No I have just mellowed after time, we had awesome success with him, we won the bloody champions league with the guy so come on, some leniency is warranted I think. So yes, to an extent I can look past his treacherous ways. One day I will stop disliking Mario too.
Some leniency is warranted in your opinion. That's all it is. Your opinion. You're entitled to it. I'm entitled to mine. I'm sorry, as far as the CL win goes, there's no one act that forgives everything else a person does. And yes, I realize this is just my opinion. For me, none of that is stronger than joining our top rivals and not only helping them nearly make us irrelevant, but making it clear that as far as he was concerned, he didn't give a flying fuck about us and declaring himself 100% Bayern. So because of the nice times we had, I'm supposed to forget the attacks on us which were much more recent than the good times? Maybe this makes perfect sense to you. It does not to me. Mother fuck him and the horse he's riding out on. As far as MG goes, I at least understand why he left. I only hate the fact he left. However, he at least keeps his mouth shut about us. So far.......... With Hitzfeld, it wasn't just his leaving. It was what he said and did after he left. I'm sorry, but for me, the "good old days" just don't make up for the fact that he basically renounced them himself. You can tell yourself what you like. I don't forgive a mother fucker for basically renouncing the fact he was ever with our club.
Hmmm I dont remember him really renouncing that he was at our club. If he did this explicitly, then sure I agree with you. I mean I totally understand where you are coming from anyway. And it was pretty douchey of him to go to bayern and be dismissive of dortmund, that is something I cant see Klopp ever doing, I think unlike hitzfeld, he is dortmund all the way. Not at all, you can hold what ever opinions you like man. Likewise, him being an arrogant mouthey dick doesnt and shouldnt invalidate all the success that he had with us and the fact that one should be able to recognise that and say thanks. It is possible to like someone and still acknowledge their short falls. I loved Andy Moeller the player minus the diving, but he was a dick. Same with Mathaeus who is possibly one of the biggest dicks ever in german football and with the likes of Basler and Effenberg thats saying something. And the Dortmund management did a fine job by themselves almost making us irrelevant. So how about an amendment then, "Thanks Hitzfeld...shame you were such a dick though to the club that made you"
Even if Klopp leaves one day, which I think he eventually will do for the Germany job, it is cool. So long as he doesn't turn on us the way Hitzfeld did. I didn't expect Hitzfeld to declare undying love for us. But that SOB disrespected us time and time again. I guess to endear himself to his new masters. I honestly don't give a shit what for. I called Hitzfeld a coward long ago and always stuck by it. The "coward" part was for not taking the Germany job. The last job he ever took where there was any real risk involved was his job with us. Then that shit about his Bayern titles being his "greatest accomplishments?" Really? Really? And who are you to make this declaration? You can feel this way. It does not mean I have to. Espeically as it seems I have more information on the scumbag shit Hitzfeld said and did. I love Andreas Möller to this day. Yes, he was a diving, prima donna, prick. But he was our diving, prima donna, prick. And even after joining our worst rivals (which I blame the club and Sammer for to this day), you know what he never did? He never disrespected or shit on his time at Dortmund. He never turned on us the way Hitzfeld did. As much as I hate Sammer for joining Bayern, he's never said the shit Hitzfeld did about Dortmund. Not yet anyhow....... Truth. I left out the word "helped." I prefer this: "Dear Ottmar. Once upon a time, you walked away and publicly told anyone who would listen that you were 100% Bayern. You took shots at us every chance you got and clearly showed you cared far more about endearing yourself to assholes like UH, KHR, and Der Kaiser more than standing up for your own record in Dortmund. Even after they kicked you to the curb for the cardinal sin of not being able to get Princess Poldi to play up to her potential, you still talked up those assholes. But hey, thanks for those good times you made clear meant nothing to you anymore. Sorry that it is hard to remember your part in most of it. You know, since you made it clear everything you accomplished at Bayern was far more important to you. Mother fuck you and the horse you're riding out on. Don't let the door hit you in your cowardly ass on the way out. See you at the Allianz Arena bitch........" I hope this makes it clear........
With that being said, just now seeing Lewa in his little red and blue outfit talking about becoming a better player and winning titles.....******** you Lewy, what you won bugger all at dortmund? Seeing kagawa, sahin and goetze stagnate and you talk about becoming a better player? ******** you man. Whether implicit or explicit, still the same message. Big fat whore
Everybody has reasons to hate a player/coach more. That's why nothing is as sweet as watching these players rot on the bench, every single one of them, especially Gotze. As an Argentina fan, it was sweet having my team end Hitzfield's coaching career.
Who cares. Players do what they want to do. For me he's history. But I can't remember a single ex BVB player who has progressed...
I'm pretty sure he meant more recently than Lehmann. Lehmann left town four years before the new regime (Watzke, and later Klopp) took over. I didn't include Zorc in the "new regime" thing because Zorc was part of the "old regime" too. If we're talking since the new regime took over, I have to largely agree with BVB1989 . I can only think of one player who was significantly more successful after leaving us. And he left after Watzke took over, but never played for Klopp. Steven Pienaar
Watching how much Goetze has regressed is simply incredible. He was an absolute livewire with this team.... an incredible creative talent. At Bayern he just looks lost......
He's from South Africa. Doesn't count . And while he was successful compared to himself, he wasn't all that on an absolute scale. I think our coaching team is just exceptional. They do things differently and bring out the best in players a certain way that cannot be repeated or mimicked.
Everybody at Dortmund work incredibly hard to develop chemistry. Gotze was no exception. JK spends a lot of time with the individual players themselves trying to understand their psyche, strengths and weaknesses. He is able to find out what motivates them and what doesn't and uses that to the advantage of the collective. Nobody is treated differently. Pep doesn't do that. He is authoritarian...just like his predecessors and coaches were at Barcelona. It's no wonder that he was so successful at Barcelona. Everybody bowed to him and if they didn't, they were sold. Luckily for him, the players he had were exceptionally talented. At Bayern he has Mathaus Sammer to back his authoritarian ways. If Germany win the world cup with half the team first XI from that despicable club, they're going to suck next year.
Gotze at BvB had the freedom to do what he wants and he is still guaranteed of a starting spot next weekend Last season at Bayern player freedom was limited and they have to comply to a laid down formation. Also he had a lot of competition for his spots, the mistakes or laziness he would get away with at BvB because he is the darling son, he would get benched at Bayern for it. Competition with Kroos, Muller, Robben, Ribery for spots probably took his confidence. He isnt a player who battles like Robben or Muller
Good post! In 2012-13, we conceded a lot of goals because Gotze was lazy defending further up the pitch and Reus was still getting used to our way of playing. If Kuba didn't chase down the opposition ball-player in deep, nobody did even though that was Gotze's job. The thing about Gotze is that he's still very young. The positive here is that there's time for him to develop. The negative is that if he doesn't develop now, he's never going to be able to be the player the world expected him to be. When he left, in the press conf. Jurgen Klopp wished that the players would have some patience. If Gotze wanted to make a piss (pun intended) load of money, he should have just waited. I am confident that the 2012-13 team was good enough to challenge for the CL last year. I mean think how far we went despite the injuries and round-hole-square-peg players in Miki and Auba.
Spot on but whats your beef with Mkhitaryan ? Hes solid and i think will be better this season. We overpaid by 7 mill or so, 20 ws enough, Auba was a decent value purchase. Not a starter but a nice bench player. I wish we still had Santana and Perisic. They were good fits! Of course Kagawa too but all stars seek an exit, always. Kagawa Lewandowski ant Gitze all cunts! Sahin failed when he left, as did Kagawa, Gotze, what of Robert?
Our attacking midfield trio was a fantastic combination. Gotze was the playmaker who could drift wide. Reus was the direct player who could cut inside. Those 2 interchanged while Kuba offered width and dropped deeper to support the base of the midfield. Miki offers direct play and a goal threat from deep which we really don't need. I mean somebody has to foil deep defences and offer incisive passing and he doesn't do that. But this situation isn't going to change so there's no point in getting worked up.
I strongly believe we will see a different Miki this season...... but perhaps I'm just being optimistic. I'm a fan of players who work hard and are willing to learn, two traits I believe Miki has. He knows full well he didn't play to expectations. I think last year we saw too many situations where he was second guessing himself, and delaying that decisive pass......
The comment I was replying to said the person couldn't think of ex-BVB players who had left and PROGRESSED! It wasn't whether he met your criteria for "successful" or whether he was "all that." Sometimes you just need to STFU and leave shit alone when you have nothing sensible to add.
The Mario Gotze disagreement still bothering you? I understand that your e-penis is massive on here. You've got contacts who are close to the club and you've been a fan of Dortmund for a long time so you know the ins and outs of youth system and potential transfers not to mention business practices. But you are completely incapable of thinking outside the box. When your belief system is challenged, the challenger is a complete idiot in your books instead of you yourself. No wonder you get an aneurysm because of newcomers on this forum. Why is it just you who can have the inside scoop on the club and its players? Why can't others? When you claim to be shocked by the Mario Gotze transfer to Bayern only to do a 180 a few months later because you knew he was a Bayern fan, your reputation gets squashed. Don't bother trying to explain your way out of this one. My comment was about Pienaar (somebody barely anybody outside of SA gives a flying F about) and it was in jest. You mouth off utter non-sense about clubs in other leagues. Sometimes I have to check to make sure it's not another visitor from goal.com.
My starting 11 against Liverpool and for the first game of the season without Reus would be: Roman, Durm, Socratis, Hummels, Piszczek, Sahin, Jojic, Miki, Cuba, Auba, Ramos.
Hummels looked awfully exhausted yesterday and he had some minor health problems. I hope he'll be available but he might need an extended break from now on. And who knows, if we sign Ginter, we might be able grant him this. We should not repeat the mistake of 2012 when Hummels needed a break after the EC but we could not afford to rest him.