Who Is The Greatest Dribbler Ever

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Dearman, May 16, 2010.

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The Greatest Dribbler Ever

  1. Garrincha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Maradona

    3 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. George Best

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Ronaldo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Messi

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  6. Impossible to know

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  7. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Zlatko2010

    Zlatko2010 Member

    Mar 16, 2013
    It were Italian defenders that made crucial impact, not Baggio. Romario was the main star of WC , that's why he was awarded MVP of the tournament. I mention WC02 to show that Ronaldo was a real deal , pure genius that by doing nothing really special was scoring tons of goals. Baggio was great playing for Italian league, but his performances for national team you give him way too much credit, even his goal against Czechoslovakia is vastly overrated, he really passed only one player by dribbling , the last defender was just fooled by Baggio's body feints.


    Tell me better how great was Maradona at Copa America :D Compared to Ronaldo's performance there and Pele's in 1959(although he lost in the final) Diego looked poor. And I'm not talking about Romario who won it TWICE, truly the best Copa America player ever.
     
  2. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    You have NO HISTORY of Football ...and you act worse and worse every day to keep ensure you're the most clueless in that ! WOW so consistent and so determined - I admire you for that!

    Like I said, "hater" did not change the FACT : >80% people put Ronaldo in WC TOP10 best performers EVER
    Unfortunately people do NOT know and CARE for your clueless claim ...
    (FAILeD?? so FUNNY

    let me give you CLEAR example of FAIL:
    - FAILED= Baggio FAILED to convert the (simple PK) to win for Italy 94)
    - FAILED = Romario FAILED to convert after 6 shots, including 1 clear chance with only GK to beat WC94 final
     
  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That's an incredible goal by Baggio, feinting is part of dribbling also, and is better than any goal Ronaldo scored at the WC. Also, I don't think Romario was clearly better than Baggio, in fact WC94 had four equally extraordinary performances: Romario, Baggio, Hagi and Stoichkov. So far it is the last WC tournament to give us that many spectacular individual players.

    Ronaldo was no genius in WC02, besides the toepoke against Turkey (which he learned from Romario), there is not a single other memorable individual play he made the entire tournament. A legendary performance is something entirely different.
     
  4. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Noone rates any of Ronaldo's three WC performances in a top ten, perhaps all three combined, because of all the goals, puts him as one of the top WC performers ever, but that's not the same as saying he had a legendary tournament in any three of them.

    Yes, Baggio missed a pk and Romario could not score against Baresi, Maldini and Costacurta. How many goals did Ronaldo score against Barthez and Thuram in two WC matches?
     
    leadleader repped this.
  5. laudrup_10

    laudrup_10 Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    USA 94' was one of my favorite tournament's including the nostalgic factor, but I also think 1998 was up there in term's of spectacular individual player's.
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    WC98 had some great individual performances, but not four at the level of Romario, Hagi, Baggio, Stoichkov.
     
  7. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I still don't get it. Sure, great performance. But three things,

    (a) he had Romario as a teammate, and Romario was still pretty great in 1997. Not to mention the rest of the team.

    (b) all of his runs are very similar: using a lot of speed and power.

    (c) Baggio in his early twenties or in his peak, had he played against those Copa America teams, he would've probably scored better goals than Ronaldo.

    If your opinion was that you think that Ronaldo was a more dangerous dribbler because he was faster, I would understand the logic behind that. But when you say that Ronaldo was the better dribbler, I do not agree with that. Some players can be more dangerous even if they aren't better dribblers, simply because they are faster and stronger players. But I just don't see why Ronaldo is a better dribbler than Baggio.
     
  8. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    How many "Euros" do you think Baggio played?

    Did not play the 1996 Euro. Did not play the 1992 Euro. Did not play the 1988 Euro. So it seems rather odd that you are asking "what achieved Baggio at Euro?" when in fact it is impossible to achieve something at a tournament you did not play.

    Baggio was injured for the final game of World Cup 1994. In fact, Baggio was already injured for the very first game of the 1994 World Cup. This was reported by the commentators, reported on the newspaper, and confirmed by the team doctors. Baggio often played with niggling injuries, this is why he played with an injury, because it was rather normal in Baggio's case. For the record, Baggio was told not to play the final game.

    But anyways, considering how you criticized Baggio for not doing anything at the Euro (a tournament that Baggio never played), I think it is clear that you are just inventing stuff as you along. You even went as far as describing Ronaldo as one of the most decisive players ever..... despite him never playing a Champions League Final in all his years playing for top teams. In fact, Baggio's UEFA Cup final comfortably destroys what Ronaldo did in his UEFA Cup final. Not to mention, that Baggio reached the UEFA Cup final with Fiorentina, and then with Juventus. Whereas Ronaldo only reached the UEFA Cup final one time, with a big team like Inter (who had already won the UEFA Cup not long before Ronaldo joined), and in the final game, there were at least three Inter players who had a better game than him.

    Oh and, Baggio scored much better goals against AC Milan, when compared to the simple striker-type goals that Ronaldo scored against AC Milan. Funny how Ronaldo only seems to pull off those Compostela-like dribbling runs against Compostela-like teams, he certainly didn't do it at the World Cup, that's for sure. He was a great dribbler without a doubt, but I do think that he is greatly overrated in the dribbling department. I mean, even with all his speed and physical power, even with the great generation of Brazilian players that surrounded him, Ronaldo never really delivered his best at the World Cup stage.

    At the end of the day, I sincerely do not understand which measuring stick you are using here.
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  9. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Also, I forgot to mention that Lio Messi's dribbling runs at the 2007 Copa America, are clearly as good (or better) than Ronaldo's 1997 Copa America dribbling runs.

    It's quite funny how Messi, despite having a great 2007 Copa America, is described as a "fluke" with the national team. I mean, if you compare Ronaldo 1997 Copa America vs Messi 2007 Copa America, Messi certainly does not come off as a fluke.
     
  10. Zlatko2010

    Zlatko2010 Member

    Mar 16, 2013
    Ronaldo was MVP of the tournament and MVP of the final and actually won the tournament, Messi performance clearly wasn't as good. Mate, ''fluke'' was of course a too harsh word, but Messi's performances/achievements are still not comparable to Ronaldo's international performances/achievements, and not even close to legendary Maradona/Garrinhca international performances/achievements.
     
  11. Zlatko2010

    Zlatko2010 Member

    Mar 16, 2013
    For me it's actually clear as a daylight that Ronaldo is better dribbler. Why? Because he is probably the best ever at FAST dribbling, at running straight to the goal and dribbling everything that was on his way, he was like a terminator destroying anything that he faced:D Valdano called Ronaldo a hurricane and when he saw him first he was amazed that he plays in a football that was suited only for him , pushing the ball on the distances where no other player would ''caught'' the ball again. Of course Ronaldo massively benefited from his born abilities as you said earlier, but that doesn't make him worse. Messi is quite small, but he has cosmic acceleration, Baggio was never playing and controling the ball at the speed similar to Ronaldo's and Messi's. Because of that ability to explosively dive into the defence I rate Ronaldo as superior to BAggio who said himself that ROnaldo was better. Don't you think that Baggio knows better about himself than you;)?

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    Baggio played in Italy for all his life , Ronaldo 6-7x less time, that's why it's quite inaccurate to judge about about their goals against Milan or UEFA performance. Baggio was simply much more used to playing there and had better understanding with the teammates. If not the injuries give Ronaldo 2-3 more years playing in Italy and he would have done many more wonders.

    As for Euro it was also Baggio's problem that wasn't athletic enough to play Euro 1996 and it was also his problem that he didn't led Italy to qualify for Euro 1992. And BAggio made his first appearance for national team at the age of 21, when Ronaldo was already Copa America champion and WC runner-up. ;)
     
  12. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I appreciate what you're saying, but you really need to get it through your head that we are talking about "dribbling", not about "MVPs" -- entirely different things. Being the best dribbler at a tournament does not make you the MVP of the tournament.

    Ronaldo 1997 Copa America DRIBBLING vs Messi 2007 Copa America DRIBBLING.... Are about even, in fact, I would say that Messi had better (and much more consistent) dribbling runs than Ronaldo. Obviously, that doesn't mean that Messi was the MVP, but it means that Messi was already pulling off great dribbling runs with Argentina.
     
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.
  13. leadleader

    leadleader Member+

    Aug 19, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't agree. Obviously Ronaldo was a more "vertical" or "aggressive" dribbler than Baggio, simply because he was more explosive, faster on top speed, and stronger. I think you don't know where to draw the line between dribbling ability and physical attributes; clearly, in your mind, physical attributes = better dribbling ability.... which I find illogical.

    I also do not believe that Baggio considers Ronaldo as better than himself. Baggio clearly puts himself in the same category as Ronaldo, I've read interviews where he's said that Maradona and Pele are at the top, and then come Ronaldo, himself, Van Basten, etc.

    Baggio was already scoring great goals against AC Milan before 1990. You do know that pre-1990 Baggio spend most of his time recovering from two serious knee injuries to the same knee? So it does look like Baggio didn't need that much time playing Serie A to start scoring wonder goals against the likes of AC Milan or against Maradona's Napoli.

    There's always an excuse for Ronaldo, it's just unbelievable.... Was not memorable against Real Madrid, despite the Spanish league not being known for being defensive; why? Well surely Ronaldo fans have an excuse to explain why that happened twice in one season. Was not memorable against AC Milan, apparently because he needed more time to adapt to Italian football, before we got to see him scoring wonder goals against AC Milan. Was not particularly memorable at the 1998 World Cup, because he was too young and immature to deliver on that stage. LOL. I mean, the list of excuses is endless.

    NOTE

    That large series of gifs/videos does not prove anything. The same could be done with Baggio, very easily.
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #1289 JamesBH11, Dec 6, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
    First and 2nd bold, I think you and some others need to get this REALITY thru your head, about the clear perception of a so called MEANINGFUL DRIBBLING:

    Ronaldo's dribble MEANINGFUL = 5goals/6games and WON COPA97 >> Messi dribble's 0goal/4games lost at QF.

    Lastly, I just highlighted the fact, Ronaldo did some dribbling (not circus like) was mUCH more valuable and meaningful then say from Denilson's to kill off the time at WC02, or from "WHATEVEr" YOU named for Messi at both Copa's FAILURE.

    Ronaldo participated 2 copas and WON BOTH: MVP 97, and TOPscorer 99 as individual effort (10goals + 5ass/12games), a FACT that Messi might never reach ... NOT even mentioned of WC's as higher level just YET
     
  15. Zlatko2010

    Zlatko2010 Member

    Mar 16, 2013
    #1290 Zlatko2010, Dec 6, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
    Let's put it this way - Ronaldo was able to do anything in dribbling that Baggio could, Baggio wasn't vice versa.

    Baggio was a great dribbler, his ability to fool defenders was as good as Ronaldo's or even better, but who canceled physical part of the dribbling? What is special about Ronaldo is not only his speed, but how precisely he controlled the ball dribbling at such fast speed. His touch was so good that after recieving the ball from the pass he wasn't slowing the speed of a ball down , wasn't making adjustments , but immediately pushed it in the proper space , like in a billiard. :D Defenders didn't even had time to realize what was happening. Baggio wasn't doing such things. Baggio was very clever dribbler, but for me Ronaldo seems technically better, faster and more precise with ball, that's why I give him an edge.

    Also, why Maldini who played against and with Baggio give the edge to Ronaldo?

    "Maradona is the best opponent I've ever played against in my career,” Maldini told Il Giornale.

    “However Ronaldo, when he was at Inter, was very close to him. He was devastating.”
     
  16. Zlatko2010

    Zlatko2010 Member

    Mar 16, 2013
    What if we will give more attention to the fact that Maradona and Messi are lefties , but 99% of defenders play with right foot. That gives some really big advantage for Diego and Leo because it's extremely uncomfortable to defend against lefties for right-footed players. In that case I would take George Best as the best dribbler ever.
     
  17. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    That's a good remark, however to be fair that "lefty" (reversed direction change for DF) would be a disadvantage for their first few seasons ... DF (or good DF) knows how to learn and adapt well sooner then later ...
     
  18. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Maradona, Baggio and Ronaldo shared the same issue with UCL" they never played in UCl in their best form nor with the best team there .. (Ronaldo was good and close in 2003 SF with Real, and was so unfortunate to play and to win UCL 2007 with Milan ...)
     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #1294 JamesBH11, Dec 8, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
    I don;t care, but most good sources put him in TOP10 ... Times NY, Placar, WOrldcup planet, Bleacher report ,,, many ..

    ONLY if Baggio or Romario had same excuses as "bad form, unfit" as Ronaldo then your argumet becmae a bit more sense ... ortehrwise ridiculous and nonesensical. OK?

    "produce me a fake report" saying Romario and Baggio were causing the whole WC team panic, the most "controversial" Final in WC HISTORY .... like Roanldo 98???

    At good form: Ronaldo beat Barthez 3 goals/70mins at ManU LOL
    Against Thuram, Canavaro and Buffon: 1goal/2games (thanks to Buffon saved 1 PK otherwise 2/2 OK?
    So against Buffon: 2goals/3games (won 2 PK all missed - by himself and Figo)
    ====================================================

    Let me REPEAT: Ronaldo was a BIG GAMES player (> Romario > Baggio) OK?

    Ronaldo 17goals/15games (all FINAL + some SEMIFINAL) missed ONE WC98 due to unfit! Scored in 14/15 = 93%.
    Romario 11goals/10games (all Final + some SF) missed in 3,4 Finals = ~60%
     
  20. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Look back at older era's - they surely know how to stop great dribblers:

    Holding a teen was not "child abused" back then, but teen Pele still scored

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    So the only way to stop the king is to get him out of the game ...
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    Legend DF Berti Vogts on Cruijff: My legs are slower but I got my hands-free ...

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  21. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #1296 JamesBH11, Dec 8, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
    - A Legend Gentille who made Maradona (cried) at WC82 ... for he played with 2 legs and ... 2 hands

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    no wonder Maradona looked so sexy with his open (torn) shirt , but he finally passed his maker

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    and Zico's shirt was even more fancy by Gentille's hand made ...

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    Gentille was becoming just as famous as Maradona and Zico at time (for he was always next to them like best friends)
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    it took 2 to TANGO with Fenomeno (Maldini + Canavaro same time ... )

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  22. Zlatko2010

    Zlatko2010 Member

    Mar 16, 2013
  23. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Happy new year!

    In the begginning you always quoted 90% of people saying Ronaldo to be better.

    But now it's scaled down to 80% of people?

    What happened did our debate soften your conviction a bit. I hope it did.

    Perhaps if we continue this debate in a month or so, you'll quote 60% then 50% and then 40%?

    I look forward to the future my friend.
     
  24. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ronaldo has failed many shots in a world cup too. Does that make him a failure?

    There's a compilation video on youtube of Ro-Ro duo in 97. Ronaldo's got the ball. Romario is clear and unchecked in front of the goal. Instead of passing the ball to Romario, R9 goes for the goal and guess what happens? The ball hits the pole. Is that your version of perfect striker?

    So I think it's unfair to hold Romario and Baggio accountable for missing opportunities. That won't settle the debate, since Ronaldo had missed many opportunities too.

    At least Romario missed against a big opponent (Italy) whereas Ronaldo did not even touche the ball not even once in the final of 98.
     
  25. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I agree with you in that since when is fainting irrelevant?

    He scored after fainting. And that makes Baggio a genius!
     

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