Pretty sure they had to go through qualifiers last two tournaments and came out of two group of deaths and only went out to the champions, Spain (on penalties at Euro 2012). Before that their last tournament exit was to Germany. So in the last 3 tournaments, they've gone out to the two best teams in the world. There's people like you before every tournament, but frankly, it actually works for Portugal. The more they're underestimated, the better they do.
I would modify your system and rank them as follows: Tier One (the Favorites): 1- Brazil 2- Argentina 3- Germany 4- Spain Tier Two (the other top Contenders): 5- Colombia, 6- Italy, 7- Holland, 8- Portugal, 9- France Tier Three (the Dark Horses): 10- Ghana 11- Chile 12- Japan 13- USA, 14- Uruguay 15- Nigeria 16- Belgium 17- Ivory Coast 18- England Tier Four (On the Cusp): 19- Ecuador 20-Switzerland 21-Russia 22-South Korea 23-Mexico Tier Five (Also Ran): 24- Greece 25- Croatia 26-Iran* 27-Bosnia 28-Costa Rica 29-Honduras 30-Cameroon 31-Algeria 32-Australia *this is how it is now, but I see signs of a rather promising team coming together as well. Therefore, I reserve the right to sing Iran's praises and indicate more hopeful expectations down the line, if I see our team gel together and pass its tests in friendlies
So is Portugal the team that played poorly during qualifying for WC 2010, Euro 2012 and WC 2014, or the team that only lost to Germany and Spain during the actual tournaments and dominated Bosnia in the playoffs x2 and beat a tough Sweden 4-2. In other words we should judge teams more on how they qualify rather then how they play when it matters most? please tell me your top ten, this should be funny.
Top 5: 1. Brazil 2. Germany 3. Spain 4. Argentina 5. Italy/Holland Bottom 5: 28. Algeria/South Korea 29. Honduras 30. Costa Rica 31. Iran 32. Australia
Sheesh, I said I was a Portugal fan. They belong somewhere between 10-15, not top 10. Everyone sees Ronaldo score a hat trick and suddenly they think they should be a seeded team at #6 or 7? Geeze, hold your horses. Portugal is and has been a team that can be incredibly good, but is also incredibly inconsistent and often steered down by their own snowballing pessimism when things are not going their way. I'm judging Portugal from what they've done over the past 4 years, not from this WC qualifying.
Yeah they beat us 6-2 but were only up 3-2 before a red card to our LB. And the other leg was 0-0, not dominating at all when you look at it from that perspective.
Consistent in the tournaments and inconsistent during qualifiers and friendlies. What we are saying is it would be more rational to judge a team based on the tournaments rather then the qualifiers, especially because the playoffs are treated more like tournaments and they have done well in the playoffs. I doubt that's a coincidence. If you don't put them in the top 10 you would be forced to include less proven teams.
This is a ranking based on average odds from top bookmakers: 1. Brazil 2. Germany 3. Argentina 4. Spain 5. Belgium 6. Holland 7. Italy 8. England 9. Colombia 10. France 11. Portugal 12. Uruguay 13. Chile 14. Russia 15. Ghana 16. Mexico 17. Croatia 18. Switzerland 19. USA 20. CIV 21. Ecuador 22. Japan 23. Bosnia 24. Nigeria 25. Greece 26. South Korea 27. Cameroon 28. Australia 29. Algeria 30. Costa Rica 31. Iran 32. Honduras
I got a bit carried away trying to prove a point, but your right it wasn't as one sided as I made it out to be.
@vancity: Portugal have C.Ronaldo. And that means that they are capable of punching above their weight in the World Cup. Otherwise, with Ronaldo not all that intensely motivated and based on their team as a whole, Portugal would merely rank around how it finished in UEFA (as one of their 9-13 teams). I am not as irritated with people overrating South Korea any more. Since 2010, they do have a decent enough team. But for much of the period before then, when Iran was busy tripping over itself at the wrong time for one bizarre reason or another, Iran was so much better than S.Korea -- and any half serious follower of Asian football would know it too. As for Russia, they appear a bit inconsistent to me. Under Dick Advocat, the Russians were mediocre and I saw them deservedly lose to Iran despite having their top players with them. But they seem to have improved in time. But somehow I just don't expect much from them anyway, perhaps because they haven't done much in the World Cup up to now. As for Mexico being rated above Honduras and Costa Rica despite the qualifiers, that is right. But unlike those who rate S.Korea over Iran, the situations aren't analogous really. South Korea is often (very often and almost always) ranked behind Iran in FIFA and ELO rankings and was truly not as good as Iran despite making the World cup more often and doing better. I don't think either Costa Rica or Honduras have ever considered themselves better than Mexico until now.
So according to you we should judge a team based on tournaments from 2, 4, 6 years ago, rather than looking at their whole track record across all events over the past few years. Okay, you have fun with that. Doesn't matter what they've been playing like the past year or two, what matters is how the group of guys performed in the Euros 2 years ago. Gotcha. There's a reason why nearly every ranking list has Portugal out of the top 10. Teams in the top 10 are not "less proven" - that's why they're there. I know you're a Portugal fan too, just saying, take off your red-and-green colored glasses.
1. Brazil 2. Spain 3. Argentina 4. Germany 5. Colombia 6. Uruguay 7. Italy 8. Netherlands 9. Belgium 10. Chile 11. England 12. Japan 13. Russia 14. Ivory Coast 15. France 16. Bosnia-Herzegovina 17. Switzerland 18. South Korea 19. Portugal 20. Ecuador 21. Nigeria 22. United States 23. Mexico 24. Croatia 25. Ghana 26. Greece 27. Cameroon 28. Algeria 29. Costa Rica 30. Honduras 31. Australia 32. Iran
Portugal has two things going for them in tournaments - one of the best offensive players of the past 20 years and a very good defense - ideal for 5-7 games. Its talent that's good enough for the quarters, and occasionally good enough for the semis. How they do in qualifying is practically irrelevant.
I don't think that's an appropriate metric. Brazil's last 2 world cup winning teams were mediocre until the tournament. Conversely, France won the World Cup in 98 and the Euros in 2000 and crashed out with an injured Zidane in 02 - but given their depth, the team still should've been good enough for the quarters. I think Portugal can top their group, provided they don't get Spain, Brazil, or Germany.
Oh sweet God this isn't that difficult, the team is exactly the same as the semi final Euro team. What I am saying is the way they qualified for this WC is no different then previous tournaments and there was a bunch of people like you thinking the same thing. So what I am saying is, I don't believe it to be a coincidence and more of a mentality thing. By the way, nearly every ranking list? you mean fifa, because right now they are 14 and next month they will be 5 or 6, or maybe ELO were they are at 8. Please tell me what ranking you are talking about, I am getting the feeling you are pulling things out of your ass. I also do not see things with a bias, I never have and never will, I know Portugal will likely not get past a QF this WC, I rank them 8th in the world. There is 2 things that bother me and I always feel the need to defend when it comes to Portugal. 1 is when people say they are overrated, when in fact if you see the odds and what people think, they are often more undervalued. 2 When people think they are all about Ronaldo, this only upsets me because I believe it's a slap in the face to guys like Pepe, Moutinho, Coentrao and Nani, whom are so rarely mentioned because they play in Ronaldos shadow.
I have rated Portugal a "contender" in my list; numerically, among the 32 teams, at #8. But there is no way I would rate them that highly without C Ronaldo. I am sorry, those other players are fine but they don't make Portugal a contender. Its Ronaldo that does.
Next week's updated ranking will have Portugal ranked 5th. The reason they were out of the top 10 last month (for the fist time in many years) was their weak qualifying campaign and friendlies. Which unfortunately we traditionally take lightly or always seem unmotivated against weaker sides. As others have already explained and you seem to be ignoring is that Portugal have been mediocre during qualifying in the past several tournaments but when it matters (playoffs) and tournaments, they have consistently performed well in tournaments over the last 12 yrs. In only the last few years as you've been referring to, we have only been knocked out marginally by Spain, the eventual winners in both the WC10 and EC12. This is essentially the same team.
Yes I agree of course, but without, lets say Moutinho, Ronaldo would not get the service he gets. While everyone was so focused on Ronaldos hat trick, they seemed to miss 2 absolutely beautiful passes from Moutinho.
By Confederation Conembol: 1. Brazil 2. Argentina 3. Colombia 4. Chile 5. Ecuador 6. Uruguay UEFA 1. Spain 2. Germany 3. Italy 4. Portugal 5. Holland 6. France 7. England 8. Belgium 9. Croatia 10. Russia 11. Bosnia 12. Switzerland 13. Greece CAF 1. Ghana 2. Ivory Coast 3. Nigeria 4. Cameroon 5. Algeria Concacaf 1. USA 2. Mexico 3. Costa Rica 4. Honduras AFC 1. Japan 2. South Korea 3. Iran 4. Australia
1.Spain 2.Germany 3.Brazil 4.Argentina 5.Italy 6.Colombia 7.Holland 8.Chile 9.Uruguay 10.Portugal 11.England 12.Ghana 13. Belgium 14.France 15. Russia 16. Japan 17. I.Coast 18, Switzerland 19. Ecuador 20. USA 21. Bosnia 22. Nigeria 23.Croatia 24.Greece 25.Mexico 26.Cameroon 27.S.Korea 28.C.Rica 29.Algeria 30.Iran 31.Honduras 32.Australia
Over All 1. Brazil (home advantage) 2. Spain 3. Argentina 4. Germany 5. Colombia 6. Italy 7. Portugal 8. Netherlands 9. Uruguay 10. Chile 11. France 12. England 13. Japan 14. Belgium 15. Ivory Coast 16. Croatia 17. Russia 18. Mexico 19. Bosnia 20. Ecuador 21. Switzerland 22. United States 23. Greece 24. Nigeria 25. Ghana 26. Iran 27. Cameroon 28. South Korea 29. Costa Rica 30. Algeria 31. Australia 32. Honduras
Jesus. What I get for wandering into this topic in this thread. Yeah, the guy with "Nani" in his screen name will be completely unbiased... Yes, the FIFA rankings, ELO, rankings by sports writers and analysts. I've watched Portugal and their players over various games. They're not top 10. Close, but not. I understand you disagree. That's fine. I'll leave you guys to your speculation.
Rubbish indeed. I used to rate them 2nd in my rankings, but have dropped them, not because they lost the friendly to S. Africa but because I didn't like them cheating the South Africans of a freaking friendly result! That's low. And shows the Spaniards don't quite believe themselves anymore either to have to cheat, in which case why should I?
1 - Brazil 2 - Germany 3 - Spain 4 - Italy 5 - Argentina 6 - Netherlands 7 - Colombia 8 - France 9 - Portugal 10 - Belgium 11 - Chile 12 - Uruguay 13 - England 14 - Ghana 15 - Japan 16 - Russia 17 - Ivory Coast 18 - Croatia 19 - USA 20- Mexico 21 - Ecuador 22 - Nigeria 23 - Greece 24 - Bosnia 25 - South Korea 26 - Switzerland 27 - Cameroon 28 - Australia 29 - Costa Rica 30 - Iran 31 - Algeria 32 - Honduras