What can be done to revive interest in the Rhinos?

Discussion in 'Rochester Rhinos' started by RobtheAggie, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know that this has been asked, but the Rhinos need something big to change to recapture a little bit of the magic of the late 1990s.

    I know the soccer landscape has changed since then, so has the Rochester area, but is there any hope for the Rhinos?

    The new coach should help, but how does the management reignite the fan base? Winning helps, but so does a decent team.

    How is the Youth Academy going? When I was in the Rochester area, the Jr Rhinos were the strongest youth club in Rochester.
     
  2. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Judging from the lack responses, is there simply a lack of interest anymore? The official website is updated, but most of the information is non Rhino related. There is some stuff of JC Banks, but nothing about new players, etc.

    Has the quality of players dropped so much that the Rochester fans, where were used to the winning ways, and a good group of players, abandoned the club?
     
  3. Max F.

    Max F. Member

    May 25, 2012
    Syracuse, New York
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Rhino fanbase doesn't seem to be tech savvy. not sure if they even know about this site existance.

    For example, the Rochester Lancers (MISL squad) garners limited support on here.

    A gauge of interest is hard to get on this particular board.
     
  4. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the closing of the www.rhinopit.com, there does not seem to be an official discussion forum. I wonder if it would be possible to have this forum be linked to the official Rhino website? At least it could generate a little more interest.

    I guess it is a little frustrating that there is nothing about the current squad, except JC Banks, on the website. Who is even still under contract?

    I guess I am still nolstalgic about the good old days of the 1990s.
     
  5. Max F.

    Max F. Member

    May 25, 2012
    Syracuse, New York
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    As the only non MLS team to win the Us Open cup (since MLS creation)- the 90s are far gone.

    As far as support, I know the American Outlaw Chapter actively meets with the front office to try and create the supporter culture of other cities. But its a few years too late IMO. We'll see what this year brings.

    Are they still affiliated with the Revs?
     
  6. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, there still is an affiliation with the Revs. I understand that 4 Revs will be sent to the Rhinos. I am not positive about the particulars, but I would assume that the 4 can change depending on needs of the Revs, but that there will always be 4. Someone might be able to explain this a little better than I.

    Lets hope for a few things. The past two seasons seem to have been ones where they could never get the fan interest due to poor results, poor makeup of the team, etc. I hope that they have a good 1st road trip, which they always seem to start the season on the road, and carry that momentum forward into the long homestand.

    I know that in lots of ways, it is no longer the 90s, but Rochester fans will come out to see a good team. I think that has really been lacking the past few seasons. Just look at the year by year attendance here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester_Rhinos

    I know that most teams would love a north of 5k average attendance, but look how far is has dropped. I hope that this is the year that the trend reverses.
     
  7. soccerFrank

    soccerFrank Member

    Dec 11, 2011
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Rob,
    You could check out www.rocsoccer.com

    Thats the newest local forum dedicated to soccer in ROC....as for the dwindling interest in the Rhino's , I've mentioned it before on this site, so I won't repeat it.
    As for the 5k average attendance, well, take that with a grain of salt. Its far less then that unfortunately, and most likely will drop this year again even further. The Rhino's don't seem to awake until 3 weeks before the opening game, other then send out season ticket "renewal prices" to the 300 or 400 diehards in the community and calling people who are in charge of area youth leagues 3 days before opening game to distribute thousands of free tickets ( I know a couple guys that are in charge of the suburban leagues that get those calls yearly).
    Its no surprise of the lack of community support and interest.
     
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  8. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is there a dedicated front office ticket person? Or are people wearing multiple hats, specifically in regards to marketing and ticket sales? As I said, it has been a while since I have lived in Rochester. I have tried to follow them as best as possible.

    I guess the question soccerFrank is have they hit bottom yet, or is there something lower than last season? Last year's team was hard to watch at times. I hope that they can not be worse than that.
     
  9. soccerFrank

    soccerFrank Member

    Dec 11, 2011
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    I believe they have 1.5-2 people selling tickets. ......wearing multiple hats. The decision they made a few years ago really turned alot of fans off (not just me), hence the little marketing this organization seems to muster up goes undetected.
    Hey, if they are happy and believe they are heading in the right direction , thats great, I'm happy for them. It just goes counter to what you'll hear from the average casual or hardcore fan. a few years back I stopped buying extra packs of tickets to give away to my customers who were soccer families..... they just didn't want them like years ago.

    I don't purchase extra tix for the Lancers either because all kids under 12yrs get in free (limit 3 kids to one adult)...heck, the Lancers have kiosks in area malls where they have free vouchers laying all over the shelf/table, and they seem to struggle with getting people to actually pay since so many freebies are to be had around town.
    Rob, I'm just giving you an honest view of whats happening on the local pro soccer scene, not trying to bash either team.
     
  10. rochesterian80

    Mar 28, 2013
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    While I don't doubt the Lancers are papering the town, the vouchers (at least around the holidays) at the malls said "Free Ticket" in big letters, but if you read the fine print it's a buy one, get one offer.

    The Lancers and Rhinos are both frustrating, but for very different reasons. There is a lot of Lancers marketing, but the team continues to be noncompetitive against the playoff teams, and I don't get the sense they know what they're doing on the field.

    Despite last season's rare on-field struggles, I have faith in Lilley and Ercoli to continue to win their share of games with the Rhinos. The early signings look decent. But the marketing and buzz is lacking. For the Rhinos, it will come down to playing better soccer, but also reconnecting with the community and generating buzz. I don't know if current ownership will give them the marketing dollars to do that.
     
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  11. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for being honest. It has been a while since I have been around the scene. I was back a few years ago for Christmas and watch two Lancer matches. One was on free tickets from one of my parents friends, the other was with my sons as I purchased the adult ticket and took along three for free. I do not want to debate the pro's and con's of this policy, but it does seem that the Rhinos do not market themselves as well as the Lancers.
     
  12. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good points, one has the marking product down, while the other has the better on-field product. It kind of reminds me of the ABL vs WNBA. The ABL had better players but the WNBA had the money and marketing power of the NBA.
     
  13. soccerFrank

    soccerFrank Member

    Dec 11, 2011
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Rob,
    A year or two ago Leo Roth of the D&C had an article on actual paid attendance at a Lancer game according to the City of Rochester records......it was just under 1k....probably fewer now I would suspect. Sam disputed it saying they averaged 5800k or something like that. Feel free to check the D&C's archives or Leo's article. I had season tix the first year and haven't had them since people I know give them to me, most are sponsors. I had no problem paying for them, but it seemed like I was the only one actually paying for tix back then, so I figured just take the comps like my other friends and buy a few beverages or food at the game to support somehow.
    I think at least for the Lancers, between the team not playing well since the first season, and in general the indoor game losing its "new sport appeal" its just a tough sport to attract fans . Kenn Tomasch has commented on the indoor game, and I fully agree with his viewpoints. The Lancers can market themselves all over town, but in the end, if the fans don't show and actually pay, that will tell you something about the sport or product. Syracuse is having a hard time drawing too from what I've heard also. I do give the Lancers big props for making their brand known in the metro area. No doubt they try to be everywhere possible. The Rhinos are the Rhinos and have put themselves in that position. I won't be a "white knight" for them . At this point, its gonna take alot of work and big changes to turn the Rhinos around, winning or not. The team is being run by an "out of town bank" as Rochesterian80 once said.
     
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  14. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SoccerFrank, thanks for the great response. I wonder how much the loss of local teams has hurt the Rhinos. Playing the Lynx, Impact, and even the Salt Dogs were matches that were going to draw big crowds, expecially Montreal. I wonder if that has had any impace.

    Who actually owns the club? I have spent quite a bit of time trying to research that. Is Rob Clark actually calling shots or is it a bank? I guess as I try and wrap my head around this problem, am I lacking lots of information.

    I really appreciate all of the answers. They are very enlightening.

    By the way, is there a way to get to Devo's Direct Kicks without subscribing to the D&C?
     
  15. rochesterian80

    Mar 28, 2013
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Two points. On the Lancers, they do get a lot more butts in the seats once January begins. The last Syracuse crowd was pretty good in reality. The opening crowd was pretty good. The crowds in between were sparse despite what may have been announced. The same thing happened last year. Unfortunately, the problem at the Blue Cross Arena is they'll always struggle for prime dates. The reason they can get weekend evenings in December is the other teams don't want them because they know they won't draw as people are tied up with the holidays. I think they'd be better off taking more weekend afternoons in January and February. The Lancers do have a lot of sponsors, and supposedly they are most concerned with getting people in the arena regardless of paid or not.

    Back to the Rhinos, Clark's father's bank, Adirondack Bank, was involved in providing loans to the initial ownership group for PAETEC Park. Adirondack Bank acquired debt from NBT Bank (the other source of loans) in exchange for the Rhinos franchise. It certainly seems like a move to minimize their losses, and I've got to believe their ultimate, long-term goal is to find a buyer. For a while, Clark was living locally and actively managing the team (for better or for worse, but he seemed to have some passion). At least until Ercoli had to take over as coach, I had heard he became a little more distant (he does have a full-time role with the bank) and Ercoli was pulling the strings -- within the budget provided, of course! I do think the Rhinos spend some money on payroll -- even last year -- but the rest of the operations feels like it's all about cost containment. It's hard to be successful that way.
     
  16. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for the info about the management situation of the Rhinos. Is Soccer Sam at all involved with the Rhinos anymore? I remember when Don Stevens did the PbP in the early years, it was like listening to a hockey game. He got a lot better over the years.
     
  17. rochesterian80

    Mar 28, 2013
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    No. Soccer Sam and the Rhinos (under the Clark regime) did not part well. My understanding is there were some legal challenges, and many Rhinos sponsors (such as Nothnagle) bolted with him. Sam was seen at the stadium last year, but mainly to cheer on Salles and Tampa. (In fact, some of the Lancers staff was sent to Tampa to cheer on Salles when they opened last season against the Rhinos.)

    It's yet another bizarre twist in the Rochester soccer landscape. The Lancers are a good marketing machine but fairly clueless on the field. The Rhinos have much, much more soccer competence (and a President who played indoor and a coach that coached and played indoor) but struggle with marketing and community outreach. If they could only work together we might have two solid soccer organizations....
     
  18. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
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  19. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  20. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    The article is from october 2012 but shows clearly how franchises prefer to work against each other :(
     
  21. heinsryan

    heinsryan Member

    Feb 20, 2014
    Richmond, VA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can tell you that with Bob Lilley back with the Rhinos, look for an uptick in the organization of the players to slide in nicely. Bob is a fantastic coach that demands excellent. He places a heavy emphasis on making sure a good product is on the field.
     
  22. heinsryan

    heinsryan Member

    Feb 20, 2014
    Richmond, VA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In my personal opinion and what has been explained to me, as an ex Rhino's player, for the lack of attendance:
    - Frontier field was a closer more social atmosphere than the current (your sponsor here) stadium
    - This excuse bugs me: New stadium in a bad area (despite it being 3-4 block from Frontie)
    - There was a general buzz around Rochester that they would eventually go MLS and with that setting off into the sunset years ago, that buzz slowly faded and attendance went with it.

    Now these aren't my personal views not having been a Rochester citizen prior to playing nor after playing. These views are what I've heard from teammates who were with Rochester prior to me coming in and from fans
     
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  23. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Heinsryan - thanks for the input. It is great to have your insight into the situation. As I have said, I left the area in the late 1990s when the Rhinos were still king and playing at Frontier Field. Yes it was a little closer to the social stuff of High Falls etc, but the new stadium is not that far.
     
  24. heinsryan

    heinsryan Member

    Feb 20, 2014
    Richmond, VA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No problem, my honest beliefs are that the buzz started to fade for whatever reason (most likely MLS dreams disappeared).

    I think the other main part was that the community didn't identify with the players any longer. The USL league always has been a nomad type of league with players coming and going each year. The Rhinos had been an exception to the rule with a lot of consistency in the rosters from year to year. When I was in Rochester, there were ex players who settled down there, Doug Miller etc...., because they loved the community and the community loved them back. Currently I don't see that consistency in the roster that allows the community embrace certain players and allows the players to embrace the community. It's sort of a chicken before the egg scenario in my opinion.

    I can outright tell you that during my Rochester years, I played indoor as well and I had 0 stability. When I moved to Richmond for the Kickers, I retired from indoor to allow some stability and after I ended my career in 2013 with Richmond Kickers, I stayed here. I live here with my wife and extremely active within the community - something that I didn't find myself doing in Rochester (partly due to my indoor career in Philly during the offseason)
     
  25. RobtheAggie

    RobtheAggie Member+

    Sep 10, 2001
    Middle Georgia
    Club:
    Rochester Rhinos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting points. I agree that the Rhinos were the exception to the rule with regards to the nomadic nature of the players. The key is longer term contracts worth enough to keep players from jumping teams.
     

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