The search for top class English/British managers.

Discussion in 'England' started by YankBastard, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 YankBastard, Dec 17, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
    I was looking at the Premiere League managers and wondered why most EPL managers aren't English/British as well as England preferring foreign managers in the past as well as in the future.

    I was reading Harry Redknapp's autobiography and I think he explains it pretty well. I'm typing it from the audiobook version so please excuse any misspelling or punctuation. Sorry for the length, I tried to make it as pithy as possible. I promise it should be worth reading.

    ....I sometimes get asked whether if I had my career in Premiere League football if I would still go into management as I did in Bournemouth in 1983. The answer has to be no.

    ...A lot of modern players talk about wanting to get into coaching, but when the reality presents itself, it's not the job they thought it would be. Take Frank Lampard. Now that he's finished at Chelsea, would he really want to take job at, say, Gillingham the way I did at Bournemouth? He might have earned three times as much in one week as the Gillingham manager would earn in one year. The financial imperative that players of my generation faced simply would not be apart of Frank's life.

    Let's face it, if you've been earning 200 grand a week, would you take job for 80 grand a year that involves going out every night watching inferior games and inferior players on the off chance of finding a gem? The chairman is driving you mad because he wants success whether it's League 2 or not. And you're commuting to a rotten training ground in the middle of winter with players who aren't in the same class as the lads you've played with you're entire career.

    ....It's different if a top player is going to walk and manage Chelsea, but in years gone by, that didn't happen.

    .....Kenny Dalglish's appointment as the Liverpool manager came as a huge surprise. Everyone else took the less glamorous route...Even Bobby Moore, England's World Cup winning captain. He ended up at Southend United while Sir Bobby Charleton got a job at Preston North End. It made no difference then if you were a great player.

    ....Mere mortals have a lot to learn. The basics of working with players, finding a way to win, and having to rough it away from the 5 star lifestyle. For the great players now, the top players, this can be hard for them to just walk in and do a job without serving that lower league apprenticeship. They're missing so much by learning the ropes the old way because there's still so much to understand...I can't see too many of today's successful players wanting to do it if they don't need to.

    I look at the makeup at the television panel these days and there are some of our best players and brightest minds sitting in the studio! Guys who could've really made a difference. But they don't need the money. So do they want the hassle? I even ask myself that from time to time. In the end, I think all of our young British coaches will end up being ex players from the lower divisions.


    ...Take Ryan Giggs. It was never even considered that he might follow the Bobby Charleton route and end up at Preston. If he was entering coaching, it was Manchester United or nothing. If Stockport County had phoned him up, I think it would have been the shortest conversation of all time.

    Steve Bruce has been around some lower division clubs and was he even considered for the Manchester United job? No. Because a few times in his career, it hasn't worked out. Yet that would be true of Louis Van Gaal too if had spent his managerial life at the likes of at the likes of Sheffield United, Huddersfield Town, or even Hull City. Van Gaal couldn't have done a better job with Hull than Bruce did last year. But did that make a ripple at Old Trafford? So Giggs is not taking that risk.

    ...Modern players are as likely to be media men or agents as run a team. I don't blame them.

    ...But how many of this generation of English footballers will be able to find a job higher up? That's the big question now. Foreign players, foreign coaches, foreign owners. It's not just the continental influence.....but the influence of foreign chairmen. There's barely an elite club that's in the hands of a local businessman or a diehard wealthy fan these days....and this has changed the culture of the English game forever.

    ...Despite all of our best efforts to encourage homegrown talent. I can only see the opportunities for English coaches and players getting fewer. There seems to be a lack of trust in our own football people which started at the top when the FA appointed Sven-Göran Eriksson...

    ....At club level, the foreign owners come in and, obviously, they only know big names. So it's big names they want. They're not interested in delving into the Championship to give somebody a chance. There are only two ways an up and coming English manager gets a Premiere League job these days: He gets promoted...or takes over a club that looks doomed as Tony Pulis did at Crystal Palace and somehow stays up.

    And it's not just top clubs that are foreign-owned these days. Even Derby County and Bournemouth are owned abroad these days. So the old dynamic around English football is altered.


    ....Even if you look at the England team. Who's the next manager after Roy Hodgson? Who jumps out at ya? Gary Neville? He's never even managed a club. He's not done his apprenticeship, even on the coaching staff at Manchester United. Gareth Southgate is in charge at the U21 level, but I think he should go off and do well in club football before he gets that chance.
     
  2. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    1) It's the Premier League (no e on the end of premier)
    2) You weren't looking close enough then. 20 managers in the Premier League - 12 are from the United Kingdom.
    3) Go troll elsewhere.
     
  3. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I typed all that. I wouldn't have typed that much if I just wanted to troll. And I admit that I was looking more at managers at the more "elite clubs" and the national team more than the lower PL clubs. Sorry about the spelling errors again.
     
  4. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    So you come in here with a half arsed, poorly researched theory? Using Harry " It was for my dog" Redknapp as exhibit #1

    Well done on being able to type.
     
  5. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, what's your theory?
     
  6. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    It's the same as it ever was. In the last 30/40 years which top class British players have become great managers?
     
  7. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're saying that a top class player has to become a top class manager? That you have to be a top player to be a top manager capable of winning the WC? Was Joachim Löw a top class player?
     
  8. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    No - I am saying that Redknapp's theory and by extension yours is a piece of crap.

    Please name which top class British players in the last 30/40 years became a top class manager. The Ryan Giggs equivalent of 30/40 years ago. That's your theory, not mine.

    The better British managers in the last 30/40 years have tended to be those who weren't elite players. Ergo - Same as it ever was.
     
  9. YankBastard

    YankBastard Na Na Na Na NANANANAAA!

    Jun 18, 2005
    Estados Unidos
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh OK, I thought you were saying that the next manager needs to be a player that was an elite player. All you had to say that was that. He was probably writing that because everyone is saying that the likes of Neville and Giggs and Southgate, people that did have successful careers, were on peoples' shortlist to become the next great English/British managers.

    He was also going on about the fact that the next crop of young managers might not get their chance to make it because of the owners/FA beginning to rely on foreign coaches and not giving local talent their chance.
     
  10. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

    Aug 27, 2005
    Shifting.
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Be interesting how Eddie Howe progresses.
     
  11. TRS-T

    TRS-T Member

    Aug 21, 2014
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Terrible decision by the FA.
     
  12. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't care who the next manager is as long as he is black. It's time for us to set an example for the rest of the world.

    Did any of you know there will only be 3 black managers at the Africa Nations Cup coming up - out of 16 teams?
     
  13. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Sol Campbell it is then.
     
  14. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    He'll be saving the country in other ways - through politics.
     
  15. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    He can do both - Quite obviously has the capability.
     
  16. TRS-T

    TRS-T Member

    Aug 21, 2014
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Yeah it's a joke - only 3 African managers at the African Cup of Nations.

    It's why I'd like to see foreign managers outlawed in international football by FIFA.
     
  17. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Who are you - Henry Ford?
     
  18. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    No. The British Al Sharpton.
     
  19. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    saying al sharpton is the equivalent as typing :D to indicate you were just joking!
     
  20. The Guardian

    The Guardian Member+

    Jul 31, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    In Trevor Phillips' brave documentary, Things We Won't Say About Race That Are True, there was a section on the lack of black managers (the lack of black male teachers might have been a more interesting investigation), with Les Ferdinand complaining about the lack of opportunities for him (as a black man) to get a football managers job. But Trevor didn't even ask him what HE had done to get one - other than complain.

    I didn't see the prog on John Barnes last night but apparently he was making similar claims. Britain's finest sports columnist, Martin Samuel, is especially good on racial matters (going where other white men would fear to tread) and has briefly commented on his claims:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Poor-results-did-John-Barnes-not-racism.html
     
  21. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Currently I would say all the best English coaches are in jobs. A mix of coaches who pride their teams on hard-work but also some with a continental if you want to put it that way footballing philosophy.

    I would probably say only Alan Pardew is out of a job. I'm not saying I rate him or not but that he has a decent track record over the years. some of his teams haven't been dire.

    Premier League

    Eddie Howe - Burnley
    Sean Dyche - Burnley
    Sam Allardyce - Palace
    Paul Clement - Swansea

    Championship

    Gary Monk - Leeds
    Paul Heckingbottom - Barnsley
    Simon Grayson - Preston
    Steve Bruce - Villa
    Mark Warburton - Forest
    Gary Rowett - Derby
    Nigel Clough - Burton
    Dean Smith - Brentford

    * Not going to mention the two old war-horses Warnock and Holloway ;)

    In the lower leagues there was talk about Karl Robinson for a while and Darrell Clarke as well but they still have a way to go clearly.

    But I suppose we've got to ask ourselves what pathway are these guys following. Is it through academy football, assistants or working their way up the ladder in the lower leagues.

    I am not a big fan of Southgate but I suppose there was no one quite ready for the role at this stage but I genuinely think there is development to come in many of the above. Some are your old war horses like Allardyce and Bruce (opportunities past them by now) but they've known how to get results and have to be put down as amongst the best.

    I appreciate Howe, Monk, Heckingbottom, Warburton & Smith for their football philosophies and how they want to play the game mostly. I guess as fans you would like that but as club coaches are they to LT thinking to be England national team coach.
     
    hussar repped this.
  22. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    And there are also a few talented coaches in the lower divisions who would be worth watch out for: Danny Cowley (Lincoln), Paul Hurst (Shrewsbury), Neal Ardley (Wimbledon), even Michael Appleton at Oxford. Bit older, but Chris Wilder seems like a very good manager, also Keith Hill. And don't forget Lee Johnson who is still only 36, and he could survive his first year at Bristol.
     
    Garibaldi11 repped this.
  23. hussar

    hussar Member+

    Jun 24, 2015
    Also, I agree that Pardew isn't a completely lost cause, he has worse press than actually he's doing. I wonder will Nigel Adkins get another chance somewhere? He was a "future England manager" by some when he got Southampton promoted, but after that he was a disappointment.
     
    Garibaldi11 repped this.
  24. Garibaldi11

    Garibaldi11 Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC

    Yeah Adkins, McDermott and Sherwood left as quick as they came.

    Nigel Pearson is also someone in the not so pretty category but still developing as a coach. Like Clement had a disaster at Derby this season but a relative success at Hull and Leicester.
     
    hussar repped this.
  25. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    No mention for Chris Hughton? Looking set to get himself promoted to the Premier League again and he's not that Irish really ;)

    Some good managers there, but I don't really see much of a viable pathway for the best of this bunch (say Eddie Howe) to get a shot at one of the "top six" domestic jobs anytime soon.
     

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