Youth Soccer, the chicken and the egg

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by waltlantz, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. waltlantz

    waltlantz Member

    Jul 6, 2010
    We all know the issues facing youth development in the US.

    One thing that seems to loom over all is financing. Pay to play sucks but who fronts the money for academies and youth leagues? They don't seem to have this problem even in the third world but I'm not sure (how is the structure in African countries?)

    Will the ever growing level of commercial sponsorship help fill the gaps for more underwritten clubs and competitions locally in America? Or will we have to wait until the day that the playing for the MLS/USMNT as appealing as the Big 4 in other sports, hence leading to a trickle down effect of more numerous and more accessible youth programs?

    Also one question for those in Europe or South America. I know that by late teenage years the best players are under the wings of established major pro clubs' youth teams. But under those levels, the small municipal and regional clubs.....are those free for kids to play in as well?
     
  2. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Well once upon a time club soccer in the US was an adult ethnic game. Resturants, Cathering halls, bars and other small business founded clubs. Like in Europe interesting right. Locker rooms was in basements of the businesses.

    They picked up the expenses. They only had one field.

    Then some not many formed youth teams after youth leagues were founded. Made up mostly of ethnic kids. They did not pay to play or they paid a token amount so the parents did not think it was charity. In those days people did not want to take charity.

    Only people paid was the adult team coach and some adult players.

    Did youth soccer make money no. We did not do it for money it was for love of the game.

    Third world is supported by the government not the parents. We have an adult Turkish club here in Brooklyn. They have a club house the coach told me the Turkish gov pays their rent surprisely to me.

    Maybe the US government will do that for us one day hahaha. They want to give away a lot of free stuff. Anyone remember when the normal work week was a 6 day week. When a decent raise was 5 cents an hour.
     
  3. UH60Blackhawk

    UH60Blackhawk Member

    Oct 5, 2013
    One thing that people often forget when discussing soccer in the US versus other countries is the competition from other sports.
    Just to give an example, one high school my kids attended offered the following sports:
    Football, lacrosse (boys and girls), field hockey, cheerleading ice hockey (boys and girls), skiing (Nordic and Alpine), soccer (boys and girls), softball, baseball, sailing, basketball (boys and girls), crew, bowling, golf (okay, not sure I consider the last two sports), track/field (winter and spring), cross country, wrestling (boys and girls), tennis, volleyball, gymnastics. Granted some were club (sailing and crew), but were well funded. Granted this school probably had more than the average public school, but it still demonstrates the great number of sport opportunities out there. I've seen very talented soccer players drawn off by other sport opportunities. I knew one girls who was regional ODP, junior national team in Alpine skiing and all-region in lacrosse. She finally decided to give up lacrosse.
     
  4. #4 feyenoordsoccerfan, May 8, 2016
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
    In the Netherlands there is no free play. To play soccer in a competition requires you to be member of an amateur club.
    For Spartaan20 (www.spartaan20.n) for instance the cost of membership arenot that high, while being a quality club with ties with Feyenoord:
    Contributie seizoen 2015 – 2016
    Niet spelend lid € 88,00
    Senior Veld € 185,00
    Senior Zaal € 185,00
    Senior Veld en Zaal € 282,00
    Jeugd A-B Selectie € 242,50
    Jeugd A-B niet-sel € 155,00
    Jeugd C Selectie € 223,50
    Jeugd C niet-sel € 136,00
    Jeugd D Selectie € 210,50
    Jeugd D niet-sel € 123,00
    Jeugd E-F € 115,00

    the team designation is going to change to the internationalmore common agegroup{
    Aanduiding---Oude aanduiding---------Geboortejaar---11:11----7:7(cat. B)---4:4
    JO20-----------eerstejaars senioren---------1997------------------X
    JO19/MO19---tweedejaars A-junioren------1998-----------------X------X
    JO18-----------eerstejaars A-junioren-------1999-----------------X------X
    JO17/MO17---tweedejaars B-junioren------2000----------------X------X
    JO16-----------eerstejaars B-junioren-------2001----------------X------X
    JO15/MO15---tweedejaars C-junioren------2002----------------X------X
    JO14-----------eerstejaars C-junioren-------2003---------------X------X
    JO13/MO13---tweedejaars D-pupillen------2004---------------X------X
    JO12-----------eerstejaars D-pupillen-------2005---------------X------X
    JO11-----------tweedejaars E-pupillen------2006-----------------------X
    JO10-----------eerstejaars E-pupillen-------2007-----------------------X
    JO9------------tweedejaars F-pupillen------2008-----------------------X
    JO8------------eerstejaars F-pupillen-------2009-----------------------X
    JO7------------minipupillen-----------------2010-----------------------X----------------X
    JO6------------minipupillen-----------------2011-----------------------X----------------X
     
    BostonRed repped this.
  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's considered relatively high there? It's a small fraction of the cost in the US, where even a very ordinary youth club can cost the player 10 times more.

    So who pays the expenses?
     
  6. What expenses?
     
  7. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Operating expenses. The cost of coaching, facilities, and such. Players pay 10 times those amounts at a typical youth club in the US, and those clubs aren't making huge profits.
     
  8. #8 feyenoordsoccerfan, May 8, 2016
    Last edited: May 8, 2016
    Oh, that. Well, the club is an entity on it's own, funded by the members, it is a "collective" possesion of what you call an association. So all expenses as of the coaches, the grounds, facilities etc. have to be paid by the members via their contribution payments. They do alot themselves like building of the club house and lockerrooms and the facilities. Sort of Amish thing. They also have beneficiars, maecenas, gathered in a group mostly called the "friends of xx". The club also tries to find money from sponsors. And a lot is done by volunteers. At the end of the year the balance has to be even, or better with a surplus to go into the treasure chest.
    Another example of a thriving club, where bDirk Kuijt originated is vv Katwijk:
    Contributie
    Hieronder vind u de contributie zoals die is bepaald voor het seizoen 2015/2016. Er heeft ten opzichte van het seizoen 2014/2015 geen verhoging plaatsgevonden.
    Leeftijdsgroep---Geboortejaar---------Contributie
    Minioren
    ----------2009 en later------------60 Euro*
    F-pupillen---------2008 en 2007-----------140 Euro*
    E-pupillen----------2006 en 2005----------150 Euro*
    D-pupillen----------2004 en 2003----------160 Euro*
    C-junioren----------2002 en 2001----------170 Euro*
    B-junioren----------2000 en 1999----------180 Euro*
    A-junioren----------1998 en 1997-----------190 Euro*
    Senioren------------1996 en eerder----------220 Eur
    (heren en dames)
    Niet-spelend lid
    ------------------------------------100 Euro

    The club isnot ment to make a profit, by the way.

    Edit, Dirk is from the city Katwijk, but played for Quick Boys
     
  9. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, sponsors. That might explain it. Those membership dues just seem extremely low to be able to pay the expenses. Most youth soccer clubs in the US are barely breaking even while charging much higher fees to players (usually measured in thousands of dollars per year).
     
  10. They also charge entrance fees for matches of the first team in the competitions (Katwijk can host 5000)!
    Check out the accomodation of Katwijk (use google translate for the text):
    Accommodatie
    [​IMG]

    Na een aantal rondzwervingen heeft v.v. Katwijk in 1985 haar thuis gevonden op Sportpark De Krom. Het complex is gelegen in het uiterste noordoosten van het dorp Katwijk.
    Velden
    Sportpark De Krom omvat zes velden. Inmiddels beschikt v.v. Katwijk over vier kunstgrasvelden, die voorzien zijn van veldverlichting. Het hoofdveld, waar het vlaggenschip zijn wedstrijden speelt, is vanaf seizoen 2014 / 2015 voorzien van kunstgras. De totale capaciteit van het hoofdveld is 5000 toeschouwers. Het hoofdveld beschikt overigens ook over veldverlichting.

    Gebouwen
    Sinds 2010 staat er een nieuw kleedkamergebouw op sportpark De Krom. In dit gebouw zijn onder anderen de kleedkamers, het secretariaat, de ontvangstruimte en de EHBO-ruimte te vinden.

    Het hoofdgebouw van de v.v. Katwijk is onlangs ook volledig gerenoveerd. In dit gebouw zijn onder anderen de volgende ruimtes te vinden: het (splinternieuwe) jeugdhonk, een multifunctionele ‘klusruimte', de kantine, de perskamer, de bestuurskamer en de geheel vernieuwde keuken.

    [​IMG]

    Multifunctioneel tribunegebouw
    In de zomer van 2014 is de oude hoofdtribune gesloopt om plaats te maken voor een multifunctioneel tribunegebouw (zie foto). In de kelder van dit gebouw is plaats ingeruimd voor de tafeltennisvereniging. Op de begane grond en de 1e etage zijn ontvangstruimtes, kleedkamers, ruimte ten behoeve van fysiotherapie en de businessclub gesitueerd. Het tribunegebouw is in het tweede deel van seizoen 2014 / 2015 in gebruik genomen.

    Fotoalbum nieuwbouw multifunctioneel tribunegebouw: http://www.vvkatwijk.nl/actueel/fotos/

    Adres
    Sportpark De Krom
    De Krom 57
    2221 KK Katwijk
    Telefoon: 071 4027085
     
  11. We donot have specific youth soccer clubs. Youth is part of the clubs.
    Spartaan '20 has about 800 plus members, vv Katwijk even over 1250.
     
  12. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have a big financing issue because the US has never had amateur sports clubs with that many members. We generally have large numbers of amateur clubs only in sports that don't have a fully professional league (the only sport with a significant amateur club scene is probably rugby) and even those clubs rarely have more than 100 members. As for selling tickets, half of the teams in in our top amateur soccer league have average attendances under 200. And obviously expenses are much higher in the US due to travel distances.

    So the difficult question is: how does youth development gets financed here?
     
  13. Well, a few years ago a reporter of a Scottish newspaper followed a Scottish club during its preps for the new season in the Netherlands. He was astonished by the facilities of the amateur clubs and wrote that's no wonder the Dutch are so powerful as a national team, given the facilities the kids have available to them.
    Your question about the financial part of it can be answered partly by a social commitment. Most amateur clubs founding in the Netherlands go back to the beginning of the last century. Some were founded on a religious base, like the Roman Catholic RKVV Spartaan'20, others by a few co workers looking for a way to spend time with the sport they liked. The amateur club I joined when I was very little, Coal, was founded in 1913 by a few white collar workers in the office of the SteenkolenHandels Vereniging, which traded coal (hence the name). But they all rooted deeply in the community and from the beginning tried to give kids the chance to play football on an affordable level. Amateur not only means non-professional, but also communal spirit here.
    That's not only with soccer. Amateur field hockey is a tremendous competitor for soccer and those clubs rival or some even beat the soccer clubs in facilities. No surprise also in field hockey we are a super power.
    When I look at the, as you now understand in my eyes, tremendous amount of money payed by parents for a kid to play soccer, I wonder if with the way the Dutch do things copied many more kids could and probably would play it while for each parent the bill would drop dramatically.
     
  14. I always wondered why I never saw amateur clubs from the States in our traditional Pentecost tournements. I now know that it is a stretch for most to enlist. The only time I saw a USA team participate was by the U17 team a few years ago.
    It is a pity though, as it would give the kids a thrilling experience, akin to what ODP Kentucky kids had with Feyenoord last month.

    To give an example of a tournement of under 13:
    http://www.cvvzwervers.nl/internationaal-d-toernooi (there are English parts in it)
    Doelstelling is om bekende clubs uit binnen- en buitenland naar het toernooi te halen. Dat is de afgelopen jaren goed gelukt: hieronder staan de logo's van alle clubs die al eerder aan het toernooi deelnamen.

    Deelnemende verenigingen Internationaal D-toernooi 1993-2015



    [​IMG]
    AZ Alkmaar

    [​IMG]
    Derby County FC

    [​IMG]
    KRC Genk

    [​IMG]
    FC Twente

    [​IMG]
    Feyenoord Rotterdam

    [​IMG]
    BK Frem Kopenhagen

    [​IMG]
    Sparta Rotterdam

    [​IMG]
    ADO Den Haag

    [​IMG]
    Ajax Capetown

    [​IMG]
    VFB Stuttgart
     
  15. [​IMG]
    Willem II

    [​IMG]
    RKC Waalwijk

    [​IMG]
    PSV Eindhoven

    [​IMG]
    Everton FC

    [​IMG]
    Rode Ster Belgrado

    [​IMG]
    Malmö FF

    [​IMG]
    West Bromwich Albion FC

    [​IMG]
    FC Utrecht

    [​IMG]
    FC Groningen

    [​IMG]
    KSK Beveren

    PEC Zwolle
     
  16. [​IMG]
    Excelsior Rotterdam

    [​IMG]
    ****** Zwervers

    [​IMG]
    Ajax Amsterdam

    [​IMG]
    Tottenham Hotspur FC

    [​IMG]
    NAC Breda

    [​IMG]
    Lyngby BK

    [​IMG]
    Manchester City FC

    [​IMG]
    Queens Park Rangers FC

    [​IMG]
    NEC Nijmegen

    [​IMG]
    PAOK Saloniki
     
  17. Alemannia Aachen

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Odense BK

    [​IMG]
    Bayer Leverkusen

    [​IMG]
    Borussia Dortmund

    [​IMG]
    RSC Anderlecht

    [​IMG]
    KSC Lokeren

    [​IMG]
    Peterborough United FC

    [​IMG]
    FC Schalke 04

    [​IMG]
    Brøndby IF
     
  18. [​IMG]
    Borussia Mönchengladbach

    [​IMG]
    VFL Bochum

    [​IMG]
    SC Heerenveen

    [​IMG]
    Sint-Truiden VV

    [​IMG]
    KV Mechelen

    [​IMG]
    Austria Wien

    [​IMG]
    FC Zbrojovka Brno

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Could have posted the English version directly, I now notice:

    http://www.cvvzwervers.nl/algemene-info-2
    For a teaser:

    U-13 Tournament
    Since 1993!!

    Since 1993 the football club ****** Zwervers organized the international U-13 tournament (age up to 13 years). This tournament takes place annually during the White Sunday weekend, Sunday and Monday (In German: Pfingstsonntag und Pfingstmontag). The location is the beautiful sports park from ****** Zwervers in Capelle aan den IJssel. Capelle aan den IJssel is situated 10 kilometers from the center of the great city of Rotterdam .

    With this football event, ****** Zwervers shows all of their organizational capabilities. A large team of volunteers, sponsors and "friends of the tournament" are the driving forces behind this unique event.

    Since 2006 the line-up of the tournament consist of 12 teams (previously 10 teams), including the U-13 team from ****** Zwervers. The winners of the previous editions are listed below:

    1993: VFL Bochum, 1994: Sparta Rotterdam, 1995: Feyenoord Rotterdam, 1996: Sparta Rotterdam, 1997: KSK Beveren, 1998: Nationaal team Tjechië, 1999: VFL Bochum, 2000: PSV Eindhoven, 2001: PSV Eindhoven, 2002: Sparta Rotterdam, 2003: Feyenoord Rotterdam, 2004: Borussia Dortmund, 2005: RKC Waalwijk, 2006: Borussia Dortmund, 2007: Willem II, 2008 PSV Eindhoven, 2009: Sparta Rotterdam, 2010: Everton, 2011: Everton, 2012: Boyer 04 Leverkusen, 2013 WillemII/RKC combination, 2014: Bayer 04 Leverkusen, 2015: Feyenoord Rotterdam.

    The objective is to get famous clubs from home and abroad to the tournament. The organizing team, currently directed by Piet de Wit, succeeded in that mission so far. Below the list of all clubs that participated in the tournament.

    Participating teams U-13 Tournament 1993-2015
     
  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Soccer America's response to the main points raised in that article:

    http://www.socceramerica.com/article/69110/does-american-soccer-really-only-work-for-white-ki.html

    And much of the cost problem isn’t the fault of the soccer community, but of U.S. society. Our fields are not free. I have been interviewed by foreign journalists on American pay-to-play youth soccer and gave an example of how a club had to spend $80,000 to make a public park’s grass playable, and how another had to raise $1 million for an artificial turf field. They were astounded that parents in the USA had to pay for the park where their kids play soccer.

    In the USA, pretty much all our children’s activities turn into big business. In March, the Boston Globe reported that private tutoring and test preparation is a $12 billion industry. Last Sunday’s New York Times had an article headlined, “The Families That Can’t Afford Summer,” about how expensive summer camps and childcare has become.

    We don’t have in American youth soccer a magic wand that could solve the pay-to-pay problem. And Carpenter’s extensive reporting -- he interviews such grassroots heroes Nick Lusson and Julio Borge, U.S. Soccer President Sunil Gulati, U.S. Soccer Foundation CEO Ed Foster-Simeon -- helps keep the light shining on an extremely important issue.

    But the headline is not an accurate description of American youth soccer today. And Carpenter’s finale -- “Is anybody listening? Does anybody care?” -- will puzzle a large part of the U.S. soccer community that has been working very hard for a long time to improve U.S. youth soccer.
     
    Cubanlix63 repped this.
  21. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders

    Right now the MLS is the largest funder of soccer developement in the country (multiple times what USSF pays) through their Academies and this is only accelerating.

    More MLS clubs throwing more money at their academies is the best hope near term for loosening the grip of pay-to-play.
     
  23. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Matthew Johnson

    Sep 6, 2013
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    How do we (as people with no financial or personal interest, only want improved youth development) want this to end up?
     

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