Do You Think MLS Will Ever Pass One Of The Big 3 American Sports?

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by jquintero10, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No abroad cares about MLS, just as they don't care about most leagues across the world. Even the French, Brazilian, Argentinian and Mexican league struggle internationally.

    It's true that major foreign interest would boost MLS, but you give no indication of how that's remotely feasible. How do you make people in Japan interested in MLS? People overseas are already watching other leagues, already supporting teams in those leagues. How do you make them ditch Barcelona and support Chicago Fire instead?

    And it still doesn't tackle the fact that you are grossly overestimating the amount of money you can make off TV overseas. Yes, if you are a massively popular league, you can make a fair bit of cash, but you cn only make that if you are already hugely popular. Everyone else gets peanuts. Even the Bundesliga only makes 10% of its tv money from overseas sales.

    Look at this graph and try to see just how hopeless off track you are in your thinking that overseas money drives the big leagues. It doesn't. With the exception of the premier league, foreign tv is a small player.

    [​IMG]



    By the way, these Japanese people that you speak to who tell you football isn't mentioned in Japanese papers. It doesn't seem true judging by these.
    http://www.tokyotimes.com/sports/
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/
    http://www.newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/morenews/Sports_News/
    http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/

    When did these people you speak to leave Japan?

    why don't you ask yourself why tv networks in any other country would do so?

    You just created a new variant of the underpants gnome, with your plan being...

    1) ???
    2) large overseas tv deal
    3) profit

    yes, but you are almost certainly fairly young and have no concept of the game existing before then. I've been to foreign countries before 2005. I've seen the support for Liverpool and Manchester United. I know from experience of encountering foreign fans before then, through various media, and the fact that those two grabbed the lion's share of attention, because they were England's most famous clubs.

    If it was just about the european cup win in 2005, support would be dropping like a stone now.

    And how much of that was due to overseas fans? You are astronomically overestimating the importance of overseas fans in generating revenue, as you've done throughout.

    Have you ever been to the far east? If you are sitting there thinking Manchester City have overtaken Liverpool in popularity, you just don't have the faintest clue.


    and the rest are still shit.

    But let's enjoy some quality Qatar football



    And they are crap too.
     
  2. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    tl;dr
     
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  3. HunterX

    HunterX Red Card

    Aug 24, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    the salary cap is the instigator for lower quality. The financial regulations also prevent MLS clubs from keeping academy players. Teams are only allowed to sign two HGP to competitive contracts. All others have to be given the minimum. So now MLS clubs are seeing some of their HGP being poached by other leagues. Whats wrong with giving the clubs the power over how many HGP they want to sign and what size contract they want to give them?

    the draft is an inefficient way to bring players into the league. Amateur players should be able to sign up with any club they want(and that wants them). All the draft is is an unnecessary barrier to entry to a pro career. Why should an 19 yr old kid from Texas be forced to start his pro career in New England? No other country does this. And the reason they don't do it is because its horribly inefficient and its unfair to players. The MLS draft seems to only exist just because other American sports have drafts. There's no good argument for it.
     
  4. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So people flipping the channels turn away from MLS because of the salary cap and the draft?

    Those are causes perhaps, but it's not why people don't watch or follow MLS (or any league). People want a quality they appreciate and, often, an emotional reason to follow. But don't go laying out the draft as the reason that LigaMX fans don't stop on the MLS game when they are looking for something to watch.

    Fans (at least the ones who aren't digging into the minutiae for their jollies) don't care about the draft, the salary cap, the minimum wages or the number of international slots available. They want a quality product and for many of them, MLS isn't it yet.
     
  5. HunterX

    HunterX Red Card

    Aug 24, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    People see MLS trying to structure itself like the NFL instead of it being more part of the global soccer world and I think it turns them off. So it's not just the draft, the salary cap etc. Those are just small parts.
     
  6. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would an NFL-like structure in MLS turn off American sports fans? The NFL is immensely popular with Americans.
     
  7. HunterX

    HunterX Red Card

    Aug 24, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    because they are very different sports? Because it goes against how the game is structured globally? Because the NFL system of college to draft to pro works for the NFL because the NFL is a monopoly but is a horribly inefficient system for soccer?

    I dunno..why do you think?
     
  8. Jewelz510

    Jewelz510 Member+

    Feb 19, 2011
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can make a case for that last sentence. But the first two are irrelevant. The sport being played on the field is seperate from the business that is putting that sport on the field. A successful business model will produce a successful sports league. Soccer isn't a special case compared to basketball or hockey or baseball. Secondly, when it comes to "how the game is structured globally," there is no one single way of structuring a soccer league. There are many different models being used around the world. Leagues will operate in the manner they feel works best for them in their domestic market.
     
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  9. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fewer silly mistakes happen because there's a lot less pressure on the ball. If you put MLS players in the QSL, they'd make fewer silly mistakes because there wouldn't be defenders breathing down their necks. And if you put QSL players in MLS, they'd make a lot more silly mistakes because opponents would be forcing them into mistakes. If you're just counting silly mistakes, then the EPL is one of the world's worst top division leagues... which we know isn't the case.

    Incidentally, we have a point of direct comparison: Danny Allsopp went from Al-Rayyan to DC United in 2010. He wasn't exactly impressive at DC. He scored more goals in his half-season with Al-Rayyan than in his full season with DC United.
     
  10. HunterX

    HunterX Red Card

    Aug 24, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    fair point

    but #2 somewhat ties into #3. If a draft was an an efficient way to get players into pro careers then the rest of the successful soccer world would have adapted it already.
     
  11. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It all comes down to infrastructure. The draft's not going away because it's the fairest way to allocate a large number of players who have no affiliation with any pro or semipro club. We're a big country without an extensive lower league structure. And even with MLS academies, and regardless of whether or not college soccer continues to be relevant, we're still going to have most rookies come into MLS with no prior affiliation. Most countries don't have that problem because they have much more extensive league structures.
     
  12. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But you're wrong. Guess where the primary method of getting players into both leagues is ? I'll wait.

    There are sub-cultures that are defined by each sport, absolutely ... but even then there is cross over. There also is, absolutely, an "American" take on sporting events/clubs/teams/fans/business/etc .... which is our own sporting culture.
     
  13. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And they don't have an NCAA structure that siphons away players and that prevents them from committing to clubs early.
     
  14. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And every one of those players elected to be in the draft (unlike NFL and NBA drafts). They have already negotiated a contract with MLS. If they aren't interested in the league, there are plenty of other options globally or they can play in USL or NASL.

    Getting wound up about the draft is a particularly silly activity. It's pretty obvious that it's no longer the key method for acquiring new talent for the league, and, with the rise of homegrown players, it will become even less so (perhaps to the point of elimination). It's a way, across all the leagues, to balance competitive forces and, frankly, to keep wages down. Since all these leagues have players' unions, they are more than welcome to negotiate to eliminate the draft if it's that critical to them.

    And, actually, having a draft is probably more efficient than having all college and HS players enter as free agents. Maybe it puts somewhere the player didn't want to be, but they had the chance to be evaluated by all the teams and make their preferences known.
     
  15. HunterX

    HunterX Red Card

    Aug 24, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    done waiting. It's the draft.
     
  16. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And is there really anyone out there who refuses to watch MLS, but would watch MLS if only it ended the draft?
     
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  17. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Does participation in college soccer programs prevent players from joining sports clubs outside of school hours?
     
  18. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, not automatically. They can be but it isn't a rule that they are.
     
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  19. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    In some cases, yes. Athletes lose their college eligibility if they play on clubs that include professional players.
     
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  20. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not entirely true:

    "Prospective student athletes must now provide much more extensive written proof that they have not received benefits beyond expense reimbursement from club teams. And those athletes who played on a team that included anyone else defined as a professional will face either sitting out games based on how often they played as a professional or being denied NCAA eligibility altogether."

    They've also, in the past, allowed players to play in college because they didn't get paid (happened a bit in basketball).
     
  21. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    How does that make what I said not true?

    I said that in some cases college athletes are prevented from joining clubs outside the university team. That is true. Sometimes they are allowed to do it so it must be "in some cases".

    I also gave an example of a type of club that they could not join. I was not being exhaustive on the restrictions but what I said was true.
     
  22. Antario2

    Antario2 Member

    Jan 29, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #1147 Antario2, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    Ah, that is a shame. Talented college aged players could benefit so much from facing strong opposition. Facing and training with adults in their mid twenties to early thirties presents a useful challenge for 16 to 20 year old youngsters who are used to dominate their age bracket.
     
  23. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I went off of this:

    "Athletes lose their college eligibility if they play on clubs that include professional players."
     
  24. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    #1149 newtex, Sep 4, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
    That is not true? That was my understanding. Are college soccer players now allowed to play with professionals?

    There are other restrictions but I thought that was true.

    You can play with professionals before you start college as long as you didn't get compensated yourself but once you start playing in college you cannot play on a team with professionals. Unless that has changed.

    Ah, now that I re-read things maybe that is the distinction that you were making. But the original question was about college players playing with clubs while they are in college.
     
  25. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone know the reasoning behind the ban on playing on the same team as pros?
     

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