US-Honduras, the coaching and the subs (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Hasn't he been clear enough in the past? He wants all the best players on the pitch. And by "best," he means starters playing consistently in a Top League (= in Europe), in a Top Club. If among those there happens to be 4 CMs, then so be it: play with 4 CMs. At least in that he's consistent. Although I have my doubts about Hoffenheim being Champions League class, but what do I know?
     
  2. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting that when we brought on Sacha and Zusi we lost 0-1 to Honduras from that point. ;)
     
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  3. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    And clearly the Russian goal was scored only because those three were on the field.
     
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  4. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Apparently correlation DOES equal causation.

    /sarcasm
     
  5. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very interesting point!

    Team............Venue..........Shape.........Result..........CM Players
    A&B...............home...........4-3-2-1.......W3-1...........Edu, Bradley, Jones
    Guatemala.....away............4-2-3-1.......D1-1............Edu, Bradley, Jones(AMR)
    Jamaica..........away............4-3-2-1.......L1-2............Dreads, Jones, Edu
    Jamaica..........home...........4-2-3-1.......W1-0...........Williams, Jones
    A&B................away............4-2-3-1.......W2-1...........Williams, Bradley
    Guatemala......home...........4-2-3-1.......W3-1...........Williams, Bradley
    Honduras........away............4-3-2-1.......L1-2............Williams, Bradley, Jones
     
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  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    This team needs more CMs!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And to expound on this point a bit, look at how Bradley treated Rico when he had to pull him--you could tell he didn't want to, took time to talk to him, really tried not to embarass him.

    Jurgen thinks you motivate players by throwing them under the bus in the press and absolving himself of any and all responsibility.
     
  8. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't watch the game (first time I've missed not having DirectTv), but several things baffle me.

    I understand the need to integrate new players into the lineup, particularly the back. But to start 4 guys in the back, all in their first WCQer together on the road in probably the second toughest game of the cycle just defies common sense. Put Boca in and pair him with Gonzo or Cameron, doesn't matter, and let him do the organizing and talking. Save the totally young backline for CR at home, a far less imposing opponent. Then put Boca back in for Mexico, get 4-5 points out of the first 3 games, and then slowly faze him out and coast into the world cup. He deserves that for what he's done for us anyway.

    Klinsmann's insistence on the 3 CM makes Bob's empty bucket look like the Spain midfield in comparison. It makes no sense. Play one of Jones/Edu/Williams, Bradley, and two wider players. Yes, I know that some younger wider players may not quite be ready, but that obviously doesn't concern him. Or drop Dempsey back and let him link up to Jozy/Gomez/Johnson etc.

    This is exacerbated more by playing a 4-3-3 (with 3 CMs! Really!)

    Someone touched base on this earlier in the thread, and I certainly don't want to raise a firestorm in our hyper-politically correct society with this, but does having so many "dual nationals" who really have no ties to our country other than their father's sperm, effect their passion? I mean, I know everyone wants (or should) want to play in a WC, but does it mean as much to someone who's mainly been in the USA to play soccer as it does to Howard, Dempsey, etc. I'm not saying that's the case, but that's the thing that makes international soccer beautiful, pride in your country. I think some of that may be lost with dual nationals with little ties to your country (regardless of which country it is.)

    I think the other thing is how Klinsmann treats his players. When Dempsey finishes 4th in POY voting on one of the smallest budget clubs in the EPL, that counts for something, and maybe more, than being more of a role player on a bigger club. Take other examples as well. If that's how he treats his players in public, what the heck does he say to them in private? Yes, I know they're professionals, but all of us have experienced bad bosses/coaches/teachers, and know that you're motivation isn't the same under them

    All I know is if we don't win against CR, we almost have to win out our last 7 games to make it. Yes, you can get there in the past with 16-17 points, but this is the toughest hex we've ever had. MLS has dramatically improved the entire region. If we have 1 or 0 points in our first 3 games, we'd have to win at least 5 remaining, probably 6. I'm not sure we've got our act together enough to do that.

    I miss Bob and his shiny head.
     
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  9. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I don't understand though. I do this in FIFA 12 all the time and all goes according to plan..

    :D
     
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  10. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A more even hex is more likely to mean a lower, rather than higher, point total to ensure qualification, I would think.
     
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  11. repin1836

    repin1836 Member

    Jan 26, 2006
    Houston
    I am sure that most people here have watched the studio 90 videos. Does anyone think that maybe we spend too much time doing yoga and swimming in pools as opposed to other teams which join up for the national team probably just play? Yes, stretching is important but don’t you think that that kind of stuff should be taken care of at the club level? You have four days together, you should be working with the ball all the time, as a team. Really, do you think England does yoga two days before game? I even think that that kind of stuff is maybe too relaxing and doesn’t prepare you for the game with limited time.
     
  12. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Honduras.... away....4-3-2-1.....D1-1.....Williams, Bradley, Jones
    Honduras.... away....4-4-2......L0-1.....Bradley,Edu,Saha,Zusi

    Sorry, the "3 DM's" is not the problem. We had that game within reach until we brought in more "offensive" players - lost our shape, exposed out already shaky back line.
     
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  13. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is one of my favorite memories of Bradley. I knew when I saw the line up that starting Rico was a mistake - the knot that formed in my stomach when I saw the graphic was horrible. Sure enough, disaster did strike. But when he pulled Rico, he talked to him right there on the field. He treated him exactly how any one of us would want to be treated if we screwed up. And I thought, "Wow, these guys would do ANYTHING for Bradley."

    We may not be the most talented soccer nation on earth, but if you get guys believing in each other and the coach...we can do incredible things. And we did, under both Arena and Bradley. Under Klinsmann...that kind of self belief, loyalty and spirit is no where to be seen.
     
  14. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

    Oct 14, 2004
    Luis Saha?
     
  15. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

    Jun 14, 2011
    Fantasyland
    :D
     
  16. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    This is the thing. If JK wants to say what he's said about Altidore, Dempsey and Donovan in private, then fine. That's his prerogative as a coach. Doing it in public is stupid and petty and smacks of a guy who thinks he's better than his charges.
     
  17. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Doesn't have anything to do with the point I'm making.

    I was posting about 433, primarily:

    --------------striker
    -------left wing right wing
    ---------8------------- 8
    -----------------6

    that was used against Brazil, Scotland, Russia and Honduras.

    The other implementations of a 6 and two 8s included 4312 with Dempsey as a trequartista at Slovenia in which the team shipped 2 goals. Lastly was the 4321 disaster at Jamaica in which the team again shipped 2 goals.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on whether other matches had that impementation.
     
  18. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    couldn't've hurt!
     
  19. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When you said the following which is what I responded to:

    Exactly what point were you trying to make?
     
  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I expanded on the point.
     
  21. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. The 4-3-X-X is our strongest shape especially if we have the FBs functioning effectively.

    We have not performed very well when we switch to a 4-4-2 flat shape.
     
  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Jamaica away, Slovenia, Hondura, Russia, Brazil, Scotland. That's what 13 goals shipped?

    Stick with 4411 for better cover.
     
  23. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    For a couple of reasons some of which are we pin Bradley and/or Jones back more, the 3 actually gives them more freedom to get forward without leaving us as exposed, and 2nd, if you push your outside backs on both sides and push your outside mids, you get caught up and spread very quickly.

    If you have LD and Demps out "wide" it is a different animal, since the difference in quality between Sasha + Zusi for example and LD + Demps is exponential, and does not favor the former.
     
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  24. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Playing narrow places the extra burden on the backline. Doesn't matter who is up top.
     
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  25. MtMike

    MtMike Member+

    Nov 18, 1999
    the 417
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A Backline which doesn't need any extra burdens right now.
     

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