I'll go ahead and give this thread a revival bump. SKC players look absolutely done with Vermes. They bark and snap at each other, Besler wears the armband but Benny is the acting 'leader' on the pitch....and he's the field version of P.V.: constantly barking and yelling at everyone, and nothing is ever his fault. Peter sets a horrible example in his leadership style and his refusal to adjust his offensive tactics (i.e. - Dwyer never playing with a proper striking partner) is resulting in a sinking ship that slowly began taking on water three years ago. I'm ready for something new.
Nope, unless PV has completely lost the lockerroom, which I doubt or else there'd be more moves being made, there's no way PV is getting fired.
Unfortunately, I think you're right. I guess we'll have to endure another 5 years of his impotent offensive tactics and meaningless tirades with the 4th 'official'. And I'd say it sure looks like he's lost the locker room when you watch our guys play.
Success earns job security, three trophies in the prior four years earns him leeway. He gets at least 1 season missing the playoffs before his seat gets hot, although it is getting warm now.
I'm less about wanting Vermes gone than I am wanting change in general to appear. It seems like tactically or emotionally there's only one solution in Pete's book, and while it can work plenty, it hurts to not feel like the team is ever learning from mistakes or flaws. I mean, the team has had the exact same major weakness (clog the middle of the park and wait for a break) for years and years now, and instead of finding ways to limit that danger, SKC has become even more susceptible to it. If Vermes can show the nous to overcome issues like this and readjust his team, keep him forever! Or, if like frankly most coaches anywhere he only has one or two tactics and has to hope those work, maybe somebody with a very different approach could help. I look at Sporting defending possession and transition, and I see one of the least visibly organized teams I've watched. Even bad teams in this league and others have a much more viable defensive shape when dropping deep. Sporting players just run around the place trying to pressure the ball. I don't have solutions, of course, but I'd like to see Pete (or barring that, the ownership) find some ideas to return SKC to a team that, even if it doesn't win a lot of trophies, at least strongly concerns the teams it's facing.
I was wondering when this thread would finally pop back up. Like Buzz said, PV has won too much for RH to toss him out for someone else right now. Those jerseys have three stars sitting on top of the team logo. Not many other teams in the league can say that. Now for the down side: yes, the team has gotten stagnant on the field and most of the time, are frustrating to watch. I know PV is stubborn, but he is not stupid. But when the team bombs out of the CCL, which they will, and possibly finish out of the playoffs, he will have to make some changes. RH can't market the team very well when there is little entertainment on the field. One way or another there will be changes. I just don't expect anything to change this season.
Another canary in the mine may be the eventual ending of the sellout streak which seems to be getting closer. It's not 100% because of the teams performance but a combination of that, some dicey weather, and crappy home schedule dates. This weeks game has the potential to not be a sellout, Sunday evening and a holiday weekend. Apparently the Cauldron has plenty of unsold tickets.
Actually only two stars over the badge, for 2000 and 2013. But everything else you said is spot on. To some extent, SKC fans are a bit spoiled due to the excellent run of success since 2012. But the telltale signs have always been there. This team's core has slowly gotten older and slower (and they were never fast to begin with.) They have always been vulnerable against the counter, but it was not much of a worry when Nielsen was in goal and Sinovic, Besler, Collin, and Myers were all in their prime. Since then, the defense is worse, and the offense - which has always been anemic (1-nil to the KC Wiz!) - is less dangerous than it has ever been. One year of missing the playoffs may be relatively acceptable. But if changes are not made soon, PV may become the next Sigi.
Well, I was referring to achievement since the rebranding and under PV's watch, 2 USOC Championships and 1 MLS Championship, but I humbly yield. I guess I could have looked at the jersey I wear.
There is another alternative. Vermes does not have to go; should not go. Once he took on the manager duties to go along with technical director, he built a side that was competitive for years, and arguably dominant for a good stretch. He has earned the right for a season out of the playoffs...although are you really in the playoffs if you don't have a game at home? Now, this has to come with the caveat that he begins rebuilding this team immediately. This season was a failure of planning. Grabbing a couple of old dudes to 'fill out' the roster because 'we are right there' was simply wrong. And Rubio is an expensive back up for this season and will almost certainly be back to his old club in December. If PV resists making real changes to roster or tactics, he needs to go. If he is truly a 'one trick' manager then he needs to prove that he can do that one trick again; quickly. If he simply struck gold with a group of players and lacks the ability to create new plans, then perhaps he can remain at TD and bring in a manager to run the team and tactics...perhaps the guy everyone seems to love at SPR. Vermes has a lot of Euro connections that have paid off and you don't necessarily just get that with whoever comes in next. The new car smell has worn off CMP. People are not buying tickets simply to try the new thing. If SCK begins a regular slide into the bottom of the standings then apathy will creep in. There also is no longer the luxury of the Royals and Chiefs bumbleflopping their way to irrelevance and opening the door for casual SKC attendance. This season is proof that something does need to change. Roster, tactics, leadership...some of it...all of it...something. And, finally, I base this off league play. The USOC is nice, but not meaningful compared to winning league games and playoff success. There is only one trophy that gets a star on your jersey.
You wouldn't be able to keep PV as coach or TD but not the other. He builds the club and finds the players that fit the system that he wants to play. We can wish for a 4-4-2 or some other formation all day long, but PV hasn't signed the players to fit anything but the 4-3-3 the way he runs it. And if he were TD only, a different coach would struggle to put together a lineup in any other fashion unless the TD were willing to sign different players. PV isn't giving up part of his job. All or nothing.
I had this thought watching Germany lose to France last night: Loew is no less of a manager than he was in Brazil. the system he put in was working, they were getting good looks and tons of dangerous possession. They just no longer can count on a Klose to put away more than his share of chances. So they looked not unlike SKC, a very good team who were playing very good soccer, but some quite decent players made a couple crucial mistakes and... well, my neighborhood was filled with a couple hundred thousand sad Germans. The problem with the firing the manager mentality, as I think you were noting here, is that the problem often turns out not to have been the manager. Problem losing is systemic: FO and managers not on the same page, so players don't fit the intentions, etc. But the facts on Vermes are pretty simple. Vermes had the chance to build his club, to play his way with his players, and it has been hella good. He appears to remain in sync with the FO. So, the problem right now is that we just aren't that good this season. A new manager doesn't change that fact. We aren't a rich club. If we'd been able to hold on to those who have left and shall not be named, we'd be much closer to fine and maybe just great. But that isn't who we are. We can't afford to keep everyone, and we can't afford to simply reload. We either have to go young and develop, or take risks and risks often fail. So, the problem isn't Vermes, its who we are. Instead of saying goodbye to Vermes in 2016, we need to be looking a fundamental rebuild of the squad, and hoping for success in 2018 or 2019.
i largely agree with most of what you said in your post, except some of this part. i'm not saying that we are a rich club, but we could afford to keep those players that left. we're apparently rich enough to be able to offer a player $4.5M/yr. those players who shall not be named left (or were told goodbye) for reasons other than "we couldn't afford them."
To whom did we offer $4.5m a year? $85k a week? That's just a tiny bit shy of Boatang money. We've never been in negotiations with anyone near that quality, have we? The Forbes estimates put the club profits at about $5m a year, so I can see it being possible, but did we really? And by rich enough I was talking huge club rich, ManU, Real Mad, BMunch, who also sometimes lose players but can always replace them, which isn't realistic for SKC.
Man, am I glad we didn't win that lottery. Feilhaber and Espinoza are worth far more than Bradley at their relative salaries.
Exactly, we could have kept some of them if they wanted to. But since Sporting can fill a stadium while putting mediocrity on the field they don't.
The hyperbole in the statement above is ludicrous. This supposed "mediocrity on the field" (and under Peter Vermes as TD and Coach) since 2011 has: Won US Open Cup in 2012 Won MLS Cup in 2013 Won US Open Cup in 2015 Made the playoffs every year since 2011, winning 4 series and losing 4 Finished second for Supporter's Shield twice Placed at least one, and often two, starting All Stars on every 11 man MLS All Star squad since 2011 Had at least one roster player appear in 70% of competitive USMNT games since 2013 - and 2 starters(!!) in 3 of 4 games in the 2014 World Cup. I can easily name 16 of the other 19 teams in MLS that would trade their last 5 year record with ours without hesitation. We are in the top 20% of franchises and yet a couple month bad streak makes us "mediocre"? Also, this statement implies that SKC owners only care about money and not the product on the field. That is patently absurd. Most owners have egos and want to win. They want to make their mark on the sport. They want things that are measured by more than "how much money can I make" - because they can already make money elsewhere. Our SKC owners have (1) already proven they want to and CAN win, (2) keep spending money to put Kansas City on the sports/soccer map, witness the groundbreaking of the US National Training Center (and soon to be new training home of SKC). Which ironically came 24 hrs prior to the claim above implying owners are satisfied with "mediocrity on the field". The wisely spent money is on long term investments like that development center that WILL pay off, and not on individual players that may get injured, not perform, etc., and after that player's contract is up you have nothing.... SKC ownership is doing the right thing. Peter Vermes is fine. Just as Besler isn't automatically a safe starter in PV's roster, PV isn't an automatic as SKC coach - but he has earned a LOT of leeway with that record above. And "if" PV's leeway starts to expire, one still has to answer the more relevant question of "do you have someone better to replace him with that will give to KC something close to what Peter is willing/has proven to?" I've been to just about every KC/SKC home game in their 21 seasons of existence. Things won't always go our team's way on the field - but I've seen what hasty/rash/emotional spur of the moment decisions bring (let's trade Preki!!). I've seen what a lack of investment (in infrastructure) in the team brings. We have had it GREAT now and over the last 5 years. It's good as a fan to always want more/the best/trophies every year. But realistically fans also have to buckle up and endure the inevitable rough patches that every franchise in any sport endures. And this rough patch isn't really that bad so far.