Expansion draft speculation

Discussion in 'Orlando Pride' started by SiberianThunderT, Sep 16, 2015.

  1. mamalia

    mamalia Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Cincinnati OH US
    Ezurike made roster for Pan Am games this summer. Quon did not. Quon did not make Cyprus Cup roster in 2015 either. So not wanting to beat a dead horse, there just seems to be little evidence that Canada would spend money on her as an allocated player in 2016.
     
  2. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    I'm not sure what trading for an outside back has to do with this conversation.

    Orlando isn't going to draft a 33 year old that isn't named Solo. Period.
     
  3. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    The fact that they paid her as an allocated player in 2015 does not qualify as evidence?
     
  4. mamalia

    mamalia Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Cincinnati OH US
    Well they did not roster her for any competitions in 2015.... so if I was writing the checks I would say that does not look like a track record for continued financial underwriting.... but I have no horse in this race so no biggie to me either way - just saying that if her attractiveness to Orlando is FREEBIE, maybe not the case.
     
  5. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    I can agree with that. I wonder if the teams know who will be allocated next year.
     
  6. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Guess I misunderstood what you were saying. But it has to do with the conversation I was having as that's the position that Wilkinson plays and my suggestion was to trade for a better one than Quon down the line when Wilkinson retires. There are better outside backs than Quon and it seems silly to limit themselves to her and a worse outside mid than Leon when they can do better, but whatever if they want to be so shortsighted, that's their prerogative.
     
  7. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Drafting someone on the verge of retirement is not shortsighted?

    I'm not insisting it be Quon. I am insisting it isn't going to be someone at the very end of their career like Wilkinson. You don't start a franchise by getting someone you will need to immediately replace, and has zero trade value. Plenty of other younger players available to fill that slot that will have more value than Wilkinson. And by more value, I mean even a small amount of value is more value than a retired player.
     
  8. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Alright.... I'm not gonna try to complete a full draft list, since that would need balancing positions and international slots in a way I've never trained myself to do. But just some thoughts:

    Orlando currently has two forwards and a midfielder. If they had a good opportunity, I could see them trying for a third striker, (and I actually have a good guess, see below,) but otherwise will probably focus on the other three positions.

    We know Portland is going to get Orlando's first pick. The expected, so-far-reported moves would be Orlando picking Kling from SEA and Harris from DC as their two US allocations, saving SEA and DC from losing anyone else, then dealing Kling to Portland. For once in my life, though, I'll put on the tin foil hat and entertain the possibility of Orlando picking Krieger from DC instead. Krieger goes to Portland as has been rumored on Twitter, and that leaves Kop open to be taken from SEA (and there are two other nice keepers available from WNY) so that Orlando could later trade for Harris, since I'm sure Harris just wants to play in Orlando and doesn't care exactly what transactions get her there.

    Now, as for that striker issue.... I know we're already hearing rumors about Sanderson from POR, but big in my mind is Heyman from WNY. Aussie, so TS is probably fairly familiar; done fairly well for the Aussie NT; proven great in the Aussie W-League; maybe didn't do so well in WNY, but that might just be how bad the team was this year. Of course, this would spend one of Orlando's international slots (two if the Sanderson rumors are true).... but I consider it a high possibility.

    As for other positions.... I'm not entirely sure. Whether they get Harris or Kop for GK, I expect one of WNY's two keepers gets picked to be Harris' eventual backup. For defenders, I think the pickings aren't entirely great, but who do stick out to me are Erceg/Quon/Hemmings from Chicago, Hayes/Goodson from Sky Blue, and Sierra from Boston. For M, I don't really know... If it's Krieger instead of Kling, I could see SEA losing Mattias or Solaun. CHI could offer Leon if Orlando wants a more offensive M.

    The one thing I'm really wondering is if Orlando tries to build up its international presence... OCSC has already done so, but the Pride would to wheel and deal some spots back if they wanted to pick up some stray Brazilians or something to have after the Olympics.
     
  9. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Not in comparison to not drafting someone just because of their age and having to take 2 less quality players.

    No, you start a franchise by fielding the most competitive team you can so you don't suck and loose all the pre-expansion buzz you had like the Dash did.

    Not gonna hold my breath here since you never came up with an answer for who you would replace Leon with, but who exactly? There really aren't that many young quality players available, even in other positions that would be able to be traded to get a decent outside back.
     
  10. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tom Sermanni has his own unique perspective on the game and on players of the game,(which contributed greatly to getting fired from USWNT); so enjoy your speculations, but don't think for a minute that what he does will be anything like your thoughts.

    ...And, Orlando, keep your hands off Heyman!
     
  11. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tom Sermanni has his own unique perspective on the game and on players of the game (which contributed greatly to getting fired from USWNT); so enjoy your speculations, but don't think for a minute that what he does will be anything like your thoughts.

    ...And, Orlando, keep your hands off Heyman!
     
    BlueCrimson repped this.
  12. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    A retired player is not a quality player. We've seen the same person build the Orlando City Lions that are building the Pride. OCSC had the youngest starting lineup in the MLS by three years. Let that sink in. You build a team by getting young players and letting them grow, not getting players past their prime that are fading and will soon need to be replaced. You can imagine all you want, but I would be willing to wager right now that Orlando takes a couple of young players that have far less experience than even Quon.

    Did I mention that OCSC had the youngest starting lineup in the MLS by three years? Wilkinson won't be picked by Orlando, no matter how much you would like that to happen.
     
  13. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Yes, I created my list of player the Pride might draft. But it is a very interesting excercise to look at the MLS expansion draft. I read several analysis of the expansion draft and who Orlando and New York might take. Almost every player NY took was on a draft preview list somewhere. Almost no one Orlando took was on a draft preview list, and the couple they took that were on a list got traded right after the draft in certain a pre-arranged trade.

    So I agree about the speculations. Paul McDonough is a huge player in the US college scene and in amateur soccer in general. Then you have Sermanni that knows the US and Canadian player pools better than almost anyone. That would include not just players on the team but players kept on the radar for future inclusion on the National Teams. I fully expect that there will be players picked that sat on the NWSL bench last year. Other players will be picked to be packaged in a trade. This will not be your "typical" NWSL expansion draft, if there is such a thing.
     
  14. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Interesting analysis and I like the direction you are going. Personally, I don't see Kreiger getting picked. That is Kling all the way, too much smoke not to be a fire.

    I could see the team taking another striker, and also a backup GK. But at the same time there is a limited player pool to work with. In the case of the MLS team, Orlando could and did sign players from all over the world to fill starting spots. That isn't really the case here in the NWSL. I'm sure the team will plan to pluck a player or two from the draft's second round. But you can't go to El Salvador or England's second division and find a starting DM. So the team has to come out of the expansion draft with players that will start or at least compete to start.

    The middle ground is drafting someone like Heyward and flipping her to another team for two younger players. I could see that happening with two or three expansion draft picks. That would be a way to build some depth with youth. Actually, I'm interested to see if that is what plays out with Sanderson. It's gonna be fun!
     
  15. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    #115 holden, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
    Of course not. I don't expect her to retire. The idea is she plays this season. Obviously they should do their due diligence and make sure she will play. But I haven't heard anything from anyone other than you that she is immediately planning on retiring. I mean, she's the same age as Carli Lloyd! That's not exactly past their expiration date. She could easily play another 5 years if she stays healthy and wants to. But that's not even the primary concern. You're just so concerned with one person's age that you're losing sight of what would build a better team. If you want to loose now, then by all means go ahead, it's no skin off my back.

    Again, who exactly? You have no answer for this, because there is no one else. Now if they want to go the international route to find an outside back, that's certainly a possibility (though then if they also take Sanderson they will have no more available slots). But not from the expansion draft.

    I don't like it to happen. I just think it's the least worst option of what is available. What I would like to happen is for them to pick Dydasco from Washington rather than Harris. That is a young quality outside back that would be solid in the position for a good long time. But we all know that they are going to pick Harris.

    And you can compare to your MLS team all you want, but this isn't the MLS. They can and certainly will do what they want and not what I think is best (because I don't work for them, after all so why should they listen to me). But that doesn't mean that what I think is best is not best. It just means they and I have a different opinion.
     
  16. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    It isn't going to happen.
     
  17. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Hey, finally you're getting what I'm saying! Too bad you still can't see it. :rolleyes:
     
  18. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Retired players rarely start.

    And before you suggest it, Orlando won't be drafting Abby Wambach or Mia Hamm either. :)
     
  19. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    #119 holden, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
    Your trolling level is getting higher and higher. Congrats!

    Let me know when you want to stop trolling and actually offer answers to the questions I have posed that up to now all you have done is ignore. Till then, I'll just treat you the same way you've treated my questions.
     
  20. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Your questions are irrelevant, because your assumptions are entirely incorrect. Start with the assumption that you want the best team three years from now and start your list over again. Then we maybe can have a conversation. Otherwise we are just having a circular argument because you incorrectly assume that Orlando will take a old player so they can win an extra game or two this year. Not gonna happen. Of that I am sure.
     
  21. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    So I'm looking at the results of the Houston expansion draft. It appears to me that Houston did not trade any of their picks immediately after the draft. Is this true?

    The reason that I ask is because I imagine the Orlando brain trust is doing two things this week aside from trying to gauge which players may decide to up and retire and under what conditions. First, they are figuring out which players they want from the unprotected list. Second, they are calling every other team and asking them if there is someone on the unprotected list that they want, and what they would be willing to pay to acquire that player.
     
  22. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not immediately after the draft, but Houston did select Danesha Adams and then sent her to Washington for Steph Ochs, who they really wanted but was protected.
     
  23. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Orlando were going to take a keeper from WNY, Jones would be the more likely option over D'Angelo for several reasons:

    -Unless D'Angelo gets allocated by Canada, she would cost an international spot and Jones wouldn't.

    -D'Angelo is from Ontario, which is only an hour away from Buffalo, so she might be less willing to go someplace further away. Jones might be more willing to move.

    -If Canada were to qualify for the Olympics, there's a real possibility of D'Angelo being selected as either an alternate or possibly making the squad as McLeod's backup. Either way, she'd be gone with the Canadian team. With Harris firmly established as Solo's backup, if the US qualifies, she's also a definite for Rio. It's not a good idea to have both your starter and your backup missing a chunk of the season.
     
    CoachJon repped this.
  24. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Unfortunately, as I already said, I can't start with that assumption. Orlando seems hell bent on picking Harris which eliminates the best team 3 years from now from possibility. So what's the point in discussing a hypothetical? I am trying to discuss what's best in actuality.

    And even if you think my assumptions are correct, you still have not named a player replace Wilkinson or a player to replace Leon (in the case of picking Quon). If you had, then there would have been no need for this inane focus on one player's age that you seem to have. That's right, you are the one focusing on Wilkinson. Not me. I am open for alternate suggestions... just waiting to hear them.
     
  25. BigData

    BigData Member+

    Feb 2, 2014
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    *Sigh*

    By your own admission, you are the expert evaluator of talent here, not me. I am giving you the parameters by which Orlando will pick the team. Should be a very easy job for you to identify who the picks will be, knowing the players as well as you do.

    But I will go this direction. If Orlando picks Wilkinson and does not trade her before the start of the season, I will send $20 to the PayPal account of your choice.
     

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