World Cup 2014 Other Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Portugal: National Teams' started by ---Z---, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I'm not citing one youth team, I am citing 3 youth teams within 5 years of eachother. That is a very deep selection of young players to choose from.

    You seem to forget that our Golden Generation started the trend of qualifying for every tournament and had players that got us to the Euro Final. Just because we didn't win trophies didn't make that generation worthless. I'm talking about having youth that will make us competitive.
     
  2. RedBullSeven

    RedBullSeven Member+

    Apr 28, 2012
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Dude, your attitude sucks. Stop overestimating the Germans. This kind of attitude could be the main reason why we always lose to the Germans.
     
  3. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I agree. The Germans were solid but this same type of Solid German team is nothing out of the ordinary. Spain had their number for 6 years and Italy owns them, the Germans faced neither. Germany deserved this World Cup but had their been a team the likes of Spain 2010, France 98, Brazil 80 they would have been played off the field.

    The only way to beat this German side is with a lot of creativity and skill, no team demonstrated that besides maybe Colombia and Chile but not to the extent that could beat the Germans.

    Germany as always will qualify for everything make the QF's minimum of the next World Cup and either blow out of the group at the Euro (unlikely now with 24 teams) or have a trip straight to the Semi's where only France, Italy and Spain could stop them.
     
  4. raviept

    raviept Member

    Jun 11, 2010
    Braga
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    That's not the point. You have to think about it proportionally. You cannot compete directly with Germany, but you can do the best you can given the resources you have. Portugal showed in recent history that it can be a second-tier (not third-tier) team in Europe consistently, reaching semis and possibly finals with some luck. You are all being overly defeatist. We can do better, and that's what you should think about, instead of promoting inferiority complexes. This is not a matter of winning it or nothing. I would be happy if we made to the 1/4 finals of Euro 2016 with a young talented team.
     
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  5. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    In Europe Portugal is a first tier team, on the world stage 2nd tier.

    Euro 2000 Semi
    Euro 2004 Final
    Euro 2008 QF's
    Euro 2012 Semi

    We've had a better 12 years in the Euro then: Germany, England, Netherlands, if not for their win in 2000 you could throw France in that list. If that makes us second tier then you're basically saying Greece is a first tier Euro side.
     
  6. RedBullSeven

    RedBullSeven Member+

    Apr 28, 2012
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #656 RedBullSeven, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    Germany's rich ass tied with Ghana's poor ass. Let that sink in to all you pessimists.
     
  7. raviept

    raviept Member

    Jun 11, 2010
    Braga
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    It's a subjective classification. For me, 1st tier is the top in terms of talent and depth, and that includes Germany, Spain, Italy, France, with Netherlands in between. Z was talking about third tier. But it doesn't matter. The point is that you should not think about this as having a golden generation and going all the way all every 10 years. Instead, we have to think about doing relatively well consistently. Qualifying to every competition and getting out of the group stages should be a priority. Everything else is difficult to predict.
     
  8. eurodad

    eurodad Member+

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    We are over analyzing this guys. In a tournament, its not always the most talented team that wins. A lot figures in to it including a little bit of old fashion luck. Im not sure Germany were the most talented team. I do think they played best as a team though.

    IMO what we are lacking is not player talent. I think we are lacking at the coaching and Federation side. A good coach with no politics when choosing players could have gotten us at the very least past the group stage. From that point on, it comes down to fitness, injuries and of course luck. Im not saying we were good enough to win it all but I was calling a final 4 of Germany vs Brazil and Argentina vs Portugal with a Germany vs Argentina final.
     
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  9. raviept

    raviept Member

    Jun 11, 2010
    Braga
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    You said it all, Germany had Bayern, Spain had Barcelona, Portugal had Porto in 2004. Chemistry is not everything, but it's very important, since it gives you an advantage over most NTs. I think the lust for chemistry was what motivated Bento to use Meireles and Veloso, but we had an alternative. Given that Sporting was doing well, he should have tried William and Adrien at some point in the qualifiers and friendlies prior to the world cup, at least as an alternative.
     
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  10. eurodad

    eurodad Member+

    Mar 15, 2005
    Brampton
    Agreed bud, the only flaw in Bento theory is thinking that some of the players he chose were ever NT quality players or were at the age where they could still perform after a long year and in the humidity that is Brazil in June. Postiga and Hugo should not have been on this team, Ronaldo should have been our striker whether Ronaldo liked it or not especially when he could not run on the wings. Meireles and Veloso are only good enough to come off the bench. Bruno gives you all he has but he can not longer do it. We had the pieces to replace these players. That is why Im saying that our problem is not our players or our development system. It is our coach and our federation.
     
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  11. dipluso

    dipluso Member+

    Jul 19, 2005
    CT
    Anyone know why Belgium is having this explosion of talent after a long hiatus from a World presence? Did they change something structural ala Germany?

    BTW, my concern vav the future right now is that we are looking at a very definite gap looking out at least 4 years. There's talk of talent in the U20, U19, U17 level but if you look at the age band between 20 and 25 year-olds we have almost nothing. You saw that already hurting us big time at this WC (average age too old = injuries) but it's going only going to get worse. Spain, France, Germany, Holland, Belgium are all fine in this respect. I think Italians fear the same problem.
     
  12. dipluso

    dipluso Member+

    Jul 19, 2005
    CT
    We didn't quite have the wealth of options that Germany had but I do agree with some of your point. In fact, Germany is the poster child for what you are saying. Germans thought Low was crazy for bringing only one striker to the WC... Meanwhile Bento went with loyalty and we ended up with a bunch of old, broken players.
     
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  13. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    So, the FIFA World Rankings after the World Cup are:

    1. Germany 1761
    2. Argentina 1689
    3. Netherlands 1525
    4. Colombia 1492
    5. Belgium 1404
    6. Uruguay 1330
    7. Spain 1229
    8. Brazil 1220
    9. Switzerland 1216
    10. France 1202
    11. Portugal 1148
     
  14. Chess_Panther

    Chess_Panther Member+

    Apr 29, 2007
    Porto, Portugal
    #664 Chess_Panther, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    I'm surprised we're 11th. But then again, who cares?

    I think our mentality played a very small role in our success or failure since 2000. I don't think the players are pessimistic. They are vain and complacency seems to be an issue every now but it's hardly the cause for the lack of trophies.

    Like eurodad said, we had to put up with a lot of bad coaching. Although I do believe that 2006 and 2012 we fulfilled our potential.

    As for beating Germany, individual talent is not necessarily a must to beat them. Take a look at Argentina (and at a smaller extent, Algeria). They were very cohesive at the back and were able to produce more goalscoring chances than Germany in the 1st half. Playing in counter-attack mode in very high tempo seems to be the key to defeat them. Ofc it's easier said than done, considering that argentinians had 9 to 10 men behind the ball at all times. Sometimes clogging their own goal area. In order to do this you need pacey midfielders that are good at first touch. However, if we had to face them tomorrow knowing this, we would probably still lose.

    Even by looking at the midfielders that are on the rise lately, none of them are pacey (with the exception of wingers ofc). If you take a close look at our most likely depth in the future, I see a ton of center midfielders that like to dictate tempo with a technique and passing above average. And who are also physically frail.

    A slightly change of topic (at least, not focusing on Germany anymore), we should seriously adopt a new tactic that emphasizes the talent we're bringing up then the good old 4-3-3. I don't think it's going to suit us. We should go back to 4-5-1 and even possibly get rid of a winger in favor of a dynamic center midfielder.

    Something like this (the asymmetric positioning was made on purpose):

    ------------------------------------------------A. Lopes----------------------------------------------------

    Cédric Soares-----------------Pepe-----------------------Neto-----------------------------F. Coentrão

    --------------------------------------------W. Carvalho---------------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------Adrien Silva-------------------------Moutinho---------------------------

    ------------------------------------------Rafa/João Mário----------------------------------C. Ronaldo

    ---------------------Marcos Lopes----------------------------------------------------------------------


    The tactical choices are plenty when you have an abundance of talented center midfielders (e.g.: Germany). They far surpass the nr of talented wingers that we have produced lately and I think it's wiser to take this route than 2 average strikers and 2 dubious wingers out of 4.

    Concerning the latter, I'm not sure if Quaresma is going to be called. If he doesn't, that leave us with C. Ronaldo, Vieirinha, Nani and Varela. Say what you want about Vieirinha, he has never delivered. He always look subpar no matter what. Varela does bring something to our game and I like him but it's hardly the kind of talent we want to keep. And Nani's inconsistency should at best make him a bench player as a sub for Ronaldo.

    If Carlos Mané does develop into a fantastic winger, we will still have a meh depth of wingers compared to a potential great depth of center midfielders. Ofc a lot of things can change in 1 or 2 years, but I am almost certain that this will happen and Bento will be too blind and stubborn to realize this. He brought 3 average and limping strikers to our WC after all.
     
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  15. The Special One

    The Special One Member+

    Aug 6, 2005
    They've had a golden generation firstly and they are stealing a lot of players from various African nations.

    Can I also just say that I think a lot of you are neglecting the fact that in Portugal the problem of promoting youth isn't a new one, everyone forgets Ricardo Carvalho was 26 at euro 2004 and he only started after the Greece loss, Maniche 26, Deco 26, don't write players off just yet, some need more time then others.
     
  16. The Special One

    The Special One Member+

    Aug 6, 2005
    That's pretty good for us seeding is in out hands now
     
  17. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Those players were over looked that is a world of difference compared to Moutinho, Meireles, Veloso who got opportunities at 21 and peaked at 25. They were pretty good for a little while but they are done now. You can't compare guys who were overlooked and then got to play to guys who got chances and either blew it or fizzled out. Time to go back to the U23 drawing board because this team needs a 10 to 13 player over haul and that isn't pessimism, it is reality. To say that these clown on the NT who individually have Ego's bigger then all of Germany's team put together and not bother preparing and look as if they are entitled to play for Portugal compared to someone like Maniche who killed himself game in and game out is insane.

    I can tell you with near certainty Germany will have 5-7 players over hauled for Euro 2016 and they just won the World Cup. By 2018 I wouldn't be surprised if they show up with only 12 of the players that were on the squad yesterday. Spain will probably have 10 new squad players by the middle of Euro 2016 qualifiers.

    There is no point to Portugal playing games if it isn't to be competitive and try to win. These clowns proved they were just there for a vacation and not one of them besides Eduardo was ashamed of it.
     
  18. The Special One

    The Special One Member+

    Aug 6, 2005
    I agree but writing off players early as in Nelson Oliveira, Danilo Pareira, Mika is a mistake especially when it comes to temperamental portuguese players, they may grow up.
     
  19. GoodDead

    GoodDead Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2004
    Toronto Canada
    Club:
    Sporting Braga
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I'm not writing those guys off but they all need to show something in their club teams. Nelson I believe is done because his ego is out of control and he has shown zero humility. When he has been given chances to play for Portugal he has flopped.

    And history has shown young Portuguese players with promise that blow it never really grow up (Quaresma)

    I'm all for guys getting a shot but I am talking more to the guys on the current team, they do not deserve to wear that awkward nike jersey.
     
  20. RedBullSeven

    RedBullSeven Member+

    Apr 28, 2012
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    What is wrong with the nike jerseys? They look pretty cool, IMO
     
  21. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Okay, list them.
     
  22. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Yeah, not sure who he's referring to specifically. Not to mention, we're Portugal. Our country kinda has a history of African players themselves (past and present). Hm, I coulda sworn one was our best of all time actually...
     
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  23. dipluso

    dipluso Member+

    Jul 19, 2005
    CT
    Ahah - burn!!
     
  24. doritos93

    doritos93 Member

    Jun 10, 2010
    Montreal - Europe
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    The Special One doesn't talk shit, if he wants to, he will be here to defend his point
     
  25. The Special One

    The Special One Member+

    Aug 6, 2005
    I never criticised their techniques, Croatia, Greece Serbia Turkey holland and the biggest culprit France have been doing it for ages and I personally think a strong Belgium is really good for Europe as a lot of other formerly strong European nations eg England are falling by the wayside.

    The revolution of football started for them in 1998 largely thanks to Michel Sablon and it focused more on player development rather than competition. They focused also on the one on one situation and you can see how their wingers resemble that of portuguese wingers which is great to watch. Anderlecht have got a program called the purple talents which resembles what sporting do at alcochete, there's an area is liege called Droihxe or something like that I went their 18 months ago, it's a large immigrant population and it where players like Witsel, Benteke and Bakkali and clubs are treating this like a amine site with pretty good success. Their street footballers and it reminds me of the seedier neighbourhoods of Lisbon where some of our most aesthetically pleasing players have emerged from.

    What is a problem and we have been experiencing this for over a decade is, what happens when your best young players get cherry picked by big clubs from your academies. Ill tell you what happens, they generally fade into obscurity and Belgium is the flavour of the month so this is happening to a lot of their top young talent, some of the players in the current National team benefited from playing in an average league learning to be professional footballers for a couple of years and then moving on to bigger and better things as well rounded professionals, look no further than our own William Carvalho.
     
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