Twellman: MLS and Altidore in discussions.

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by FoxBoro 143, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's extremely rare for a team/club to go from a direct style/system to a free-flowing 4-3-3 type system in one off-season/summer. And I think the latter is what's needed for Jozy, especially given his price tag.

    If there was a fair amount of quality youth about to break in like we've seen at FCD, then one could hold out hope but it seems quite a stretch in the course of a few months that TFC could do a 180 and employ a system with the talent/quality/movement to fit Jozy. There's a helluva lot which would go into that. It'd be tough to do that in 1-2 seasons as you're really changing the philosophy of a club.

    One thing about Jozy is he's proven not to be versatile. He's not Clint. He really needs a system tailored to skillset. I personally think he'd be more likely to find that in Holland or France, maybe Germany but if he were to come to MLS, I think the four teams I mentioned above would be the few worth the risk, and his price tag is a risk at this current time in MLS.

    As a TFC fan, wouldn't you prefer 5-6M/Y going elsewhere? Striker really doesn't seem to be a weakness, Defoe or not. I'd be looking to spend big on a ACM to put in front of Mike. I also think taking a risk on a guy like Shea would have been better given the strengths/weakness of your team. But trying to find a younger Javier Morales type would be my real focus. That's the most bang for your buck IMO and with 5M available, I'd be all over S America. Or I'd be talking to Mix if going the USNTer route.
     
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  2. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    TFC apparently made an offer for Sebastian Giovinco *shrug*
    http://translate.google.ca/translat...mls-pressing-del-toronto-fc.shtml&prev=search
     
  3. SoCalYid

    SoCalYid Member+

    Jun 11, 2011
    BigSoccer :)
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait so you would rather have Jozy than Giovinco?

    That would be an excellent signing for TFC imo. Especially because Gio is a much better player when he's more of a focal point, similar to Di Natale. His season at Parma a couple seasons ago are a perfect example of this.
     
  4. SoCalYid

    SoCalYid Member+

    Jun 11, 2011
    BigSoccer :)
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He gets lost in the mass of players at Juve and he's never going to be a key player there but he's a good player. Despite his size he's a warrior and he gives 110% all the time. I would take him at the Galaxy if we didn't have Keane.

     
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  5. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

    Jun 14, 2011
    Fantasyland
    They already know the end is nigh. Their in about stage 4 of the grieving process. You'll know when the process is over because they'll be here.

    Love the atomic ant.
     
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  6. EvilTree

    EvilTree Member+

    Canadian S.C
    Canada
    Nov 20, 2007
    Frozen Swampland, Soviet Canuckistan
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    actually no. I'm all for a CAM instead of Jozy. I just have my doubts that TFC can actually get Giovinco
     
    SoCalYid repped this.
  7. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

    Dec 3, 2009
    Colorado
    I think it would be really fun to see how Giovinco would do.

    Edit: I could see him being a fan favorite, little guy, dynamo, skilled. He's a little guy so I'm sure defenders would try to body him off the ball, but they'd have to catch him first.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think on the right team, Jozy would almost be a bargain at that price. He had 51 goals in 93 games in Holland, which has a somewhat better league than MLS. Imagine him with RSL...they have almost no room for improvement with attendance, but on the field, he'd threaten getting 30 goals in a season if he stayed healthy. If Kreis can build something similar to the style he had at RSL, Jozy would dominate in 2016. You put Jozy in Charlie Davies' place, and he a) boosts NE attendance enough to almost be worth and b) makes the Revs the favorites for MLS Cup 2015.

    If you have a quality midfield in MLS and you put Jozy up top, I'm telling ya, the over/under on goals scored for a healthy Jozy would be about 25.

    But there would be teams where he'd be a complete waste. If he goes to TFC, oh my lord that would be a disaster. Or NYRB...that would be awful unless they seriously upgrade the midfield, plus, to me, his strengths and weaknesses are almost identical to BWP's so what's the point? Etc.
     
  9. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    Columbus Crew (hometown), Minnesota United (close ties), Colorado Rapids (now home), Jacksonville Armada (ties)
    United States
    May 9, 2003
    Ashtabula, OH / Denver, CO / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How high is Gilberto's salary? Enough to buy down with allocation $?

    If so, and they could (keep Defoe? but even still just) get Giovinco, and pick up another CB (solid in-league or mid-level European likely), and some depth in the draft, they could be amazing.
     
  10. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    Vancouver would be a great match for Jozy--fed by Pedro Morales, crosses by Rosales, speed guys around him like Hurtado and Manneh.
     
  11. USFootiefan1980

    LAFC
    United States
    Aug 19, 2005
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I hear Oregon is making the switch to grass in June/July... right? ;)
     
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  12. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Over a million. So no.
     
  13. gstommylee

    gstommylee Member+

    Oct 3, 2008
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Imo it would be a mistake to do grass in the middle of the season. It needs to root properly in the ground.
     
  14. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

    Jun 20, 2007
    Home
    Buzzkill.
     
  15. USAsports6

    USAsports6 Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Oct 17, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This would be great for the league if Jozy came back. Kind of disappointed NYCFC, but it'd be good for the league as a whole regardless of which team he goes to.
     
  16. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're thinking of the wrong kind of grass. He was thinking of

    [​IMG]

    and you were thinking of

    [​IMG]
     
  18. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's ****ed up.

    Portland had the top allocation spot and wanted Clint, yet MLS changed the rules and allowed Clint to go to Sea, then the league came out and said allocation doesn't apply to incoming DP's. Now Portland sits behind TFC in the allocation order, and TFC gets priority while allocation suddenly matters again for an incoming DP.

    This allocation rule is just stupid in general. Jozy has to go through it but a Beckham/Keane/Henry/Cahill/Defoe don't. USNTers are actually penalized more than other incoming foreign DP's. Let Por and TFC battle it out for his signature. Despite the fear mongering, competition is good and the league won't fall apart.

    If I'm Portland, a small market watching two big markets benefit from clear favoritism, I'd be incredibly pissed. What good is this premise of parity if big markets keep getting more assistance than the smaller markets? I'd be pissed if I was a fan of any smaller market team watching this. The rules have suddenly changed again and a big market team would be the benefactor, again.

    My biggest issue is this is hardly true competition. If I'm Portland looking at this, it's not near an even playing field.
     
  19. aperfectring

    aperfectring Member+

    Jul 13, 2011
    Hillsboro, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Maybe I'm cynical, but I expect the league to do just that. MLS (and every sports league in this country) has a vested interest in making their major markets do well, because there is a larger potential for money to be earned from there. The league office is acting in the way that it feels benefits the league as a whole. At times that aligns with helping smaller markets, and at times that means screwing over smaller markets (like when the Beckham rule was made, or these instances). Getting the "big name" stars into the cities where the most people can get exposure to them is always going to be a goal of the league FO.

    In the other major leagues, they don't usually have to be so blatant about favoritism, because the teams already have the money and fan support to do it mostly on their own, but that favoritism still exists.
     
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  20. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the premise is to ride the success of the big markets and big teams, then loosen the purse strings, let them grow faster and ride the wave.

    But if the premise is parity and everyone has a shot at winning MLS Cup, then stop giving them favoritism.

    But don't tell me it's about parity and everyone having a chance, then continuing to prop up the big markets. Portland likely won't get a Keane or Gerrard or Henry to sign for them, so when a guy like Jozy is interested, it's even more important he ends up there if he's interested. Portland is exactly what MLS wants, a great example of a small market success story like SKC. They put them on national tv as much as they can, they celebrate their success, their fan base. So stop handicapping them while making it easier for a Sea or TFC.

    Still, allocation is dumb when you have different rules for USNTers than English NTers or French NTers, among others.
     
  21. areathrasher

    areathrasher Member

    Mar 26, 2014
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
  22. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS is about controlled growth. Loosen the purse strings too much and you have a situation like NASL the first time around which had great growth due to teams like the Cosmos but was unsustainable and collapsed. Go for complete parity and you aren't tapping in enough to the engines of growth which are the larger markets. It ain't pretty and certainly by no means conventional compared to leagues around the world, but MLS seems to have a pretty good grasp of how to grow the league in the US for the long-term while protecting the interests of it's franchise holders.
     
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  23. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that's not what I'm proposing at all. There's an enormous gap between what we have now and an all-out spending spree like we saw in the NASL days.

    And I've outlined a few times what I'd do in the YBTD forum.

    But in general, if the defense of MLS helping Clint to Sea or Jozy to TFC is helping the big markets because big markets will carry the league, which I agree with to an extent, then you've got to allow them to do more than they are currently. But if the priority is parity and giving everyone a shot, Jozy to Portland should be the priority.

    A question I ask is, do people want true competition or not? I personally do. This ain't it. Big markets have more resources than smaller ones. They don't need a helping hand behind closed doors on top of that behind ever changing rules which funny enough, keep compromising competition and benefiting the big markets.
     
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  24. aperfectring

    aperfectring Member+

    Jul 13, 2011
    Hillsboro, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    MLS isn't ready to completely let go of the reins, because most of the small market teams aren't in THAT strong of a position. They are working towards a much more open and free model, though, and have been for some time.

    My personal motivations: I want to watch the best possible professional soccer live in Portland. If that is in MLS (which it currently is), fine. If not, fine. I want what is best for Portland's team, and that means that I'd like Jozy to come here. However, I understand (and expect) that the league has other motivations. In general, there's a lot of stuff that MLS does that I don't particularly like. But I am willing to deal with that stuff because I want to watch the best possible professional soccer live in Portland, and that currently exists as an MLS team.
     

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