PBP: Xavi Vs Pirlo

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by the one and only, Jul 13, 2012.

?

So who's better???

  1. Xavi

    19 vote(s)
    34.5%
  2. Pirlo

    32 vote(s)
    58.2%
  3. Both overrated

    1 vote(s)
    1.8%
  4. Iniesta will always steal the spotlight from them

    3 vote(s)
    5.5%
  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We can agree on this @carlito86 . I rate Iniesta higher than Xavi, yet Zidane a cut above either one.
     
  2. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Pirlo never was as consistent nor as dominant as prime Xavi. Pirlo doesn't have two CL Finals like Xavi (where Xavi completely dominated the opposition). In the 7-0 humiliation, Messi was injured, Villa was post-leg-break (he never was the same again), Iniesta was out of form that entire season, etc. The fact still is, at the end of the day, that Xavi was more dominant and consistent than Pirlo ever was. Pirlo was overshadowed by Kaka a great deal. Now imagine how Pirlo would look with BOTH Messi and Iniesta overshadowing him?

    In addition to all the obvious facts that I've already mentioned: Pirlo never won a single Euro; Xavi has two of them, and one of them as the player of the tournament.

    In any case, which two seasons before the 2007-08 season, would you say were Andrea Pirlo's best seasons with AC Milan? Do you remember a few specific games? I think Pirlo (the Milan version; not the overrated Juve version) is an underrated player, and I have access to an Italian collector who probably literally has all of Pirlo's games on dvd. I'll probably make a video of Pirlo, but I've not yet decided on which 2 seasons to focus on. Your opinion on them questions I asked, would be appreciated.

    NOTE

    Do you still expect me not to notice that you are in fact @SayWhatIWant under a different name? Your schtick overstayed its welcome; it's become pretty clear that you have several names. Your other alias @carlito86 also is pretty obvious by now. But whatever.
     
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You've got issues first I'm James now this guy?
    Why don't you just stop being an excuse machine and start answering my points?
    Iniesta has 7 goals in his last 119 games do you have another excuse to up your sleave to explain this kind of form?
     
  4. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    There is a legitimate debate to be had regarding Xavi and Pirlo. That said, you lose credibility when you question Pirlo's consistency or dominance. I followed Pirlo very closely given that he played for both a hated adversary (Milan) and my club (Juve). I have likewise followed Barca a great deal as I have been a keen admirer of their play, especially when Rijkaard took over. If you are going to argue that Pirlo wasn't as consistent, you weren't paying attention. Pirlo has always performed brilliantly since the move to Milan. If you think he was "overshadowed" by Kaka, again, you weren't paying attention. Pirlo performed the very important regista function in Ancelotti's system. He was integral to keeping possession such that Kaka would have liberty to roam behind the strikers. It's unsurprising that Pirlo has basically won every trophy there is and was a critical member of every winning squad.

    To take it one step further, Pirlo did one thing that Xavi did not do. He completely transformed a club. Xavi always had the luxury of playing for one of the two best clubs in his country. When Pirlo made the move to Juve, they were still in shambles. Pirlo was the catalyst to the beginning of the renaissance of the club such that they have now retaken their place as one of the best clubs on the planet.
     
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  5. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #105 leadleader, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    I disagree. I was paying attention -- Pirlo was never a very consistent performer, and his ratings (from Italy no less) bear that out. I was paying attention, and I'm sorry, but disagreeing with you doesn't exactly mean that I wasn't paying attention. Pirlo was integral indeed (imo underrated), but Kaka in fact did overshadowed him quite badly, and it's quite easy to imagine how a considerably better player like Messi (plus Iniesta) would've overshadowed slow Pirlo even more so.

    As for Pirlo being the "catalyst of the renaissance of Juve," did you actually watched Pirlo's performances at Champions League level? Juve was eliminated early in 2012-13 and 2013-14, and Pirlo not performing was a good part of the reason as to why that happened.

    Pirlo was a free transfer to Juventus; if you don't know why he was "a free transfer" you weren't paying attention. Great in 2011-12, but after Euro'12 he never was the same player again; he was just too slow and slow for the majority of the 2012-13 season, which continued in 2013-14, etc. In a nutshell: Pirlo was a great midfielder but you're clearly revising/hyping him into a beast that he never was.
     
  6. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I asked you for your opinion and I also stated that I would appreciate your opinion on the question "Which were Pirlo's best two seasons at AC Milan?"

    Your response was essentially just another insult in which you failed to adequately answer any of my counter arguments, and in which you also failed to offer the insight that I had asked for in "appreciative" terms. I'm done wasting my time with you.
     
  7. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Wierdo when did you ask me about anything pirlo?
    you sent a post to a random poster claiming I was impersonating him!!
    I happened to see this post and that's why I called you out in it.
    Get your facts right and get a life
    and stop wriggling your way out of questions?
    You call me saying iniesta has 7 goals in his last 199 games an insult?
    Since when did a fact become an insult
    http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/andres-iniesta/detaillierteleistungsdaten/spieler/7600
     
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  8. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Read the bold letters. Obviously, at this point I have ZERO interest in any information that you might dignify yourself with sharing.
     
  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You senile old man you sent that post to a poster called @LegendarySunrise does that sound like Carlito even remotely?
    for the 2001th time answer the points I asked you about or stop wasting my time with your conspiracy theories
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  10. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I offer my sincere "don't really care anyways" apologies for that mate. You guys sound IDENTICAL!!

    Anyways, I obviously don't have the time nor inclination to "debate" anything with a person like you. You don't understand how an "argument" actually works. Your arguments pretty much consist of "I disagree with you, and I'm always right." I have already debunked/refuted all of your bullshit arguments; and you have failed to argue against any of my points. That's basically what, in reality, actually happened. And honestly? I have better things to do with my time, than endlessly repeat the same old points that you repeatedly proved incapable of understanding.

    That being said, if you would care to answers the questions about Pirlo (the questions that I asked to that other poster who sounds EXACTLY like you!!), that would be appreciated.
     
  11. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Ultimately, Pirlo has to be rated ahead of the more limited Xavi :thumbsup:
     
  12. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I have respect for Pirlo, but Xavi is quite clearly better.

    Xavi basically played like Pirlo vs. England 2012 pretty much every match. Obviously most matches aren't a major tournament match against England, so perhaps it's less impressive, but you get what I mean. Xavi basically was impossible to dispossess and virtually entirely mistake-free every match, while also providing great chances for teammates.
     
  13. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
  14. lessthanjake

    lessthanjake Member+

    May 9, 2015
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
  15. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #115 leadleader, Feb 11, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
    Ah, but didn't you know? Rui Costa was better than Iniesta, and Pirlo was better than Xavi. And if you disagree with that, you weren't paying much attention were you?
     
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  16. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    1) Xavi wasn't like Pirlo v England every match. Pirlo in that match had a lot of creative freedom and played quite a number of long balls that the Barca/Spain systems wouldn't allow. I remember Barca fans (at barcaforum) complaining about the 'sideways passes' and regression of killer balls as early as 12-13 season.
    2) Too much hyperbole with the mistake free / impossible to dispossess etc. He had the 100% match vs PSG but since then his possession numbers have been reproduced by Xabi Alonso, Thiago, Verratti, Jorginho off the top of my head.

    I think Xavi goes down as the greater player but there's a discussion to be had about who was the better player, if that makes sense.
    Xavi WC 10 vs Pirlo WC 06
    Xavi Euro 08 vs Pirlo Euro 12

    If I had to argue in Xavi's favour I'd go with @leadleader , he was more consistent, possibly far more consistent. Pirlo also had lower lows IMO.
     
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  17. monere

    monere Guest

    xavi only became famous and good in guaridola's system (tiki-taka). Until then nobody knew who xavi was. As for Pirlo... the guy has been world class playmaker since he's been playing for Brescia. Also, he's one of my favorite all-time football players, so... it wasn't hard for me to take this poll :)
     
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  18. monere

    monere Guest

    no, it's not. Pirlo was, is and will always be better, xavi shouldn't even be mentioned in these polls. Until guardiola made of xavi the ball controller that he is, nobody ever heard of xavi before (except for barca's fans obviously).
     
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  19. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #119 leadleader, Feb 11, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
    Except that both the FIFA World Player of the Year metric, and the Ballon d'or metric, both rated Xavi more highly than Pirlo (and Xavi is a more boring player than Pirlo, so him being more rated than a more marketable player like Pirlo imo says a great deal).

    Furthermore, a big portion of the posters who agree that Pirlo was so much better than Xavi, all seem to believe in the irrational claim that "Guardiola created Xavi..." An argument as irrational as it is recycled by simple-minded fans alike. And so completely ignoring how skillful some posters are or aren't at the language; I do think that the arguments that have been put forth by the pro-Xavi side of the debate in this thread, are by some distance smarter arguments than the simplistic revisionism that most of the pro-Pirlo posters have used to bash Xavi with. I think that says quite a lot in and of itself.
     
  20. monere

    monere Guest

    TL;DR

    I don't give a rat's ass what FIFA and other so-called pro say. If I say Pirlo is better than xavi then he is. Case closed!
     
  21. myohmy

    myohmy Member

    Jan 10, 2015
    Pirlo is 2 levels below Xavi. He belongs in the Xabi Alonso category.
     
  22. myohmy

    myohmy Member

    Jan 10, 2015
    Posts like this also sum up the cluelessness of people. Xavi wasn't benched. Xavi had an ACL injury. For that reason he also played half-fit in the 2006 WC (to the other clueless poster whose name I forgot who made the "Zidane owned Xavi" post).
     
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  23. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #123 leadleader, Feb 11, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
    Which was exactly my point. We agree on how marred by incompetence or disinterest your argument or opinion is. You've just reinforced my point without having to summon the energy to write one of them badly written sentences you call "arguments." I appreciate that!!
     
  24. myohmy

    myohmy Member

    Jan 10, 2015
    You won't find many Barca fans who agree with this. Maybe 10 % think Iniesta is better because of his dribbling. Xavi clearly the superior player though and by a distance. Also clearly superior to Zidane. With Iniesta it's debateable, with Xavi it's obvious.
     
  25. monere

    monere Guest

    Don't get fired up dude. I'm in trolling mood :)

    Both players are excellent, I just happen to like Pirlo more than xavi for personal tastes :)
     

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