweet passes tonight that Riedewald is able to give too.

 

Did you not think that the fullbacks were very restricted in their going forward? áleyBlind when he played at Manu/LB he went forward not super often but regularly, putting in crosses, going to the goalline. Janmaat as everyone should know is only really viable as a RB unless you get him running into the opponents third, the more the better.

This is just real basic shit though, if you are bunkered against you need attacking fullbacks for penetration and in Janmaats case the occasional chaotic situations he creates when he overlaps on the inside.

I dont think we were much better than Sweden like some say. They bunkered, we had no ability to play through the middle(or left wing) and failed trying all the time. Our midfielders and forwards didnt get ''between'' the defensive lines to create oppertunities. Midfield was really crappy positioning wise, its was like we were playing with 5 attackers and 5 defenders, none between them to make play. But worst of all, we didnt exploit the spaces on the sides which are the weaknesses of a bunker approach. Our fullback were not consistantly exploiting those spaces, and Im gonna give credit to Janmaat for taking the initiative because it seems very much like he has been restricted by papa Blind to play the role of a defensive RB which nobody should want him to do.

Looking at this game as a progression from all the previous games, I dont see anything to be positivie about papa Blind. A mediocre playing Janmaat defying papa Blind is what it looks like to me gave us the draw.

 

I didn't have this feeling, at least not for Janmaat who has been trying a lot. Even made Promes to play for him. Had some shitty crosses but also some decent ones and did his thing on the goal.
Blind on the other hand seemed to be more shy but attacking is not his strenght, I didn't expect much from the left side Sneijder/Blind before to watch the game, obviously there would be no penetration there.
Now, if Papa Blind went for Willems or PVA, it would mean more defensive mistakes and not necessarly better attacks, Willems has been poor in this aspect too lately.
I think PVA should have come as sub during second half.

I agree about the unability to play between lines. Actually this swedish team is pretty poor, there was enough space to do much more than what we did. This is a problem of quality for sure, players like Wijnaldum and Klaassen are just not really able to combine cleverly and quickly. That's why some people here define them as runners, all we expect from them is to get chances in the box like Klaassen had tonight, but we don't expect anything from them in the building up.

Look at this goal by Denmark against a bunkering Armenia two days ago :



Looks pretty easy, right ? Fischer made the goal with that backheel pass. That's exactly a goal we could have scored few years ago with Van der Vaart and Van Persie upfront.
We had many situations like this tonight where I was waiting for a dutch player to give this type of pass while being around the box but it never happened. I thought Janssen and Promes could do it but they didn't.
We are just too stereotypical and slow in the middle, even with a good Janssen who is definitly an upgrade to Huntelaar in terms of combinations and nice football. Midfielders spread the ball to the wings, and then nothing happens most of the time.

 

I think we played good, however, there are some points that need to be improved.

1. Goalkeeping looks like an issue. We don't really have a GK with a complete profile i.e. Good shot stopper, good at PKs, good in distributing the ball and sweeping his area when needed. I think Steklenburg, if fit, should be the first option though.

2. I think Oranje has the best selection of defenders in ages "may be since 2004", but it need to be organized in a better way.
I like Blind as a Left CB. He is also not that great going forward as LB.
Van Dijk was really sensational. He should pair up with Blind in the center and I think they are solid enough for top level. Let's see how De vrij and Litschert will do in Calccio this season.
On the left, I'd like to try Hendrix and Kongolo. The former really has it all for a left back imo. Good vision, good speed, good pass and more importantly, good defending skills. Unless we're playing with 3-5-2, please no more Willems on the left.
For RB, Tete , Janmaat or Diks shall compete. But as far as I like Janmaat going forward, he is a terrible defender. He could have costed us another early goal in the 2nd half if it wasn't for van Dijk yesterday.

3. I am not sure how should we go, regarding formation in midfield and Attack. Should we go with 4-3-3 or better go with 4-4-2, especially with the lack of quality wingers. I prefer 4-4-2.

4. NDJ should be called in the next games, he will now have the chance to play with sneijder on daily basis and that should work pretty good for us. There has been always a great understanding between these guys. I have hopes for Ramselaar, but so I did for Sinkhraven. Let's see how this season goes for them, same with Bazoer and Ayoub.
Strootman is a runner imo, not a defender.
Klaassen, Wijnaldum, Ginkel, Propper, Fer, De guzman, Siem de Jong ... etc. well, let's say we only need one of these guys in our squad. Only one.

5. I'd like RvP back. You may disagree, but he is a better sub than Luuk de Jong and bas Dost. Far better actually. Robben and Jansen should pair up front and this should work really well. Elia, if in form, is also an option i'd really like.

 

Well, van Gaal did. He came up with the Feyenoord tactics as a response to his injury. If Stroot was healthy, he probably would have played a conservative/defensive 4-3-3 and we probably wouldnot have made it out of the group.

 

That is because he somehow got the idea that he is able to get to the back line, instead of doing what he is great in...delivering passes into the box from the side of the midfield. He really should stop acting like a winger. He sucks at that and Cocu should kick him in the balls at PSV, when he ignores that fact.

 

Uhm, in order to put crosses into the box doesnt he have to play more like a winger, and less like a defender?? Your post makes no sense.

Getting back to yesterday's game the second half was reason for optimism I thought, and we really should have won this game. But that's how Football goes

 

Yesterday I was trying to remember about some great games I've seen from NT, and the one against Iceland in 2009 came to my mind...

Please people, look at those two chances at 1:42 and 2:00. This is some top quality football. Now just be honest, can we play such a football with players like Wijnaldum and Klaassen in the middle ? Of course no. They have neither the vision or passing abilities to do this. Maybe you can get such a football from Nouri if he developps, but you won't get it with our current midfielders.



I really miss those years, we had to argue about RVP/Kuyt, Sneijder/VDV...It was always a competition of quality.

 

How about taking out Wijnaldum in the right midfield (he can be a sub for Sneijder or Klaassen) and replaces him with Janmaat? Janmaat can be a decent right midfield who helps out attack and you don't have to worry about his defense liability? He nearly cost us a goal, but helped to create the opportunity for us to equalize (an assist) which Wijnaldum or any right midfield fails to do. I watched the highlights again and we missed quite a number of chances....We should have won this game.

 

VdV was such an artist. Pity he never fulfilled his real potential.

 

No, I said he should do what he was good at, from the (side of) midfield delivering passes/crosses into the box. Not trying to be a winger that goes passed the defender and then get a ball from the back line into the box. He sucks at that.

 

Probably it was never there. You cannot call someone having a certain real level if he never has shown it. But on the other hand I would say about him that he has shown a very good level, although not very long.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2016/9/7/12819872/holland-sweden-2018-world-cup-qualifying

The writer thinks that we are still trying to figure out our new identity and does not believe Blind is the right man.

 

True, and no back or winger should try to reach the back line and cross, way to easy to defend with the center packed in modern football. The back that overlaps the winger and then immediately puts the ball behind the defense is what is ideal currently.

 

The difference is night and day. That real feeling on the ball.



Van der Vaart linked up way better with Van Persie than Sneijder ever did.

 

Passing from the backline is like a strafcorner. Still very dangerous and way more effective than those half line crosses we see nowadays. Willems is more the exception to the rule imo.

 

Ah okay, so you mean middle midfield in a 4-3-3 then??

 

VdV had the technique, but he never had the speed. If he was as quick as Robben, Overmars or Zenden he'd be world class right now

 

1. I thought we needed wingers BADLY yesterday. promes tried, but he's just not that impressive. it's embarrassing that the dutch are running out there with guys like promes and berghuis. we need Memphis on the team badly. A group of wingers like Memphis, Robben, el Ghazi, Kishna need to be on the squad.

2. Janssen is fantastic. He is so physical. I absolutely LOVE his game. he needs help up front. I would definitely love to see RvP back in a bench role. his class is still there.

3. We actually have some good central defenders now. Van Dijk, Blind, de Vrij and maybe Vlaar can all play there. I'd bring de Vrij in and pair him up with van Dijk and put Blind at LB. At RB Janmaat played decent yesterday, but he is such a liability in defense. I actually wouldn't mind putting fosu mensah there right now even though he's young and doesn't play much at Man U. he's just so much more dynamic.

4. in midfield we just have so many of the same type of players. I like Sneijder, Strootman, Wijnaldum (even though Wijnaldum didn't really do that well yesterday). I think Strootman just needs more time to get in a groove at Roma. He'll be fine.

 

Now we have argue about the better mediocre player..

Stuff like this, you learn on the street. No academy can get you to do this.

 

I'm not going to argue about that

Certainly not about that

 

Not everything is about speed, some of the most class football players were relatively slow, starting with Zidane.

VDV was a pure genius 10, great technical abilities, vision, shot...His only problem was mental, and he was injury prone too.

VDV had a problem with the pressure, tended to show off during qualifiers/ group stage games and disappear in big games, which was all the opposite of Sneijder who could be average as f*** but compensate with a goal/assist in a crucial game.

 

I would say four. Don't forget the generation of De Boer, Davids, Van Nistelrooy, Kluivert, Stam, Seedorf, etc..