The seedings at the Euro 2016 finals will be based on UEFA's national team coefficients. Good results in the remaining games would improve a team's coefficient and could potentially help them get into a better pot in the final draw.
The Turks will play two sides that are already qualified though. So they might treat the games as glorified friendlies.
So after knowing all this, I can't believe in Iceland anymore. Will they go to play for a win and fight in Turkey, for the last game, in front of the hot turkish public ? Remember what happened during Turkey vs Switzerland : We have to count on Czech Republic, otherwise bye bye.
Man, that's a long reply. I would have started with Tete. Last game too. Thing is that what you're saying can be applied to many of our players.
We are out, people!!!!! Face reality, please. Some of you remind of that "miracle in Kharkiv" nonsense back in 2012
The worst is that I see some people here saying "no matter if we don't go now, we'll go in 2018". We forget that there are France and Sweden in the group. The pressure will be even bigger if Holland misses 2016. Remember we had to go through the play off and lost the 1st leg in 2004 after having missed 2002. Now the group will be even harder.
That is correct, although I'm not sure if Czechia can help their current position too much. They are now 10th in UEFA standings, and don't look like they can go much higher given the teams in front of them. They might be able to catch Portugal and Switzerland, depending on the results of those sides in the remaining matches. Iceland on the other hand are currently way down in 22nd, so winning the group might make a real difference in their seeding, probably putting them into one higher pot. So maybe it is Iceland playing for the draw in Turkey that will save Holland's bacon! http://www.footballseeding.com/national-ranking-uefa/ranking-2015/
To go by your line of players: De Vrij, yes. People here think he made steps, but I don't see it. Softie and made clear mistakes again. BMI is an idiot and just not good enough. However he is not a mental midget IMO. Good for the dressing room, hard singing during anthem, but not afraid. He is just not good. Bruma is a mistake king and also just not good enough. Look at some of his crosses this game. He does had some strong headers and he radiates at least something that he wants to put a limb on the line to get the ball away. He at least puts his head in. Janmaat is a horrible defender, but has more bravado and forward drive. He brings more of a front foot idea into the team than van der Wiel, bombing forward here and there. I think de Vrij is also a mental midget, yes, but the rest less so. He had not the worst game against Iceland though and has certain build up qualities. I have already stated before that I do not see de Vrij as a solution. Van der Wiel is a screaming case to me. Failed with football for some time now for the NT, does not play for club (I mean what kind of signal does that send though the team, what does that say about the status of the NT and how match ready is a player that does not play games?) and he just radiates fear. That creeps into the team and needs to be fixed. I don't think he should even be called up, but there he is, playing 180 minutes. After Iceland it was a perfect time to solve this problem and bring in Tete. Blind did not do that and I fear that he will just continue with Wiel. Maybe if he does not play for PSG for a longer time he will not continue. Where you an I differ is Janmaat. You go for Wiel, I go with Janmaat. Blind needs to adres this mental issue in the team and though there are more fixes to be done, Wiel is the most obvious one to me. The fact he does not do that, is for me a huge indication that he is not guarding the mental toughness of his team like a pitbull. That breeds a climate where we can lose for the first time in 52 years a qualification game at home against Germany, no I mean Iceland. Blind has the power to make statements to let this not slip and he does not do it. That is what angers me. As for so many players being mediocre, of course. I have even started a thread about this whole state we are in, but we are not that bad, that we have to lose 6 points to Iceland and be undressed with 3-0 against a mediocre Turkey (this is in no way a strong generation for them either).
Missing two big competitions in 14 years is something so disappointing. England missed EC2008 and the last before was WC 94. So they're at the same level as us in a way. France last missed was WC94 but they organized in 98, 2016 and were automatically qualified in 2002 as well... Spain and Italy was EC 92 Germany hasn't missed anything
This is a very good point. How are we going to advance from that group with the lack of quality we are having? This was our chance to go to an end tournament again. We might be looking at back to back failure. This might also have serious financial consequences for the KNVB and thus Dutch football.
I wouldnt even call this a generation, I call them a temporary patch job until the real next generation comes alomg
That was the way BvMarwijk coached the team. Perform each match, friendly or qualifier doesnot make a difference, or someone else takes your place. BvM took that lesson from the Euro loss against Russia, after we did take the foot from the pedal against Rumania. Get in the winning mood and donot dare to slow down.
Agree with most of it. But for me it doesn't matter if a player is fearful or incompetent. In both cases they shouldn't play for us. Or at least be replaced at the soonest opportunity when a better option presents itself. And I just have to mention Narsingh. The guy hasn't played two consecutive decent games since his days at Heerenveen. He consistently fails to make use of his limited qualities, stick to the line, use speed, cross it in. I see him cutting inside all the time when he has no business doing that ever. He was the person with the biggest chances the last two games and absolutely butchered them. Also Wijnaldum and to lesser extend Klaassen are fearful in the sense that they prefer not to get the ball until the 16 meter box. I would rather see guys like Anita and Ziyech.
I still cant wrap my head around Luuk playing ahead of Huntelaar and Dost. Somebody please help me with that one
Yeah, the way people dealt with extra difficulties, like having to play also that friendly and winning it was a mental test. He always said when people started to throw in the lines like " Yeah but they have to play so many games these days", " alright, but how do you deal with that?". He always bounced the excuses that came up back with that question and it created a climate where players learned to deal with all the extra problems that came their way. That actually creates mental toughness. What was the reaction when we gave away the game against the USA? When we lost to Mexico? When we lost to Italy? Sure, friendlies, but they can be used as building blocks to harden mentality. What happened to that line of thinking? It has gone out of the window and we are mental midgets ATM. We are even playing worse than our own mediocre ceiling. Hiddink and Blind have not secured any process where we toughen up and we are now seeing the results on top of being mediocre. Wiel should never have survived so long. He is not even playing for his club, while Nigel for example is playing for Milan and is not even selected. Nigel at least has some mental toughness and adds a bit of bite. Blind certainly made choices and we are out of a simple group while they made the setup easier to qualify and we lost for the first time in over 50 years to not Germany at home, but Iceland. We lost 6 points to Iceland. What an outrage. What a catastrophe and the calm matter of realizing this from both players and coach adds to insult. It smells like we have entered the ground where players do not seem to care all that much or not as much as they should. Absolute horrendous failure.
Dick Advokaat did it with the Belgians. Mr Big star Kompany thought that he was untouchable and arrived a day late for the training with the national team. Dick told him he could get back on the plane. That signaled to every wannabee Belgian Nat team player to take the national team serious.
Cause Eredivisie players have the priority nowadays. Klaassen, Narsingh and Bruma shouldn't start neither, we have better players for these spots too.
Luuk can play target man while Dost and Huntelaar both are finishers with fairly similar skill sets. If the coach wants to play opportunistic long balls/crosses or wants to stretch the field there is a case for fielding De Jong, even if he is the worst striker of the lot. With RVP, De Jong and Dost/Huntelaar there are three different types of striker available who can all have situational use.
Yes, but to make sure you understand me well, I think van der Wiel, is both. He is incompetent and fearful. For example, I do not trust BMI either since he is incompetent and an idiot. An idiot that can get us a red card for example. Here we might differ: Weighing the fear component and the incompetency, vdWiel still is better than Janmaat for you. That is an evaluation. All I say from my side is that the mentality of the group is at a low point (I mean signals have been everywhere, just to name one is how we gave away the game to the USA) and then adding players to the group that add to that low mental level is creating a group culture that can actually sink to the level where we lose 6 points to Iceland. We suck, but not that much. If our incompetent folks be themselves, we should simply win at home in a do or die game vs Iceland. Even with their incompetency. Iceland has plenty of jokers running around as well. And Blind continued to play Wiel over Tete. His Wiel selection was 1 for me, his 180 minutes for him is another. He just continued with a person that for me embodies what is sinking us, lack of mental fortitude. It is funny a bit of a pit bull is actually the nr 2, making things more frustrating. Narsingh is a good call. Very frustrating. Wijnaldum has been a ghost in the NT. Actually I think that around that FC Twente game vs PSV that ended with something like 6-2 or whatever big scoreline, I realized that he looks dynamic, but does not properly track back. We also know that he often comes into the 16, but misses so many chances. Both kill us in the NT. He is a big reason why Sneijder and Klaassen also looked bad in the Iceland game. Wijnaldum is a problem and he needs to stop getting chances. Klaassen is a weird case. He does get stuck in, is a fighter and will risk a limb, but he has cowardice in how he plays. A lot of back passes and safety passing. However what struck me most from these 2 NT games is how sloppy he can be with his passing. Had 1 or 2 good ones that created an opportunity in the end, but he also simply misplaced passes in both games in a way that makes me unconformable. Well, no wonder we are incompetent and mental midgets as an NT at the moment. I just think the van der Wiel case is the screaming version (Narsingh as well though) with 2 players like Janmaat and Tete having more bravado and Tete even being more of a defensive pitbull (they are right there to step in), plus vd Wiel not playing at PSG, plus causing us headache with his mistakes, plus past games making me already resist him.
But what is weird though is that Blind specifically said that he wanted crosses from the side, not from the back. Long balls from the back often get headed back, alright, but if what you say is true, that Dost and Huntelaar are better finishers, then with crosses from the side, especially the Memphis drivers into the goal, then a case for Huntelaar can still be made. I don't think Blind is off the hook looking at what he said himself.
There needs to be a major shakeup after this game. In net I would start with Krul over Cillessen. Until Cillessen can prove that he can stop a penalty he'll continue to be a liability for us. He inspires no confidence in net; it's so bad that sometimes I feel like turning away when I see the opposition get a clear run at him. That's not the kind of image a GK should project. At defense, Willems/Janmaat on the flanks, with Blind/van Dijk centrally. Like DRB said de Vrij isn't a permanent solution, it's better to give someone else a look. Janmaat is going through a slump with Newcastle at the moment, but I'm optimistic that he will turn it around (remember he didn't perform well this time last year either, then ended up being one of their best players by the end of the season). At midfield, I want Anita as the holding mid, with Sneijder and Clasie alongside him. In a perfect world I would take Strootman over Sneijder, but it remains to be seen how he will perform after his rehabilitation. Upfront Robben-Dost-Depay. Huntelaar isn't performing at club level or with the NT. van Persie had some good touches early on, then was useless by the 2nd half. Dost isn't the most technically refined player, but the guy knows how to score (16 goals in 21 games last season) and he's a threat in the air as well.
I don't agree with Blind's substitutions nor his first eleven but I think there was a case for preferring De Jong over either Huntelaar or Dost in the selection.