As LeVin mentioned, a loophole is just waiting to be exploited by the very wealthy and privileged which is what the average korean I think is most concerned about. 31 is still within potential key playing years... its where PJS is at now and one could imagine someone like Ki who is less reliant on speed / endurance to be able to produce well into his thirties and cause us consternation still when they hang up their boots to do military service. I guess one could imagine a special committee to grant these exemptions but they'd have to consider many sports beyond football and would still be liable for corruption.
What I'm suggesting is no special treatment for anyone, just give everyone the chance to serve at a later point in life...up to a reasonable age, and with good reason of course. And stop sending people off to social services. For God's sake, how does removing a drunkard from subway stations and cleaning up after them help the security of the nation any? Some of these more ridiculous alternative services should be eliminated. As a fleeting thought, there should be the caveat that if you delay service, you gotta go active service, no alternative services, and get shortlisted to fill the T/O on some lonely sh*thole. That would be getting more agreeable to the general public.
Skimmilk: word. no one wants a loophole. Age 31 - right - I think I meant to say age 35-36 could be an arbitrary cutoff (key word -arbitary). And on the hypothetical committee, corruption could be a potential problem -perhaps if the process/application from player X from start to finish could be designed as transparent and open to the public as possible, that might limit scope of corruption. LeVin: no special treatment/give everyone chance to serve at a later point in life up to a reasonable age -- yes yes and yes -that's what I'm talking about! This could be tailored so the general Korean public can find that agreeable - this is giving me hope people! And now what the f**# am i still doing up? I'm dead for work tomorrow....
Professional athletes with a certain potential (for example, eligible for KNT) should be exempted from military. Being a professional athletes playing at that level is not within everyone's capabilities, it's kind of "special". I don't think the ROK army will run low on soldiers by exempting it's promising talents. They don't represent that much of the society. This is just my two cents.
again, you risk of other special interest groups asking why aren't they considered 'special' and worthy of exemption
It's not that hard to decide. Athletes bring medals for the country, they shine for the country. I think that's special enough. Plus, they already did some exemptions back in the days (Park Ji sung, etc..), that is also special treatment. And the comparison stands, no everyone can make it to the semi finals of the WC. Well not everyone can be a pro player shining for the country. I can't think of any other groups that would claim to be equally special. Just make it an athlete exception.
Alright, if it's really that simple, do define what athletes, competing in what sports and what competitions qualify that could be used to define special talent in the law. Give it some serious thought and see if that's really easy. I'll give you one example of a sport with enough power/prestige/sway in Korea to sink pro-athlete playing abroad definition and generally makes things a living hell to define exemption law. Archery.
Lee Keun-Ho after winning AFC Asian Player of the Year award last night told media he supposedly has no regrets in joining Sangju army team (that's been relegated next year to KLeague2). Then the KNT midfielder had this to say: When asked about joining a European team, Lee said "definitely not now" but he admitted it would be a "dream" for any player. "I (would) prefer to play in Europe. Anywhere I will be is fine as long as I can play in Europe," he said. http://sports.ndtv.com/football/news/item/199997-lee-keun-ho-insists-no-regrets-over-military-move Bottom Line: Lee Keun-Ho, excellent midfielder for KNT, 2012 Asian Champions League MVP, winner of the Asian Player of the Year award, about to play in the FIFA Club World Cup (possibly against Chelsea if Ulsan beats Monterrey), and next year: Sangju army team - permanently relegated to KLeague2. As potential cultural 'sports' ambassadors if you will, if you look at Lee's case -something can and should be done. Whether it can is still up in the air.
Do you know how impossible it is to get on the KNT for Archery? And for archery, if they're good enough to make it on the team, they WILL earn military exemption. And some prefer to be in a military officer. This isn't like Qaddafi's son cavorting around as a "footballer". Set the standard at making the NT at an elite level of any international competition sport and you are talking about true special talents. The only exception I see is curling. But even then, so what? If they are that good and can earn an Olympic medal, then by all means they should be exempt for all the hours they put in to perfect their craft and bring us medals.
Yes I know the standard of archery is high, and the competition for the national team is tougher than the actual medal competition. That's why I'm saying IF the Archery Association voices complaints over favoritism issues on football/baseball players who haven't medaled getting military exemption, it would quickly complicate the issue and turn many public opinions against it.
Actually, they're looking into privatizing Sangju Sangmu to make it eligible for promotion by next season. So who knows, maybe we'll see LKH back in K League after a season.
That would be an interesting development. Still, I think few would argue his talents would be better served honing skills abroad -europe obviously is his preference - then helping out the KNT come int'l tournaments, be it WC or AC. At age 28, he's got only a limited amount of time. Hey Geseki! I'm all for it. What I don't know is which would be more effective - a worldwide petition or individuals worldwide sending in letters in a coordinated fashion. and yes, I know naysayers may dismiss this as futile, but I'm a kinda optimistic person and I think anything is possible. Which action might you be inclined to take part in? (and I'm steeling myself in case you say neither)
Petition from a bunch of draft-dodgers with foreign passport on the issue of military draft. I can only see fire and brimstone at the end of it.
Exactly. The squad for 2014 has no excuse because it'll be on our soil. Of course, the KFA will be the usual gutless punching bag and refuse to return the favor on the 'home-advantage' tactics employed by our other Asian oppositions, but the home crowd will make up for that.
I'd rather we act with class then resort to Iranian style tactics. Big teams rise above that nonsense (KFA, JFA and Australia).
Hey LeVin, how did you find out I'm a draft dodger, hiding in fear and luxury in the US? Damn, time to own up, go back and do my time. F*#) I wish I was a secret footballer, then I could join LKH in Sangju (-and get his autograph or something). J/K. ok just to clear something up, I'm a 2nd gen Korean American. I didn't even get a chance based on my parent's choice to emigrate to even decide to draft dodge. A friendly reminder that we can talk about this issue in a civil way. You might not be dissing me personally, and I didn't take any offense - but in case there are people here who actually did draft dodge (.0002%), let's try to avoid name calling. The diaspora of Koreans across the world may have more influence than any of us here realize. If you dismiss that, fine, we can agree to disagree. You may be right though about your 2nd sentence -at the end of the day there may be some in S Korea that won't look kindly to any kind of movement to address the issue head on in a constructive way. Not much anyone can do about changing some people's minds on that. Earlier, we did find common ground -that KNT players who haven't earned exemption thru WC / Olympic medals, should still be allowed some temporary exemption (so long as they serve after their best playing years are done). A way of approaching the issue that is palatable could move the conversation in Korea in a positive direction. I am hoping that there is a slim majority who do favor sensible action to prevent players like Lee Keun-Ho from wasting time in Sangju. I don't think this is controversial to say, it doesn't serve in the best interests of S Korea to let LKH and others to drop their competitive form in a relegated division to play football for Sangju. That situation just isn't logical and I think most people here feel the same. Back to my 'slim majority' guess-timate - if it exists, then either a mass letter writing campaign or mass petition could garner attention and reform (in whatever form it takes) could gain traction. And don't get me wrong - there's a chance such a campaign might utterly fail. But then again, instead of bitching and complaining about Japanese players numbers growing exponentially in europe and then taking their honed skills to the JNT while the LKH's of Korea playing KLeague 2 ball, I'm just saying, something could be done about it. Obviously based on some reactions, not everyone agrees with me, esp on the petitions idea - and that's ok. Me: letter writing or petitions isn't fun or sexy and it's super nerdy but like eating spinich -it's good for you. Practicing active citizenry, savvy? Can BSK do internal polling? I'll drop the subject if most people don't favor or don't believe anything can be done about it (did I just hear someone saying thank god? ouch).
Well I was having a dig at myself with the draft-dodger bit, but if anyone took offense, I don't really care either way. At the end of the day, that's what people like us will come across as if you choose to get involved in the draft issue, and Korean men will--and quite rightfully so, in my opinion--burn you at the stake.
I don't mean to be too preachy on this issue, but let's again just remind ourselves that many of us here, like me, are probably not duty-bound to serve in the Korean military, and are outsiders in the issue. Respect the sacrifices made by ALL able-bodied Korean men, who all do have their own plans for life, that rarely involves 2 year service in the military, and approach the topic with same respect. On the petition business, again, I only see negative publicity if it comes from a group of people like us, hurting, rather than helping, the very group of athletes we'd like to see succeed.
I remember someone saying this about PCY but LKH at 35 would make a far effective soilder then a 20 year old starcraft fanatic.
I think technically many of us 2nd gen are draft dodgers based on family registry and not formally rejecting Korean citizenship and all that
Hey I feel you, all respect to the service - no arguments from me. And yeah, I can see yr point on how the petition could backfire. I concede to you that there is a % chance/risk that it could hurt the issue as it's perceived in Korea. A hypothetical petition from Koreans abroad however could start w/ the premise that everyone is acknowledging the time/dedication/sacrifice many Koreans, past&present did for their country thru their 2 yrs time in military - then w/ respect to that - advocate that as 'loyal outsiders' that for the sake of country (add in that we're falling behind competitively w/ Japan) a temporary exemption and transparent process be instituted for certain athletes -then as it pertains to footballers, roughly age 35-36 or whatever age Lee Young-Pyo decides to hang up his boots, that they return and serve in a productive capacity in the army -or in Sangju as a player/coach. Whew. Dont show that last sentence to my grammar teacher. Hella run-on - now going on the premise that you are absolutely right -that any outsider petition could -as you put it - jeopardize the very athletes we'd like to see succeed - --could the only way for positive movement happen is if a critical mass of SKoreans raise a ruckus on this? Holy F#&#, if there was a group of S Korean veterans who were huge KNT fans advocating for flexibility on the issue ...and...it moved! (well then, I can toss that carton of viagra now) Idk, are there any SKorean vets in BSK who have any opinion on all this?