The news on RE tickets sales got me thinking. What should the relationship between Team FO and its supporters group(s) be? Paying dues to the teams FO instead of to the supporter's club seems to cross that line. How cozy do the SOB elders want to be with the FO? What other SOB business is the FO "ORGANIZING" for "US"? Are we a supporters group or are we just the FO's lackies? Don't take this as a slight on the FO office, I think they have treated us very fairly, but I also don't think we should be snuggling so tightly. I always thought the SOB/FO was a little too cozy, but now I feel that the SOB is becoming the marketing wing of the FO if it already isn't. I know the criticism for my post already, "if you don't like it leave", "come to a tailgate and tell and elder", " your just a whiner, the elders walked over 50 miles of broken glass etc etc etc etc..... This is how I choose to communicate and in all reality the internet is how 99pct of SOB communication takes place. To those who are offended by this, you have a few choices, you can take a little criticism and discuss solutions or you can become defensive, go on attack. If you choose the latter, I can assure you that the growing indifference with the SOB's with only grow faster.
I feel the River End being open to non-SOBs helps make the relationship less close. Which is good, I think.
Are SOB members paying dues to the Union now or has the organization just worked out a deal for the team to collect dues on it's behalf?
I see the complete opposite (my definition is that SOB=official supporter groups not just SOB but SOB for short) because it undermines the organizing and movement of the fan groups. If you have people buying tickets that are not SOB/FG members and act out or act stupid or refuse to sing, chant, stand, it will kill the atmosphere and thus undermine whatever power/influence the supporter groups who sit there would have in dealing with the FO. As for what @local136RiverRat says, it is more clear to me now why places such as Argentina have so much problem eradicating violence, corruption, and just generalized non-sense from their supporter groups and that is because they are too tied in with their respective FO. They become the semi-official appendage of their FO and there is constant power struggles between the two. This could lead to the FO wielding more power over SOB, the aura of the SOB and how it operates by engulfing them into the FO propaganda machine. Thus making them semi irrelevant by weakening them and swallowing them up into the advertising wing of the FO. even if so, i feel they should be a separate entity. my opinion of course. I don't know if it has tax implications etc.
They are so unorganized in the accounting department that they need the team to collect our money? Or do they think that this will get them "MORE MORE MORE"? maybe they should be worrying how to make it better instead of being locked up in their castles avoiding their minions like the plague.
Looks like things are falling apart a little for the supporters section which starts with the fact that there needs to be a shot in the arm of the leadership. I'd like to see growth numbers, I bet after season 1 the amount of new memberships and renewals has dropped significantly. There needs to be someone up top that has some charisma and is vocal on a daily basis. The FO may be recognizing this and is taking over before the whole section implodes.
First, the more people in TRE the better, we need it to be raucus and intimidating. The thing hasnt sold out in over two years, so i dont know why we are hanging on to the "reserved" nature of it. Secondly, we are all assuming that non sobs will be disruptive, even violent. Who is to say that letting in some newbies wont get them hooked on the experience, and they pay to join anyway? i see that as the more likely scenario. Third, have you seen some of the people that come to the games? they arent exactly what i would call "street toughs". majority look like they have never played a sport or been in an altercation in their entire life, so i wouldnt exactly worry about them going all bad luck 13 riot extravaganza in the river end. i say welcome all- lets get more ruckus in there .
what if they are just there because is the cheaper seats? wasn't that part of the problem before/now when non-SOB bought tickets in the secondary market etc.
who cares why they are there, as long as they are there. I want that thing packed. I think if the eliteist aura comes off the whole thing, more people will participate
Seats are the same price for single games as the north end. They are only cheaper for Season Tickets. If you're willing to buy season tickets, I'm sure you're some sort of good fan who isn't there just because they are cheapest.
Buddah, i am not sure the cheap seats reasoning holds much weight. If it was true wouldn't TRE be the first to sell out? In reality it is the last to sell out.
now it is because you have to be an SOB member right? next year? sorry if I'm confused a bit. late in the day
it doesnt sell out because people think you have to be part of some secret soccer stonecutters society to get in it. I have brought 5 different people into TRE for the first time, and all of them are now season ticket holders and paying members who stand and sing every match. As soon as people realize you dont have to play green street hooligans to be included in the SOB, they start to embrace it. i had 5 season tickets to start this year, with me as the only paying member. The other people since joined, but the rule was there only had to be a member there with you.
Are you no longer able to pay your dues directly? Why automatically think there's some sort of alterior motive? Do you have a problem with SOB, the Union, or both?
My Problem is whether we are a supporters group or a group sponsored by the club that just mistakenly calls itself a supporters group. There has been more than a few things that make me wonder, but I always gave the benefit of the doubt. As for alterior motives, I don't think so. I just think it is a big mistake to keep giving up more and more control to the FO.
First if you are not currently a STH, come October 1 TRE will cost the same as the Seaport Drive End - $360/$25. Second - the FO agreed to give the SOB's a portion of the money from the season tickets sold in TRE in order to help the SOB's pay for tailgates, Tifo, road trips, etc. It also allows the SOB's to lower the membership dues. Another positive is getting more people to become members. Not all SOB Members sit in TRE either. There are members who are STH's in every section of PPL. The elders will be elected by the membership later this year. The SOB are a volunteer, not for profit organization. You want to see change? Volunteer to help out at a tailgate, or to help setup the Tifo in PPL. Help out at the charity events that benefit The City of Chester. Using the Internet as a soapbox will not cause things to change. It's like bitching about how you don't like what your local government is doing, yet never voting in election or volunteering your time to help makes your community better. Change doesn't come about by bitching on the Internet, it comes through actions. Thank god the Internet wasn't around in the 1700's, because the revolution probably wouldn't have happened........ Criticism is a necessary part of the process of evolution and improvement of people, organizations, and groups. I don't have any issues with people constructively criticizing methods or motives. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to research the facts and all sides of the story first.
so when RBNY supporters took front office money for trying to eradicate YSA, they were sellouts. when Seattle gets money from their FO to make ridiculous displays, its "corporate tifo". SOBs are in bed financially with the FO and its progress?
Agreed. I can half see the positives, but after talking crap an saying same things as quoted above, feels kinda hypocritical.
I don't like the idea of non SoBs sitting in TRE. Imo, there are already too many people that are sitting there to get trashed and that's basically it. Travis, the guy with the megaphone gets a lot of shite hurled at him because of what he does with the megaphone. People will try and start up any chant other than the one were currently singing just to be contrarian. I don't get it. I understand Travis can be a litte obnoxious sometimes with his chatter but people just take it way too far sometimes. Another thing I just don't get at all that I think could be an added problem with letting non SoBs in is the negativity toward the team. We stand and sing for 90 minutes, how does booing Danny Cruz or yelling out GADDIS YOU SUCK! fit in with that? I just don't get it.
I guess you haven't spent much time watching the news for the last decade, the internet and social media have been very powerful in fostering change. In fact, it is the same way that 99ct of us receive the very little communication we do receive from the SOB leadership. You are right, change does come from action, but it starts with ideas and the internet is as good a place as any to exchange and discuss ideas. Just like print was good for expressing ideas in the 1700's. Its just the evolution of communication. I am not sure why getting drunk or setting up a tent at the tailgates is a qualification for having an opinion, but it seems to be a popular opinion. Our President moved to Texas and doesn't show up at games, how is that any different than an SOB who can't make it because of a Job, kids, etc etc etc.? Maybe we have a new president, or an acting president that goes to games, but most of us have no idea because there is almost no communication. The FO agreed to give the SOB's a portion of the money? Or the FO offered to give a portion of the money? I don't really believe that was a plan designed by the SOB's. If the SOB's needs to get money from the FO it makes me wonder, and it should make the elders wonder about the direction the SOB's are heading. The FO isn't giving money out of kindness, They expect something in return, what are the expectations? As for researching all sides of a story, we can only analyze the facts we are given. I don't think it is a stretch to say that communication from SOB leadership has been lacking. To those that don't think that non-SOB's should be in the TRE, the problem is that there isn't enough SOB's to fill it. None of us rank and file SOB's have ever seen the numbers, (why aren't membership numbers and retention made public?) so I don't know if membership is up or down. I do know that the TRE seems to be increasingly disinterested.
While I do agree that allowing non-SOB members into TRE is not ideal as it should be filled with ardent SOB members who enjoy standing and chanting during the game. Unfortunately TRE is not currently filled every game and not everyone in there is willing to chant or chant in unison with the rest. Is it risky by the FO? Sure is, as there could be a less cohesive River End. It could also urge more SOBs to either move to TRE or by season tickets as after Oct 1 those seats will likely go quickly. As to adding the ability to pay members dues to the season ticket plan I look at it more like ease of use. As long as that money is going to the SOBs like they would if you renew through them then there is no issue with it and it actually should net the SOBs a tiny amount more per member. Reason is transaction fees, the Union are already handling a fee due to the tickets so adding the SOB membership does nothing. Also since SOBs are a NPO taxes shouldn't come into play.
but the Union are for profit, so giving the dues to the Union and then the Union giving them to the SOB doesn't affect it? honest question, I would figure it would be some sort of "conflict of interest" of sorts. you know what I mean?
I think the big thing that will happen next year is the sanitization of TRE. Now that there are regular ticket holders in there, its a great strengthening position by the FO to make sure *ckin mental and the like are eradicated from the setlist. That and perhaps the official separate legal entity of some sub-groups that were previously under the SOB banner. The latter is the real sad part, but as long as they actually support the team and get along hopefully it'll work.
SKC's supporter section is GA and seems to do well. I hate that team but I think its FO gets a lot correct. If the SOBs can't even fill TRE, why should the Union FO let them keep their private party?