23 Tickets to Brazil

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by flem16, May 18, 2011.

  1. jaxonmills

    jaxonmills Member+

    Aug 26, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On a personal level, kudos to Klinsmann for sticking to his philosophy and having the stones to cut Donovan and deal with all of the blowback he has inevitably gotten. I mean, wow, the guy is totally fearless, and what a free-thinker he is.

    On a soccer level, I believe the result of Klinsmann's strict adherence to his principles is that the best possible U.S. team will not be in Brazil.

    Klinsmann: respect the man, hate the manager. Well not hate, but I wish we had someone better.

    Nevertheless, I support our team 100% and can't wait for the cup to start. While I don't think he's optimizing the allocation of available resources, if you will, I do think the team is good enough to make some noise if they play to the best of their abilities.
     
  2. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Don't get me wrong--I would have LD on my squad right now. But Klinsmann kept him off for a reason. If it does turn out to be what the poster hinted at, and in the end we make a great WC run, it won't hurt as much.
     
  3. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a BS reason then. Look, JK's move may work beautifully (more likely the USMNT will fail as it likely would have done with LD on the squad), but that won't make this explanation any less BS.
     
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  4. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    No doubt. But if he gets his results, I think it won't be a big deal.

    I think it sucks...but if having Landon on the bench would hurt whatever gamelpan JK's working on...so be it.

    If we fail at the WC miserably , I think JK falls on the sword (many have disagreed with me on this).
     
  5. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, it's already done and it is not going to change, so I guess it's already not a big deal.
     
  6. UxSxAxfooty

    UxSxAxfooty Member+

    Jan 23, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That Klinsmann's stated reasons for Donovan's exclusion don't add up to a lot doesn't indicate that he actually lacks reasons that at least make sense in his own mind. It may just mean he doesn't want to mention them publicly right now.

    If those reasons are things like Donovan is out of shape, Donovan no longer has the stamina to play midfield, Donovan is a jackass in the locker room, Donovan refused to push himself this offseason and has been pacing himself, I can't trust Donovan, or whatever, then Klinsmann is simply wise not to give those reasons publicly right now.

    In a twisted way, he's trying to take the high road with his "little bit ahead" justification. I think it's naive to expect Klinsmann to give a good reason (if such a reason does exist) at this time (please note I'm not saying it's naive to expect him to have a good reason).
     
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  7. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What was the pedigree of most of those guys though? A recent starter for an MLS team? A player from the German 4th division with 3 minutes of first team experience? A young CB who has impressed a little bit but is unbelievably inconsistent?
    I'm not sure its the same. If there had been lots of guys gunning for Landon's place and clearly showing that they can do better than him then I'd be okay with the choice. Given that isn't true in the cases of Green, Wondo, or Davis I just don't see the move making sense. Brooks and Yedlin are head-scratchers for me too. Especially given the overall youth and lack of WC experience of the roster.
    Heck even if you just look at how many overall caps this roster has going into the cup, it has to be far below 2010 and 2006. I don't remember the overall makeup of 2002 and 1998 enough to make comparisons.
    In all of those ways, this team is different from Germany in 2006.
     
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  8. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

    Apr 5, 2012
    Higher than you
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #6758 COMtnGuy, May 29, 2014
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
    Come on, you already know the answer to that one, it's frick'n Germany post 1990's! ;) I was mearly pointing the reaction to the 23 list. Edit: Trust me at the time a German making team under 27 was the same as under 21 making USA roster now.

    But were getting there, seems like there is a light at end of tunnel now.

    Personally I care less about the kids making the 23, than one trick pony Davis over LD.
     
  9. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Same here. I would have him on my squad but I'm not really worried in leaving him off. He's not 2010 or 2013 Donovan right now. The main team has barely played with him anyway. If he had carried us through the qualifiers like he used to do I would be more worried.
     
  10. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    TBH that is not exactly a very high bar. As to the success in the EPL it would be more accurate he was a flash in the pan a couple of times. He is still a good player too, when he can be arsed. When he is pissed like he was at Philly he has always been able to play great.

    We had to move on sooner or later, we will see if the decision costs JK his job or not!! I would be suprised though if this decision changed very many people who liked JK to not liking him now or vice versa, it just seemed to have further entrenched the sides and made those who do not like him even more hysterical.
     
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  11. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Not really. This was a needle-mover. While originally skeptical, I've supported Klinsmann up to now, particularly all of last year. At this point, with the way he's handled not only this cut but the preparation as a whole, my support has very quickly worn thin, and cast his past into serious doubt. If we do not fare well (and I'm not drawing the line at advancement, though he himself says that he should be judged on results) then I feel he needs to be shown the door. Seeds of discontentment have been sewn here such that an unsuccessful manager cannot stay.
     
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  12. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Same for me, pretty much exactly.
     
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The only door Klinsi will be shown his the door of the vault where US Soccer stores their money. They gave him a 4 year extension on his contract as soon as the draw was known and it was safe to do so. US Soccer will keep Klinsi as long as the gate money continues rolling in which it will. Those people who think "results" in the WC are at issue are wrong. They might have been had we drawn an easier group. It would have been too risky to extend Klinsmann 4 years before knowing the results. When that was not an issue any longer, US Soccer did what was easy for US Soccer. Nor is there the slightest effort made by US Soccer to develop the domestic game but that's a longer and more serious story for another time altho it accounts for much of the preparation malaise that you apparently deplore.
     
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  14. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep... those were rhetorical questions showing how the comparisson isn't really that relevant. If JK is using 2006 as his guide, I think decisions based on success there are not very relevant to the US 2014.
    I generally agree about Davis. Opponents will push him outside his comfort zone and I doubt he'll have much. Although in the other night's game he was one of the better attackers. Definitely better than Bedoya or Zusi the other night. I'm not sure it'll translate well to Brazil.
     
  15. aarond23

    aarond23 Member+

    Feb 24, 2006
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What we learned about Davis in this game? If he played in the Azerbijan league, he'd be a living legend like Messi :)
     
  16. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    Ditto. Big Klinsmann supporter up to the day of the Donovan cut. Now I'm sharpening my knife.
     
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  17. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My main point was that he looked a lot better than the other outside midfielders and all other attackers save perhaps Johannsson and Mix (although I may be a little clouded by the fact that those two scored).
    I'm not a Davis fan, but he made the starters look bad or average at best.
     
  18. aarond23

    aarond23 Member+

    Feb 24, 2006
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes agree I'm just kidding :) the game was just your average lack of the USA to break down a bunker, we've seen that a few times before. By the time Davis, Mix, AJ came on the AZE players finally got tired and the holes started to open up.
     
  19. Heist

    Heist Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. It reminded me of lots of games in qualifying and some of the Gold Cup. Keep working a team until the second half and then score as they get tired. Azerbijan was at a similar level and similar tactics, neither of which will we see in Brazil.
     
  20. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Well, according to the new contract, Klinsmann is not just coach of the NT, but also a "Technical Director for U.S. Soccer."

    What that means is that he will have input in roster choices for the U17, U20 and U23 teams. He will have extended influence, since his charge matches that of April Heinrichs for the women, and she not only has control over the youth teams, but also works on setting up policy and writing the documents establishing goals, strategies of development, and prospects at the level of academies and clubs.

    In US Soccer, a technical director writes a lot and talks a lot. I have a feeling Jürgen will fit into those jobs like a glove.

    However, in the case of April at least, she's only the coach of the U18, leaving the other teams to other coaches. The coach for the USWNT is Jill Ellis. And even if both talk to each other all the time, Ellis is fairly independent from April, and she has the final word in things as roster selection for the senior team. And Ellis is also a "Women's Youth Development Director" --so both women sort of keep tabs on each other.

    It's not out of the question that, were Jürgen to underperform in Brazil, he'd be "kicked up," keeping his director charge, and taking full control over one of the U** teams, while someone else is brought to be coach of the senior team.
     
  21. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    So you're saying that Sunil fired Bradley because we weren't making enough in gate receipts?
     
  22. dwsmith1972

    dwsmith1972 BigSoccer Supporter

    May 11, 2007
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG] Stealing this gif from @Chance in the post game thread because I think it belongs in the 23 thread. Though it is just a single moment, I find the gif particularly interesting inasmuch as I think that at least in parts of BS USMNT N&A and the minds of some posters, Brooks and Davis reside in different narratives.*

    [​IMG]
    *Young, talented but as yet unproven Euro-based player and old, seasoned, hard workin-but- solid MLS lifer Davis.

    http://giant.gfycat.com/PiercingSolidBronco.gif
    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...ostgame-thread-r.2005341/page-3#post-30244316
     
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  23. huckleberry123333

    Jul 17, 2013
    orcrist repped this.
  24. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Lov'n the hate! Can you guys just give Davis a little credit. He is the guy on the roster that was involved in both goals.

    He should of had a PK called against him.
    It was his cross that eventually fell to Mix's foot for the first goal.
    It was his run of play cross that set up AJ's corner kick goal.
    It was his cross from the corner that lead to AJ's goal.
    ...and he set up other goal scoring opportunities. (There was some bad finishing in this game)

    Green did not get the assist
    Yedlin did not get the assist
    Chanlder did not get the assist
    Like it or not, but it was Davis that found the wholes in the Azerbaijan bus not the "kids".
     
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  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    "Dude, the camera is focusing my ears!"
    "You look wie ein Kobold!"
    "Hahahaha..."
     
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