Sampaoli: Noticias, comentarios, opiniónes, etc (R)

Discussion in 'Chile: Selecciones Nacionales' started by MetroChile, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Because Sampaoli, like Pep, understands that the easiest way to defend is having the ball. He crowded the midfield and dominated possession against practically every team we faced. He has elements of Bielsa in terms of team pressing but that's it, Sampaoli hardly uses the 3-3-1-3 or 4-3-3. He has more in common with 3-5-2 managers like Van Gaal and many other Italians in Serie A.
     
  2. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    I never saw any of Riera's teams and a 3rd place at a World Cup is nothing to dismiss, however, from the managers I've seen. Sampaoli has been the best. Both at club and national level. He got my club playing some of the best football I've seen and gave Chile an extra bit of solidity that was lacking under previous managers. I would have taken a Copa America instead of another 3rd place at Brazil 2014. Getting our first cup after 99 years is... well I don't need to tell you guys.
     
  3. toepunt

    toepunt Member

    Aug 24, 2003
    North America
    I remember our U17 women Roja team won Gold a few years back in an international tournament.
     
  4. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    In my case, I did watch Riera perform (not in his days in charge of the NT though), and he was more of a coach to his players than whatever Sampaoli ever was. No doubt about it. He wasn't as succesful, but that's because the pool of players we had in his days, was light years behind the top teams of the world.

    The only reason why Chile achieved that 3rd place, back at the 1962 WC, was because we had the great advantage to play at home and the players of our team had very big balls to confront the teams we had to play against without any fear, despite the diference on the level of the players each team had.
    1962's third place, was achieved mostly to great courage of our players, than their football, and that's the main importance about it. Through that championship, Chile lost 2 matches : against almost the same West Germany which was going to play the next WC final match, at group phase; and against the best Brazil of all times, which after beating us at the semi's, went along to win their second WC (without even needing their best player, who got injured at the onset of the tournament, which was Pelé). For many journalists in those days, it was very hard to understand why FIFA gave us the hosting rights, as we were almost no ones in football of those days, reasons why at group phase no one worried about our chances and we got probably the most difficult group any host has had to deal with, in history, facing 3 of the best european teams of those days, which were Germany, Italy and Switzerland, so most people believed that our history would finish very fast at group phase. But this is another story (off topic that is).

    At club level (as coach), his long trajectory, included among others, Os Belenenses, Benfica (with whom he reached the finals of the european championship), Ssporting Lisboa and Oporto in Portugal; Español and la Coruña in Spain; Marseille in France; Nacional of Uruguay; Boca Jrs. of Argentina; Monterrey in Mexico; and in Chile he trained, U. Católica, U.Chile, Palestino and Everton. Won 5 titles in his career, 3 in Chile (with 3 diferent teams) and 2 in Portugal.
    He was considered the mentor, of many of the most important coaches Chile has had, and also probably the main reason which made Chile progress to the level where we currently are, at present times, as it was him who really introduced and taught what modern football was, in Chile, when he started working with Luis Alamos on his arrival with our NT, whom afterwards took his teachings to the next level with the "blue ballet" and Colo-Colo '73.

    Oh, and also he was one of the first coaches in the world who used the famously known "tiki-taka" (short passes at very intense pace), which was took to perfection many years after by the spanish team which won the 2010 WC, and also the reason why in Chile we always have given so much importance to possession. At those early days, not many players anywhere in the world, were capable of performing it. He loved playing possession of the ball, and also the reason why in Chile we always have given so much importance to possession, but this was also the reason why he wasn't so succesful, as in those days, playing full possession was very dificult to achieve.
    He was the creator of the famous phrase : "Si la tenemos nosotros, no la tienen ellos".

    In many ways, he could also be considered as mentor of both Bielsa and Sampaoli, as well (something no argentine will admit, though)
    So, gotto give more respect for the man.
    :cool:
     
  5. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    I was under the impression that the the Scottish were the first to put emphasis on possession, so much so in fact, that in Uruguay and Argentina, playing with the ball on the ground with short passing was known as "la escocesa". I'm talking way back in the days when football was starting in S.America.

    http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/scotland-s-amazing-role-in-football-s-success-1-466611

    http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2012/08/11/scottish-football-ever-done-us/
     
  6. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Well, I for one, don't buy the hype of U17 tournaments (or younger)... a lot of those kids don't even continue their careers as football players. It's mostly about who develops first physically speaking, which is why Africans currently dominate the men's competitions at youth level.

    At U20 you can see a bit more of who is who. Players are more mature physically and mentally and you have an even tougher playing field.
     
  7. toepunt

    toepunt Member

    Aug 24, 2003
    North America
    That is a put down of young players if I ever read one!
     
  8. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #308 Rickdog, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    I didn't say that Riera invented it.
    What I said is that he was one of the first coaches who used it in the world, as a regular tactic to achieve posession .

    Probably the first team that really used it, was the magical magyar (Hungary) team of the early 50's (also described on the second article you posted, btw), as they had the skills to carry it out propperly, whom afterwards took it to Spain, where many of them continued their careers and many also adopted the Spain NT, as their own.
    Fernando Riera, brought it from there, from his days as player when he learned about it, as he was one of the first chileans to play in Europe, specifically at France, where afterwards, he got his football coach title (mid 50's), and the reason why he started his coaching career in Europe and also the reason why our Federation thought that he would be a better coach than Luis Alamos whom was appointed to the job before his arrival, and gave him the job as coach of the NT for the 1962 WC, while Alamos was kept as his assistant. It was his arrival that had us get the nickname of being "the europeans of South America", as we started playing in an approach more bonded to how europeans played, than those which were more likely seen in South American teams.

    Now those articles you posted, talks more about the use of passing the ball between players which requires lots of team work, instead of dribbling the ball in which case it is more about an individual work, which was how football was first played at the beginings. It was an important keystone in football, no doubt, but tiki taka is more about a sort of extreme perfectionism of the passing game, which requires lots of skills, accuracy, vission and concentration, something very hard to achieve by most players.
     
  9. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    #309 posteador, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
    I don't think it's controversial what I said. The young players would probably agree with me that they are far from the finished product and their achievements have to be seen in that context. Winning a World Cup in any popular sport, never mind football, is pretty impressive, but even they would agree that winning an adult World Cup is even more so, considering we are talking about beating the best humans in the world at the peak of their physical and mental abilities. I think in Chile and South America they give it more attention than in Europe for example. Even U20 football is not focused as much in Europe as it is in S.America.
     
  10. posteador

    posteador Member+

    Dec 29, 2006
    Lincoln, UK
    Well I only posted those links for whoever was interested, I am already familiar with Scottish football and the Magic Magyars. Passing football has been around forever, like Pep said in a conference in Brazil, "I like to see my teams play the way my dad told me Brazilians used to play", which sorta hurt Brazilian pride because it's true, the Brazil of today has nothing to do with what they used to do. Perhaps the only two key differences between Pep's tiki-taka and any passing football before it is the speed in which the triangulations are achieved today and the concentration and skill needed for it which you already mentioned, but I would also add the team pressing (Dutch influence) and the positional play and recovery work. Those two combined in a way I have never seen with Pep's Barça, partly thanks to Pep, but also thank to the quality of the players available. Those two came together at the right time for this magic to happen.
     
    Rickdog repped this.
  11. toepunt

    toepunt Member

    Aug 24, 2003
    North America
    Que se vaya de una vez el pelao sinverguenza y se lleve a su cafiche de Becacheche.
     
  12. Ohiginiano

    Ohiginiano Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    El Teniente Stadium
    Club:
    O Higgins Rancagua
    Deberiamos cerrar la trenza de este huevon. No vale la pena seguir hablando de el. Pelao traidor, lo que te interesaba era la plata, y no ser campeon del mundo, como dijo Bonvallet.
     
    toepunt repped this.
  13. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Yo prefiero igual mantener abierta esta trenza, de lo contrario cada vez que hablemos pestes de este wevón lo haremos en otras trenzas, ensuciándolas también.

    O sea, esta trenza se mantendrá como si fuera el "water" o servicio higiénico de nuestra selección, donde podemos hablar sobre mierda sin contemplación.:p
     
    toepunt repped this.
  14. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    toepunt repped this.

Share This Page