Hamilton to NASL?

Discussion in 'NASL Expansion' started by atlanticTFCfan, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well since the head of the CSA also signed the letter, I am thinking CSA is doing another of their usual 180 turns; it works very well with Canadian coaches.

    So if the head of the CSA is behind the Toronto plan I would think the Canadian D3 idea is death (until the CAS changes their mind again).
     
  2. MakingGoals

    MakingGoals Member

    Sep 12, 2013
    I'll say this. Whoever wants to fully represent Hamilton has to be able play in the new Tim Horton's Field replacing Ivor Wynne Stadium. And the team has to be able to participate in the Voyageurs Cup. If that is not accomplished, then they may have to look elsewhere to build. Anything less is a waste of the city's potential.
     
  3. dmont

    dmont Member

    Dec 7, 2012
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    .

    The latest. Looks like TFC and the Lynx are trying to sneak in during Bob Young's stadium usage negotiations. Looks like Bob still wants some say in soccer in Tim Hortons Field, but only under his usage agreement and only after negotiations have concluded.

    Toronto team keen to play soccer at new Hortons Field
    City would have to renege on tentative Ticats deal


    http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4146864-toronto-team-keen-to-play-soccer-at-new-hortons-field/

    ByMatthew Van Dongen

    ...

    "Two professional soccer teams won't work in Hamilton. We can't make this work without sole use," said Theroux, who wants a five-year deal. "We told them we're ready to go in 2014, but time is getting shorter."

    Theroux said ideally he'd like to have a pro team ready for possible exhibition games next August if the stadium is complete. The Lynx would need a temporary field for any earlier matches and the 2015 Pan Am Games, he said.

    Via email, Ticats owner Bob Young called the discussion "premature" because his club and the city are still negotiating a stadium usage deal. It's unclear if the city will extend the club's soccer exclusivity deal, but sources have told The Spectator the Ticats want a new 2017 deadline.

    ...
     
  4. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whoa. Last line on there has me worried: '$2 million in financing from a Hong Kong-based investor.' That just sounds shady. Heck, the whole Toronto Lynx thing sounds shady. What is the deal with the USL trying to get all these teams propped up over night? If/when these overnight teams fail, they'll have done more damage than good to the game as a whole
     
  5. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
    Montagliani is the new boss who replaced Maestracci on May 6, 2012

    http://www.canadasoccer.com/montagliani-elected-canadian-soccer-association-president-p150421

    He is the champion on division 3 in Canada and Long Term Player Development implementation.

    He has basically pushed out the Canadian Soccer League (Div 3) by not renewing their sanctioning for 2014. They are the league that has been fraught with match fixing charges. Also, the current league doesn't develop enough players to warrant its position in the largest players base in Canada.
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who is Montopoli?

    man can they get more confusing names up there?


    http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/5AC7DC5C-D854-4CB4-96BB-B3DB11B9E458/0/Aug1656.pdf

    3rd letter.

     
  9. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada

    Montopoli is the General Secretary of the CSA. Montagliani is the CSA President and top dog apparently.

    The CSA is pretty disfuntional and doesn't release much info that often on what its doing it seems. They had a meeting last month partly on strategies for the coming years and have released no info at all about what took place or what they decided/discussed. The whole situation with TFC/Lynx should be resolved one way or another soon, there was/is supposed to be discussion on the agenda at Hamilton City the last week of October.
     
  10. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hamilton City? What a great name for a team! Quick, logo, scarf and jersey mock ups!

    Seriously though, the CSA needs to decide if they want to let the Canadian MLS teams be involved in the USL Pro, or use them to help jumpstart an actual D3 in Canada. Sooner they figure that out the better. Actually, CSA should require all teams in MLS and NASL to have a partner team in a new D3. Don't think they have the stones to pull that off though
     
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  11. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
    I don't think it is an either or scenario. The D3 model is age restricted to U23 whereas the MLS relationship with USL Pro is typically an affiliation program for on the cusp roster players.

    You can have a U23 team and a reserve affiliate team for MLS teams. TFC, for instance, did have a CSL team and a reserve team. The Whitecaps have a PDL team and they have a reserve team.

    CDN NASL teams will probably have an affiliate program with the U23 D3 league. USL Pro teams usually have PDL teams so it stands to reason the NASL would want the same development opportunities for their players.

    I think the real issue is the use of the new stadium for TFC/USL Pro purposes instead of a Hamilton centric NASL team. To me, a USL Pro TFC affiliate eliminates a prime rivalry and limits the potential consumerism.

    And yes, Mr. Montagliani and the CSA do have the stones to mandate.
     
  12. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    From what I've read there is however nothing stating the Canadian D3 model won't allow a select number of over 23 players on each team(2,4,6? who knows), nothing saying it will be 100% U23. It would make sense for the league to have a limited number of over 23 players to allow for a higher level of play and quality and bring in more fans for the teams involved.

    If you have links to info otherwise provide them though, its hard to find much info on the topic, especially newer info from the CSA which never seems to give out much news.
     
  13. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
    I went to one of townhall meetings with the CSA. I suggested they improve on proactive marketing and communications so I empathize with your position. As for the league design, nothing has come out publicly. Montagliani said nothing would be discussed until after the end of the CSL was finished with their sanctioning out or respect. The CSL final is on Nov. 3rd.

    There maybe a quota for overage players but having overage players doesn't necessarily improve the league's quality or attract fans. I think they will try to emulate the CHL model. Trying to be the best league possible for a certain age group. The Easton Report was much more robust than the abbreviated version released to the public so the design maybe known.

    I would think the league would try to keep the U23 rule protected. Having older players in the CSL didn't do anything for the league. In fact, it just recycled bad players, leaned on foreign recruitment, and lacked any sort of player development model.
     
  14. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
    http://the11.ca/2013/10/28/csa-pres...hamilton-usl-sanction-decision-still-far-away

    HAMILTON IN USL
    Last January, Montagliani said that the Canadian Soccer Association wouldn’t sanction USL-PRO teams based in Canada. (CLICK HERE)

    But, as investors look to move the Toronto Lynx into Hamilton — and build an affiliation with Toronto FC as mandated by the MLS-USL working agreement — it looks as if the position has been softened. Toronto Lynx president Alain Theroux has asked Hamilton’s council to consider a plan to allow it to become a tenant in the new Tim Hortons Field.

    Included in the documents to Hamilton City Council was a CSA letter of support for a Hamilton USL team.

    When asked if a Hamilton USL team would get sanctioned, Montagliani said it’s too far away to say yes or no.

    “They are still far away from getting to that point,” said the CSA president.

    But Montagliani said situations like Hamilton’s could be examined on a “case by case” basis.

    “It’s about creating as many opportunities as we can for Canadian players, Canadian coaches,” he said.

    And he said sanctioning is a lot more than a rubber stamp. A club has to prove itself to the CSA, that it’s financially viable and invested in the future.

    “When we put in the moratorium (on sanctioning lower-division teams in non-Canadian based leagues) we didn’t do it so we could say we did not want to sanction this guy or those guys. We wanted to take a long look at our pyramid and see how it could develop. We wanted to see what would happen with the Quebec semipro league and now an Ontario semipro league. We have some things that we want to happen in the next two or three years in relation to the professional game and the way the pyramid is shaped in Canada.”

    As for those plans, Montagliani said the CSA isn’t ready to unveil them yet.
     
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL at the CSA.

    I feel bad for you Canadians; I guess we know one of the reasons why your National Men's team has struggled the last few years (cycles).
     
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  16. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The CSA should look to set up a Football Federation of Australia type of system. They have all their state leagues, sans Victoria, playing under one umbrella with the champions of each state league entering a playoff. The goal is to observe the state teams and see which ones would be suitable as potential A League franchises, and also to see which ones could be used to form a National D2. That's what Canada needs. Build up the state leagues for a few years, then build up the best teams to form a National D3. This would prevent, hopefully, anymore Hamilton situations, but requires a serious long term vision of at least 5+ years, and it doesn't look like Canada wants to think that far down the road
     
  17. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
    This is pretty much what the CSA is trying to achieve. The idea is to have regional leagues (so more than just single provinces but generally it will be Ontario, BC, Quebec centric). That covers the largest player pools.

    As for Hamilton, the CSA is better off with more teams. If anything, this puts pressure on Mr. Young to get his act together. The CSA, I'm sure, would prefer a NASL franchise over the Lynx (who have no money) but they can't stand in the way of progress if the Ti-Cat owner isn't going to fork out the cash. The CSA has had conversations with every CFL stadium operator about adding a soccer team. The regional leagues are trying to foster that organic growth to lead to bigger clubs and use of the CFL facilities.

    Progress is being made. Its just not quick enough unfortunately.
     
  18. Sporting Real

    Sporting Real Member+

    Jun 29, 2011
    Kansas City
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks DigzTFC. I didn't realize the CSA had that much of a plan for building up from the Regional Level to National. Good to know they have a plan, regardless of how slow it may be moving
     
  19. DigzTFC

    DigzTFC Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    Halifax
    This is the general sentiment in Canada for the decades of mismanagement from a national governing body. However, they have made leaps and bounds of progress that aren't overtly recognized.

    For instance, the biggest impediment from a National standpoint was governance reform. In system works as follows, the clubs collected money from the players, who gave it to the province, who then give it to the country who then redistributes the cash to the national team programs. While the flow of cash hasn't been altered (but rumors are a centralized player registration system will be put in place to make sure funds are appropriated correctly and be streamlined through the CSA) the governance structure has. Coupled with the cash flow regulation issue, the CSA was made of up representatives from each provinces and each provincial representative was basically appeasing the clubs. So what you had was the clubs running the country. The clubs held all the money and protected their money through a voting system. Whether intentions were good or bad, the was the result. The clubs running the country and no one caring about the overall game. The CSA has little else in terms of income save $4 mill govt funding and $2 mill in sponsorship with about an overall budget of $12 mill. (Estimates from memory).

    What's even more of a pain is the bureaucracy at the provincial level. In Ontario, they have put together an elite league for youth players. It took two years to organize. Lots of marketing and stakeholder education. When it came down to vote on the very basic elements of the league which were long agreed upon, petty politics damaged it. Simple things like allowing for profit academies and not for profit academies to play in the same league. Because the "Board of Directors" for the province were filled by club representatives, the majority of whom were not-for-profit voted against it for $ and protectionism (players). Our governance structure is the biggest impediment to the changes needed that are blatantly obvious to everyone. When it comes to people's income, no one cares about the better good.

    So, long story short. The CSA have made the governance reform in order to make great decisions for the National Program and teams, however, the same reform needs to occur at the provincial level to implement those changes. The CSA has hired Benito Floro, desanctioned the CSL, done a Div2/3 study and design, created a strategic plan, done more stakeholder mgt than ever on top of governance restructuring in a year and half.

    The bureaucracy is changing but it needs to change top down.
     
  20. HAMILTON CITY FC

    HAMILTON CITY FC New Member

    Nov 1, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    as a Hamiltonian....I hope its a NASL team.. even if I have to wait another couple years,,, there is no way a TFC reserve/development team would do well here for one simple reason,...... WE HATE TORONTO....the people of Hamilton want our own team so we can beat Toronto... if these people did their homework,, they would already know this... the history of Hamilton vs Toronto goes way back... and im not just talking argos vs ti-cats... we have no desire to support or see the MLS bottom feeders development players..( that would be like asking Liverpool fans to support Everton, or Man city to support Man united.... not gonna happen ever)!!! .. hurry up Bob Young and give us our team already!!!!!!
     
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  21. MakingGoals

    MakingGoals Member

    Sep 12, 2013
    Well said.
     
  22. dmont

    dmont Member

    Dec 7, 2012
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    .
    Hamilton city staff are recommending council NOT proceed with the Toronto Lynx and USL Pro.
    http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/6394F7D5-6392-4FA5-B75F-C8983BE5EB36/0/Dec0253PW13095.pdf
    The reasons:
    1) Due to stadium construction and Pan-Ams, the earliest a soccer team could play a full season in the stadium is 2016. Lynx wanted 2014.
    2) City and Hamilton Soccer Association are committed to bringing the highest possible level of soccer to Hamilton (that's not USL Pro!).
    3) Still negotiating with the Ticats concerning stadium operation and soccer exclusivity.
    4) Lynx don't have CSA sanctioning as a pro franchise, and don't have an expansion USL Pro franchise. Still way off.
    5) Lynx haven't measured the USL Pro interest in Hamilton yet, or presented a budget.
    I hope the city listens to their staff. I think that's great news for soccer in Hamilton, and for the Ticats in controlling the stadium. C'mon, Bob, bring the NASL to Hamilton. Don't make a shmuck outta me! :)
     
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  23. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any news from Bob Young yet? Has ever been quoted with an opinion on TFC, USL and the Lynx attempts?
     
  24. dmont

    dmont Member

    Dec 7, 2012
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    This was the last I heard first hand:

    http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82991

    Bob posts as "Caretaker".
     
  25. dmont

    dmont Member

    Dec 7, 2012
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    .

    The latest from Bob Young:

    http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82991&p=1620445#p1620445

     
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