Exactly my point and that is what I as a fan of the league, want to see more of. Or rather , younger and faster players as opposed to an Over 35 Sunday coasting league. This is what I believe, every MLS owner , GM , coach and especially fans would want. I don't know many fans of the game who wouldn't want or aspire that.
Okay - so you're talking about the lesser end of top flight Italian players and good players in the divisions below. First off, I don't see how they and a Steven Gerrard are mutually exclusive as MLS targets. In fact, LA Galaxy's recent success has involved a blend of both, as well as other factors. We have decent foreign players in their prime such as Juninho and Jaime Penedo. We've obviously had the high-profile veteran DPs such as Keane and Beckham. We've got good US-born talent in the likes of Gonzales (now of course a DP), DeLaGarza and Zardes. We also have solid journeymen from both home and abroad in the likes of Dan Gargan and Marcelo Sarvas. The obstacle to players who may not necessarily have a serious future in the top leagues (or only as bit-parts) who may be useful to MLS, are the salary cap and maximum pay. Whether MLS is progressing in the right direction in this respect will be better assessed at the announcement of the CBA. Gerrard coming here does little to impact that aspect of the league. I have to say, I find your listing of failed older players a little disingenuous. I already pointed out that one player's 32 is another's 37. It's not like Lampard and Gerrard are bad EPL players right now. For every Luis Hernandez, there's a Marco Di Vaio. Likewise, for every Fredy Montero, there's an Alex Cazumba.
Again, I'm not sure what the argument is. Maybe you think differently and you can have your own opinion and that is fine and I respect it. You want to see these older players playing across the league or in NY & LA then that is great for you. Speaking for myself, as a fan of the league, my point remains , as a fan of the league , I would much rather see 4 or 5 good younger quality foreign players in their 20's running up and down a field rather than one 37 year old forward who comes here on his last legs for his last big pay day and who will given the history of players that age, will more often than not, be around for a year or two at best. The younger players will last longer, will probably contribute more on the field , score more goals and mostly likely improve quality all around. I don't know how any fan of the game wouldn't want or can not see that. This is my opinion and you can disagree if you wish and that is fine but I stand by this point.
Your opinion is certainly respected Falvo but i think its fair to say your in the vast minority if you think 4 - 5 young players will be coming near the MLS if they have any options in Europe. The price in transfer fees alone make the idea unfeesable but the biggest sticking point is clearly prestige. Theres no getting around that . You think young kids in Brazil are watching Neymar and thinking wow you know what would be brilliant ?? I could go play in Dallas ... No , these people are influenced by their heros who for as long as i remember will join elite european clubs , if not they will join teams in Belgium , Ukraine , Holland in the hope of moving onto elite clubs at a later stage.
"Rather than" - again, that's not the situation we're dealing with here. LA didn't pass on Juninho because they had Beckham. They signed both. Many of the truly over-the-hill stars you listed came when MLS was in its infancy. The league was far worse then, so the kind of "big name" you could attract was going to generally have declined more before they were prepared to come. MLS has progressed to the point where such players don't last here long. The failures quickly go away. I also don't get your stance that succesful older players will only be here for a couple of years. First off, you're painting with a broad brush. Henry, Keane, Beckham, Juan Pablo Angel are just a few examples of players who were (are in Keane's case) here for a significant amount of time. Secondly, you're missing that a particularly successful younger player could just as easily be gone in a couple of years due to getting attention from bigger clubs in bigger leagues. Last but not least, two years is not a short space of time in football. It's two entire seasons. Given that MLS is very much a parity-driven, "Win now" league, two seasons of a Steven Gerrard slightly past his prime but performing well for the Galaxy, is a valuable commodity on and off the field. You say you prefer good younger players over talented older players. I say, we can easily have the best of both worlds.
My point initially though was you pay these guys higher salaries. If you take a page out of the old NASL, how many English players came to that league? Sure there was Pele who was the oldest and you had Best , Alberto , Cruyff, Chinaglia and Franz but what about all the middle of the road guys who no one knew about from England or Scotland? Paul Child, Ken Fogarty, Laurie Calloway, Bob McAlinden, Alan Merick, Terry Garbet, Tony Field, Dave Kemp ,Godfrey Ingram, Vince Hillaire, Chris Dangerfield , John Bain , Bruce Grobelaar and Phil Parks. Why did those guys come here in their 20's or before their 30's? Those guys ended up performing better and doing more on the pitch than players who had much better resumes and accolades and I'm sure where they came from there are many , many others. The trick is finding and signing them. Sure but there are so many players playing in South America no one ever heard of that are wasting through the cracks. Kaka was unknown in 2001 and 2002 and Milan bought him for only 8 million dollars and sold him I believe for $100 million 5 years later. No one knew or heard of him at the time and as a matter of fact, everyone ridiculed his name. My point is, where he came from, I'm sure there are tons of others and I don't believe they aren't out there. I also agree with what the poster who posted about Udinese and the scouting or finding great players utilizing them and selling them off.
Kaka was unheard of in 2001 - 02 ? You mean the same Kaka who was part of the Brazil winning world cup squad that year ? ha , literally the worst example you could have chose. Plus , the scouting networks that European clubs have are too far ahead of anything MLS will ever have unfortunately that very very few players slip through the cracks
Then your problem is with the salary cap. It's not like the Galaxy had the choice between hiring Gerrard for $6 mil a year or hiring 6 young players for $1 mil each. It's been pointed out, but while people like to talk about the Galaxy spending on old guys, the club has done exactly what you described: Juninho arrived at 22 and was only one of three young Brazilian players brought in. We've also brought in players from Uruguay, Sweden, Costa Rica, 2.Bundesliga, and Ligue 2. Some of those guys worked out and some didn't. In fact, the Galaxy has imported more foreign players than they've signed old stars.
Kaka was in the Brazil World Cup squad in 2002 at the age of 20 before Milan signed him in 2003. The English players you mention in most weren't good enough to have a career in England and wound up playing in the MISL when NASL folded. If they had been that good, they could have returned to England and played professionally in the lower leagues. Terry Garbett was in his thirties when he joined the Cosmos. Yes, you can pay Serie B players to come here, providing they don't have much of a future in the EPL or Serie A and they aren't getting comparable offers from places like Turkey, Portugal or Holland. That has nothing to do with Steven Gerrard. It's a salary cap issue. If anything, getting a Gerrard here and reaping the commercial benefits increases our ability to pay those players more. At the same time, I don't see that what you describe isn't happening already. Like I said, Juninho and Penedo are examples of that approximate level of player. So are Alvaro Saborio, Sebastien Le Toux, Bradley Wright-Phillips, Nigel Reo-Coker, Joao Plata, etc. In fact, based on those NASL players career trajectories after the league, I would argue the players I listed are probably better than they were. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Not true at all. There were so many players who came over who were nothing in England and who went back and made something of themselves. To name a few name players, Chinaglia came at 29, but what about Steve Hunt who was a relatively unknown player who went back to Europe and played for Coventry City? For that matter, Peter Ward, Roy Wegerle, Bruce Grobellar or Teófilo Cubillas, Zungul, Terclecki, Rudi Krol, Johan Neeskens? There are tons of players who came when they were younger fore and were nothing and I still can't name any who were 37 years of age other than GK Kevin Keelan who came at that age.
Rudi Krol? Who had won the European Cup 3 times and played in 2 World Cup Finals was an unknown before he played in NASL?
On the contrary. I'm at work and am posting while I'm working. Rudi Krol was a top name player who made came played at Vancouver and then went to Napoli aand played 4 years. He was only 31. Yes over 30 but he was a top player. This is my point. No one came at 37.
Krol & Johan Neeskens ???? Seriously mate . Barroldinho makes a great point ;I don't see that what you describe isn't happening already. Like I said, Juninho and Penedo are examples of that approximate level of player. So are Alvaro Saborio, Sebastien Le Toux, Bradley Wright-Phillips, Nigel Reo-Coker, Joao Plata, etc.
Again, I'm at work and am posting thoughts as I'm busy but you never heard of them? Seriously? Neeskens was 28 when he came after playing in a WC final I believe. My point was he was a top player under the age 30 when he came here.
Ok - You are editing your argument as you get things pointed out. Please name the top players around 30 that MLS should sign. Please name the younger players that MLS should sign. Bear in mind - Transfer fee and wages. Be realistic, don't just say Messi and Ronaldo. For example - Someone like Bastian Schweinsteiger has a similarish resume to Krol at this point in their career. How much do you think it would a) Cost in transfer fee b) Cost in wages for MLS to sign him?
No no i have heard of them hence my suprise at you mentioning him seeing as you were classing them as someone who had achieved nothing before he came to America.
Haven't thought about it and certainly don't have time now to think it through now. No big as I just posted thoughts and beliefs. Either way, forget about all this the back and forth. To each his own but I still don't see why is it such a big deal to want a league showcasing younger players. I think every if not most fans in every league in the world would want that. Anyway, its all good carrying on....
It is because you are ignoring evidence to the contrary - People are showing you the younger players brought in.
No I am at work and I already stated I don't have time to respond and I'm just discussing my thoughts or what I believe but you are starting an argument and its really not a big deal to get worked up over. Just forget about it because you don't get my point.
You really don't read what people write to you. Other posters are showing you the younger players that are being brought in. You are ignoring their evidence. It isn't an argument, you are just tilting at windmills instead of engaging with other people.
There certainly seems to be a move towards grabbing younger players from the Scandinavian leagues as well. The Crew have signed a couple this season and I know there are a couple more who have as well.
Peter Ward was a Brighton Hove Albion legend prior to arriving in the US and scored 36 goals one year (winning the Golden Boot) in the old second division before coming over. The truth is he did very little after going back to England, and eventually ended up back in America.
Yeah that is right. I think he played indoors after he NASL folded but he was good. My point was though, he played well and was a lot younger 29 I believe, as opposed to 37 years of age when he came here. There was also NASL MVP Mike Flanagan of Charlton Athletic who was a 2nd tier player and came at 27 played for the New England Tea Men and went back and played for QPR and Crystal Palace. He was a great player from what I recall but never a top name in England. This is the type of players we could go after and find.
how have you got time to respond to that but not answer placid casuals post , id be very interest to see your response to it.