The new RL is the graveyard of German footy..

Discussion in 'Germany' started by Schwalker, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. CCinGermany

    CCinGermany Member

    May 3, 2006
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    6 teams with at least one year of top flight experience. By my estimation, the RL Südwest has 3 (Kickers Offenbach, Waldhof Mannheim and Ulm) while the other 3 RLs have zero.
     
  2. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Been to Berlin--both before and after the Wall came down--but did not spend much time talking with folks in the East (though I do now have some friends from the former East Berlin). Driving on the autobahn/roads from Goslar to Berlin and from Berlin to Hof didn't take us through that much of the old East. I did note the poverty/abandoned buildings while driving thru Magdeburg to get to the Autobahn. The only team I've seen play from out that way is Hertha BSC in the Olympic Stadium.
     
  3. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I see, it's very strange to me as an outsider how very few westerners have gone to the east or experience life in eastern Germany. Maybe it's just a out of sight out of mind situation. I believe the east was awarded with two WC venues in 2006 Leipzig and Dresden if I recall. It didn't help when I believe some Germans told non-whites tourists traveling to the WC to not visit areas of east Germany after night especially east Berlin.
     
  4. Hobo

    Hobo Member+

    Apr 29, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just Leipzig
     
  5. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of the reason was that the East, excepting East Berlin, was inaccessible to Westerners until 1990. Part is that many Americans equate Bavaria with Germany--perhaps adding a Rhein cruise to their travels. Part is that the US team in 2006 was not assigned to Leipzig (Dresden was not a venue). Now I did go to East Berlin twice (1973 and 1978--school not military) and it was quite educational. We were planning to see Dresden (which is our sister city) in 2005, but the weather spoke otherwise--it was pouring down rain in Dresden so we stayed back in Berlin where it was dry and visited the former East Berlin zoo (Mrs KG is crazy about elephants--and there were at least 20 there including some babies). It was kind of eerie one night when we were getting a pizza and a drink in Potsdamer Platz and realized that our table was pretty much sitting on the former path of the Wall.
     
  6. Zak1FCK

    Zak1FCK Member+

    Aug 23, 2005
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    FC Kaiserslautern
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Homburg also played in the Bundesliga.
     
  7. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends on how you count Lok Leipzig too....
     
  8. CCinGermany

    CCinGermany Member

    May 3, 2006
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Thanks, was fairly sure I was overlooking someone!

    And yes...overlooked the convoluted history of Lok Leipzig as well. Even including them, there are more Bundesliga clubs in the RL West than in all of the other RLs combined.
     
  9. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is not too surprising as that's always been the region most of the BL teams come from anyway, due to the densely populated Ruhr area plus Cologne and Duesseldorf.
     
  10. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rampant? That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there. Don't mistake a few clubs and incidents for the whole.

    For what it's worth, I lived in the former DDR for two years in the 90s, and I saw very little of what you speak while spending a lot of time on the streets. I'm sure things may have changed somewhat since then, but let's not overstate the case. The problems keeping eastern clubs out of the Bundesliga are economic in nature rather than hooliganistic.
     
    CCinGermany repped this.
  11. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

    Mein Leipzig lob ich mir.
     
  12. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    It depends on the area. It is rampant in some areas, and not just a few incidents. In some towns its hard not to see neo-nazis, even if you try. Don't mistake Leipzig, Berlin or Dresden with being typically Eastern Germany either. Rural or small-town Pommerania, Saxony-Anhalt or Brandenburg is quite different. Just hang out for a bit in Nordhausen, Anklam, or Sangershausen.
     
  13. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have lived in Nordhausen. :) Also Plauen, Halberstadt, Köthen, and Bischofswerda (population 11,000!) I have ridden the Harzer Schmalspurbahn and visited Wernigerode twice from both directions! I'm pretty familiar with small town life in the east. But again, it's been awhile so I'm sure things may have changed since I was there. There was, of course, some Ausländerfeindlichkeit in the '90s -- I can only hope it doesn't continue to get any worse.

    And back to the original point - any problems with neo-Nazism are not the thing keeping east clubs out of the Bundesliga, although they may be a symptom of the larger problem.
     
  14. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Oh I agree but I think the rise of far-right movements and parties are particular evident and a problem in the East and not the west. Reason for that is economic and insecurity but their is a strain of feeling left behind since reunification and resented being left behind and looked down upon in the United Germany. The Eastern clubs failing in football and the anger channeled into hooliganism or neo-Nazism might be a sign of economic hopelessness.
     
  15. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC



    Exactly http://www.spiegel.de/international...-eastern-german-state-of-saxony-a-838231.html

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/05/neo-nazis-east-german-village/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18886148

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1571608/German-police-routinely-ignore-racist-attacks.html

    Its rampant.
     
  16. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Well, the difference between now and the 90s is mostly in organization. There wasn't any less racism back then. The Harz mountains and towns like Halberstadt are hotbeds of Neo-Nazism. The number of actual, organized neo-nazis is pretty small compared to the actual population, though - however, a pretty big part of the population sympathizes with them.

    It's not that easy. Neo-Nazis exist in the west as well. The difference is, that in the East a significant part of the general population is okay with them, even if they don't identify themselves as far-right. Which has its roots in a completely different political culture in the East. East Germany was decades behind the West on some issues, like racism (you could easily live all your live in East Germany without ever seeing a foreigner, and East Germany in general was, despite all the internationalist propaganda, deeply xenophobic). There was no culture of political participation, self-organization or whatever. After reunification, the Neo-Nazis in the West saw an unique opportunity - they could actually establish grass roots organizations there. The invested there, ran community clubs and stuff like this, pretty much filling a vacuum for the people who had felt left alone.
     
  17. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    SV Wilhelmshaven are forcibly relegated due to a FIFA decision.
     
  18. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what is up with that?? It seems like an odd case. The money for the player doesn't seem to be that large so why doesn't Wilhelmshaven pay?? And the case is now 6-7 years old, isn't it?? It seems there must be more to the story than what Kicker said.
     
  19. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Can anyone highlighten me about this case, just in strokes?
     
  20. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Two Argentinian clubs are demanding 150k Euros in training compensation for a player Wilhelmshaven signed years ago. Wilhelmshaven refused to pay, and the case went to the courts. FIFA demands that the money is payed (and the German FA, as a FIFA member, is forced to follow their decision) - the demands are entirely based on FIFA rules, though, not civil law.

    150k is a huge sum for the Regionalliga. That's the entire annual budget of some clubs in the league. SV Wilhelmshaven's entire budget for last season was 250k euros (this includes wages for players and staff, travel, running costs for the club facilities etc.).
     
  21. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Training compensation for a player that trained at Wilhelmshaven or in Argentina?
     
  22. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    "Training compensation" is the name for the fees clubs have to pay to the clubs that educated a player:
    http://www.fifpro.org/legal/faq
     
  23. kgilbert78

    kgilbert78 Member+

    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    United States
    Dec 28, 2006
    Cowlumbus, OH
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then why is fifa allowing such a high sum? The guy was only there a year. And how do *two* teams get the money?
     
  24. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    That is probably the reason why the case has taken so long time to evolve.
     
  25. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Every club a player played youth football for gets a compensation, which is supposed to reflect the actual costs the clubs had. That happens in Germany too - if a Bundesliga club signs a player, his youth teams always get money. That's not unusual at all - the Argentinian clubs in this case demand much more money than German clubs usually get, though. However, the sports courts have already declared their demands to be justified.

    The reason it took so long is simply because Wilhelmshaven has refused to pay so far. They'll likely never pay anyway, the club will more likely fold and refound before this happens.
     

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