New York Cosmos - All Time Honors List

Discussion in 'New York Cosmos' started by Onionsack, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There has been some debate recently concerning how many honors the New York Cosmos have earned in their lifetime as a professional outdoor soccer team. By my count they have seventeen (17) which would place them at the top in the history of soccer in the United States. Meaning we can lay claim to the title "most decorated pro soccer club in US history".

    Soccer Bowl Cups: (6) 1972, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1982, 2013
    Season Titles (8) 1972, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 2013(Fall)
    Trans-Atlantic Cups (3) 1980, 1983, 1984

    This year will be the first year the club has ever competed in the USOC. They have 2 seasons titles to play for, a soccer bowl and the USOC. Could have twenty-one 21 by end of 2014 if everything goes right.
     
  2. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    inb4 "F.Cosmos" and "they only won the championship last year" and "*"
     
  3. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trans-Atlantic Challenge Cup?

    Really?

    To each its own I guess.
     
  4. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bethlehem Steel won 9 league championships, 6 American Cups, 5 National Challenge Cups (what is now the US Open Cup), and 1 Lewis Cup (ASL League Cup). 18 of those (all but 2 league championships and 1 American Cup) came after the team became professional in 1914.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem_Steel_F.C.
     
  5. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe that ALAFC league title in 14/15 was actually an amateur league title. They didn't join a pro league until 15/16 in the American Soccer League of Philadelphia. Best team ever if we count all their honors both pro and amateur, never any doubt about that.
     
  6. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow, yeah ... if he's counting that as an "honor" .... then he doesn't have an argument for "most honored" club.
     
  7. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not, it was a sanctioned annual cup competition between NASL and major European teams and at the time was a pretty big deal. At worst its on par with SuperLiga from a few years ago between MLS and FMF sides...MLS teams that won count it as an honor, and rightfully so.

    You can quibble about it if you want (along with dozens of other honors and titles in US club soccer over the years), i wont stop you, but at the end of the day it was an honor won by the club.
     
  8. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a huge difference between a friendly tournament (the Trans Atlantic Challenge Cup) and an actual International competition (SuperLiga). The TAC is more like the WFC, it was a Cosmos invitational tourney.

    Who sanctioned the TAC ? NASL ?

    FMF, USSF, CSA, and CONCACAF sanctioned and recognized SuperLiga. It was a secondary tournament to the ConcaCup like the Euro is to CL.

    Not at all the same thing. Not even close.

    That's different than your take in the other discussion about this very topic.
     
  9. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for your opinion, but for purposes of all time club honors won, we are sticking with the 17 listed here.

    The Superliga was a friendly tournament between two local associations, excluding competition to other non affiliated or invited clubs, all games were played in the USA and most MLS sides didn't even have to play an "away" game, FMF sides played all games away from home and the winner just got a trophy and bragging rights and some prize money.The similarities between it and the old Trans Atlantic Challenge Cup are far more similat than they are different.
     
  10. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL ... and in other threads the definition changes to shoehorn your opinion ?

    If you're going with the 17 listed here, you need to backtrack on your "most decorated" stance.

    No, it wasn't.

    The SuperLiga was an official competition between the MLS and FMF. It was the sub-regional championship just like the Copa Interclubes and CFU Club Championship. You actually had to qualify for the tournament.

    Holy shit are you wrong.
     
  11. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL, really man..i remember SuperLiga very well and the pages and pages of arguments about it from 2007. First off Mexican teams didn't really qualify for it, they were invited and a few declined to go leaving their association to pick other teams to go. Second, it wasn't a CONCACAF event, it was actually created by the two leagues (MLS mostly) for the purpose of making money and capitalizing on the USA MEX rivalries. The CONCACAF Champions Cup at the time was just a couple rounds in early spring and a late spring final, 8 teams total.

    It was a glorified friendly tournament with a competition structure so ridiculous that no fans outside MLS ever gave it any real legitimacy at all. There is nothing wrong with that, there were some really good matches, and you still had to win it and earn the honor of winning it.

    Lets not make SuperLiga some major regional competition here in revisionist history. It was what is was, just as the TAC was what it was.
     
  12. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    17, 14, whatever, doesn't matter. Give us 10 or 20 years, we'll be officially at the top.
     
  13. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You apparently have a selective memory. 2007 was the only year they were invited (as were the MLS clubs). 08-10 both MLS and Liga MX clubs qualified for the tournament. The "best 4" MLS clubs not in the CCL competition, and then the winners of the Liga MX semi-annual tournaments qualified for the tournament. It was sanctioned by the regional FIFA body, and three national governing bodies.

    ^ Those are facts ... regardless of how strongly you feel about your opinions, they don't trump facts.

    For as (in your words) "ridiculous" as it was, it forced the CCL to change. That was part of the intent on creating it in the first place. Seems CONCACAF gave it enough legitimacy ...

    Pachuca has the trophy right along with everything other "main" trophy on the main page of their site (where they don't display their "friendly" or non official trophies): http://tuzos.com.mx/a13/

    Morelia ? Take a gander at their history page: http://www.fuerzamonarca.com/historia/

    Page 11 of UNAL's official media guide lists their official titles: http://www.tigres.com.mx/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Guia-de-Medios-2014-FINAL.pdf


    I'll take the club histories and CONCACAF's sanctioning over opinions.


    Oh hey look, someone without a thick skull ... yay !
     
  14. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...a-why-the-sl-will-stick-around.1149757/page-7

    Go back and read up. Mexican teams routinely declined to go play in this when invited. This thread isn't even about SuperLiga, so please keep it on topic.

    At this point you are really just derailing the thread and based on your last sentence trolling on the Cosmos forum.
     
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but the Superliga was also not a big deal and I would not count that as an important honor for any team, I doubt any Liga MX teams puts that up as an important honor.

    Not at all, the Atlantic Cup, the Superliga and the WFC are all the same, just friendly tournaments.

    I would not count them any more than I would the Carolina Cup pre season tournament that the Battery holds every year.
     
  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Both of you are wrong, the SuperLiga should not count as an official tournament because it was not, Concacaf gave the ok, but it was never a secondary tournament to the Concacaf Cup, just a money grab by SUM (and it was fun, I liked it while it lasted).

    But hey if the Revolution want to recognize that as a "honor" they can do it, just like the Cosmos can recognize any friendly tournament as an honor, it is up to them, I will just LOL when they list them as official honors.
     
  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do see Pachuca listing it under International, and not under "other".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.F._Pachuca#Honours

    But if you look at the stars on the Uniform, they do not have a star for SuperLiga, they have 4 for the Concacaf Championship and 1 for Copa SudAmericana.

    I think people in Mexico would laugh at them if they put up a star for the SuperLiga.

    Morelia and Tigres also has International

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarcas_Morelia#Honours

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigres_de_la_UANL#International


    So HailtotheKing seems to be right on this one.
     
  18. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *sigh*

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...s-all-time-honors-list.2002073/#post-29816656

    It's literally right above you. ^^^^

    It was the sub-regional tournament just like they have in Central America and the Caribbean. It was absolutely official. CONCACAF and the respective governing bodies in North America sanctioned the freaking thing. Not "gave it the ok" ... but sanctioned it.

    It wasn't just a friendly tournament or money grab la the WFC ... it was actually designed, in part to address the structure of the CCup.


    Holy hell, how can people argue against actual facts ?
     
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I do give you the advantage in the post above, I see no Canadian team got to play on it (and there were Canadian lower D clubs at the time), so not much of a regional tournament when 1 of the 3 countries is not part of the tournament.

    So yes it seems to be more than just a friendly tournament, so is official I guess.

    Not important to get a star on a jersey, but important enough to be above "other" on the list (like Copa Mexico for most Liga MX teams, that does not get a star).
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Hail is right, as crazy as it seems, Concacaf did give its blessing it seem, that makes it an official tournament.

    If you can show that the Atlantic Cup had Concacaf and/or UEFA sanctioning, then I would take back my LOL about counting it as an honor.
     
  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    oh shit, you know what is LOLfic, Tigres of Liga MX counts Interliga as an official honor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigres_de_la_UANL#Domestic_League

    No mamen, that was a tournament to qualify to copa Libertadores, that was a bigger money grab than Superliga.

    Monterrey also does.

    fvck it if Mexican clubs want to claim Interliga as an official honor, then the Cosmos should be able to claim this Atlantic cup thing as an honor.

    Man that would mean the redbulls can also claim that Emirates cup thing they won as an honor? that would suck.
     
  22. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So...it summarize:

    New York Cosmos can claim 17 official honors as a professional football club listed in the first post.

    As far as I am concerned based on what i've seen i would place that in a tie for the most earned ever by a professional soccer club in the USA. Some folks will want to disagree or claim some honors are not as important as others, etc but since we have such a wide cross over of leagues, formats and competitions in 100 years of soccer in the USA its all going tot the a mishmash.

    We've also established that HailtotheKing doesn't like the fact we are claiming 17...his club has 1...which is the same amount Red Bull have in like 18 years...in a 5th of the time. You can get there some day too.
     
  23. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whether you consider it noteworthy or not, yes the Red Bulls do in fact claim that as an honor won, same as La Manga Cup in 2004. Its in their trophy case and they do claim it. Is it as significant as an MLS Cup or USOC? No..but this isn't about what is the most significant. I am sure MLS fans could claim conference titles, i wouldn't unless it was awarded for winning the league itself or tournament..but i guess they could if they wanted to.

    I really don't care about them though, this is a Cosmos forum talking about our clubs own trophy history.
     
  24. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I said, you are free to do so, especially in your forum.

    My apologies.
     
  25. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're wrong and hypocritical.

    ... and here we go. Going by the standard you've set ...

    The Galaxy are in a range anywhere from 19 to 41.
    DCU are in a range anywhere from 19 to 31
    The Sounders are at 29
    The Dynamo are at 19
    The Earthquakes are at 19
    The Fire are at 18
    FCD are at 18

    ... and that's just looking through MLS clubs.

    How many does NYRB have again ? I mean, by your measure of "honors" won that is ....

    and we've got 1 in 2 seasons. That's .5 trophies per seasons of existence. Much, much better than the 17 you're claiming in the 44 years of "existence" for a .38 per season. We're much more prolific. At this rate we'll be sitting at 22 honors at 44 years.

    :ninja:

    This is the problem though ... you clearly claim that type of "honor" for your Cosmos ... but you discount it for other clubs in order to fit your narrative. Choose a stance. Either they're all "honors" or they're not.
     

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