News: Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 4

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Sep 2, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He's not as good as Raheem Sterling who is only 18 years old!
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Depressing to see how our talents struggle to win against Swedish sides and mediocre Spanish sides.
     
  3. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yeah. Supporters from other Dutch clubs owe a big thank you to Ajax for saving face for Dutch football.
     
    he so scrumptiouz and Orange14 repped this.
  4. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  5. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Ola John started and scored in the 8th minute. It also appears that he was their corner taker. Anyone been watching him there? Is he a candidate for a call up?
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I have seen the whole match. Wanted to see Juve vs Cheslea, but had to do my duty :).

    Dutch reports on football site's claim he had a very good game, but that is way too much credit. He had a fine game. That's I think the way to put it.

    First the "negative points" I would like to bring forward:

    • My main problem with Ola is his speed. Now he has speed. Like Jetro Willems has speed. Like Afellay has speed. However he is not in that category where he roasts his opponents and walks past them. He was faster than his defender at Celtic, but again not enough to really get past him. He has like 4 gears, but he misses that fifth gear or let me say, he misses the turbo button. I felt with 2 or 3 turnover situations a winger should have created a bit more danger than Ola did. Simply by running harder or past a final defender and go for the killer pass. You do get that with Robben, who can run through a defense.
    • Sometimes looked as if he did not know what the next action was he had to carry out. There where game situations he looked a bit clueless as what was expected from him. There were also some miss passes from others to him and visa versa. 2 passes to Cardozo and one time he went deep in a key moment (IMO) while his fellow player passed the ball to the spot he just left for. This all has to do with communication and a part of that I put on his plate (the other half on the plate of his fellow players).
    • He went at times weak into personal battles, where he was supposed to defend. Not going for that header battle to win the confrontation, rather feint he would jump and look where the ball comes. Not really sticking out his foot to win a ball. Bit soft.
    • He did lose the ball at times in a stupid way. I think that a winger is allowed to do that, as they often have to take a little extra risk and that comes with a price at times. However some of his passes lead to potential danger and that is better to evade in the future.
    Positive points:

    • I was most impressed with his corner delivery and especially with the consistency of them reaching a high level delivery every time. Maybe at times too close to the keeper, but it felt to me he was even aiming to get it at certain danger zones in front of goal. I'm not saying he can differentiate his corners like Roger Federer can serve a ball anywhere he wants, but I definitely had the feeling one or two times he did certain variants that where prearranged and he was able to follow up to those arrangements. Like a ball he hit to reach the second post on Luisao. Then he did a few shorter. Then a few normal ones. His delivery from corners is just really good and it also speaks for him, he can already take them.
    • His delivery from an action is also often good. Even when it was bad, by accident it ended up to a teammate somehow. One ball I felt Cardozo really should have done better with. Could easily have been an assist from that ball.
    • Ola John can deliver with left and right and can go inside and outside and also can choose to do some position games on the field or even go for a through pass rather than put in an action and cross from that. He just is very versatile.
    • I think Jesus has installed the message with him that he has to defend. Though he does not defend well, he does track back, forcing the opposition to make other decisions, that create less danger. Rather than being able to go into open space in front of them at the right side, they need to pass it wide as Ola came back.
    So generally speaking not a bad game. He scored a goal and is generally speaking quite effective. This last word is the point in case vs Elia (his opponent as Robben is out of the discussion when fit according to van Gaal). Lens is also used as left winger, but from history with PSV we know he does not operate well on the wings. Many managers misuse him on the wing and will continue to do so (to some extend same case as Anita), but he should specialize and force the manager of the next club to use him as a striker. Lens is also right legged and only for some players van Gaal wants to divert from his mantra that a left legged player has to play on the left and a right legged player on the right. Lens has been effective so far for Dutch NT, but I doubt he will continue to be that on the wing. Against Belgium he was plain bad for example and also to blame for the final goal, not tracking back on Vertonghen. Back to Elia. One has to look at his stats at the moment. He has after 12 appearances in Bundesliga for Bremen only 1 assist and 0 goals. His key pass rate is proper, but one might expect a bit more from Elia (who is also tracking back well at the moment). Ola in the few games so far for Benfica as he only recently is enjoying the trainers trust has often done something like an assist or goal, both in CL or the league. In Eredivisie Ola also had a ridiculous assist number if you figure it was his first real year in the competition.

    However we must also look at the players Dutch NT is having and how they could connect with what winger. Ola and Huntelaar must be a golden match. I don't like Huntelaar, but Ola on the left and him in the striker position is even for me something to look forward too. Every team outside of the FIFA top 20 will potentially be flat track bullied by that duo. I mean Luuk de Jong is not even a very good header and he could become top scorer from feeding off from Ola. Huntelaar is one of the best in the game of today, of it comes to headers or just general box intelligence.

    So on basis of the previous points and this last more anticipating chemistry story I would like to see Ola 60 minutes in the game with Huntelaar as a striker against let's say Estonia, who is our next opponent in the group. Exactly the kind of match I would like to see them together. Before that game we play against Italy in a friendly somewhere in February and that is not a game I would fancy them.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You missed a good match. It could have easily been 6 0r 7 - 0 had Juventus a proper striker. They really play good attacking football and are bringing the 3-5-2 back to prominence. They are a fun team to watch.
     
  8. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I could only watch the first half of Juve - Chelsea since I had a game to play myself. But I'm glad to see Juve won. It's always nice to see positive football get rewarded. Unlike that horrible formation Chelsea fielded. With just 3 good footballers and the rest orientated towards defending.
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^Juventus play some of the most attacking football in all of Europe. A really big change from the Juve teams of old!
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Pretty much what we have been saying is underscored by Domenech who was in charge of the French NT:

    Source






    The reason why Robben started to underperform at Bayern or started to be less of himself, is this guy Ribery. He's an instigator and with him he got some buddy's at his side like Muller and maybe Kroos putting pressure on Robben. When van Bommel was at Bayern they could do nothing, but when he left they started to work on his nerves and it all revolves around Ribery being such a jealous person. I clearly remember the moment they jumped on him to benefit from the situation. It was when Robben came back from another injury last year, but unlike other times could not get to his level quickly. German papers also started to add, the Bayern fans have never properly defended him, clearly portrait in that one friendly between NT and club before the Euro. Still very ealry one could identify that it was Ribery who orchestrated most off the pressure on Robben. The man has wonderful football ability himself, but he can't share the spotlight with somebody else. The low point was the clear lack of respect for Robben by knocking him to the ground. Management asked some pocket money from Ribery as "punishment" IIRC. All the hate towards Robben is the root of the missing penalty's. Anybody looking back at Robben's penalty ability at Bayern will see that it was actually pretty damn good. It was the mounting pressure from multiple angles that got under his skin, made him unhappy and eventually miss the big penalty in the CL and before that against Dortmund. In the end, all these people got what they deserved for not protecting Robben. Without CL title and country title. I feel only very bad for Robben as he got double punishment. His ambition not manifested and had to take much of the blame.

    I think Dutch NT is so blessed with the Donald Duck face of Robben. Few players I have liked more than Robben. I don't blame him for the loss of the WC. Maybe I blame RVP, but Robben was our only man able to pull it off together with Sneijder. I don't get mad at the guys making the difference all the time, but failing against a top keeper. I get mad at the players who could have made the difference for us once, but failed to make impact yet again. back to Robben. There are players who can't come back after only a few injury years. Robben has been injured right from when he is born. He is a born injury in fact. My theory on that is his many bike hours as a young kid. He grew up in a small village in the north. For school he had to cycle a lot of kilometers from home and back every day. Cycling builds certain muscles in the legs that are not that good for playing football. Now, not everybody doing that evolves into a walking injury, but Robben also must have had a born weakness in this regard. Also many injury's are at his knee, so this story covers only a part of his injuries maybe. However I remember how at FC Groningen at 17 he already reached in pain to the back of his upper leg as a result of another injury. All these injuries would make you think he had turned into the character "Elijah Price" from the movie "Unbreakable" and go insane, but Robben almost always comes back so well and having this twinkle in his eyes when he can play football. Just think of all the cases where players say they still have to come back from injury to get to their old level. This has never really been a problem with Robben. Fans love to sit on the emotional chair of a player and talk about how tough they have it, to have a player like him in the team. With van Persie we had during the summer transfer time the Arsenal jokers playing the "we stood by him with all his injuries" -card, not realizing their club has the worst injury record of all EPL top clubs and probably limited RVP's rise to the top in significant ways by having an incompetent medical staff. The more injuries Robben gets the more amazed I am about this player and his ability to come back. Have I ever seen a player with a stronger mentality in this regard? Probably not. He's such a champ. Just imagine his career without injury's.

    Anyway, Domenech has come clear and portrait the Ribery character pretty well. I hope Robben can enjoy himself this year despite Ribery and despite his injuries.
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Robben has very poor biomechanics when you see him run. I really think his problems are from a lack of back flexibility and do not think cycling is responsible for this. He really needs a good Yoga program to promote flexibility. That being said, I agree with you; Robben is just one of the really good NT players who comes to play each match for both club and country.

    Regarding the WC, it would have been nice had he scored on that break away but remember Casillas is just one of the 2 best keepers in the world. Also Van Persie had been injured much of the club season following the friendly with Italy in December when Chiellini challenged him (it was a fair tackle to my eyes but an unfortunate one for Van Persie) and probably was never in the best of shape for the WC.
     
  12. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Marco Branca says Sneijder will not play for Inter until he makes a decision over his future at San Siro.

    The Nerazzurri director has revealed that negotiations have opened with the player in a bid to alter the terms of his current contract, but as yet the Netherlands international has not responded to the club's proposal.

    "We need to modify his current contract. He and his entourage have to decide what they want to do about our proposal," Branca told Sky.

    "Sneijder will not play until he makes a decision about his contract."

    The 28-year-old has missed a large portion of the season with a thigh injury - suffered in the 2-0 victory over Chievo back in September - but now looks set for an extended period of absence.

    Inter next face Parma on Monday at Stadio Ennio Tardini in a match scheduled to kick-off at 21:00CET, as they bid to keep up the pressure on league leaders Juventus.
     
  13. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I once saw a Dutch specialists in a documentary explaining how cycling was making the muscles fragile for the movement in football. In these days they also have all those training bikes they use before going on the field to warm up their muscles. The man advised other types of training to strengthen the muscles. I don't know. One could argue that these days he has a training schedule that counters as many injury's as possible. I thought it was interesting and I connected it with Robben and the cycling he had to do in his youth. I think his biomechanics are very bad indeed.

    RVP also fluffed that first touch against Denmark. Unacceptable. He has failed pretty hard until now. His goal vs Germany was meaningless (but quite good). I remember his goal against Ivory Coast and Italy as being important. However that's 2006 and 2008 and back then he was not the carrying player and could operate in the shadow of others. I hope that he breads a top mentality at United as for now he has been pretty disappointing for Dutch NT IMO.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Name me one up and coming player from the Netherlands who can do what Isco just did a few hours ago:

    [​IMG]


    Maher? Nope. Thinks he is the man after a no look pass or when he is able to pass the ball a few times fast between both feet against Heracles and score from close range. This is another level of of football and Isco is Spain's new generation.
     
  15. KPSmit

    KPSmit Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    New York
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    And, maybe if he passed, he wouldn't have gotten himself in that situation to begin with. Not to discredit what he did, which was awesome, but what is your point? Why post this in here? Stop freaking out about our 'future' and worry about our present.
     
  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He got closed down very fast. I think his solution was spot on. Also a pass would have gone back, while he ends up with an attacking intention, bringing penetration to the game. Besides these moments show what a player has under the car hood and I liked to focus on that.

    Spanish players where never really better than the Dutch players. Yet now we see a second generation standing up with a skill level you can only love. I think the education levels are raised and if we want to win a WC, we have to improve or we can be happy with where we are. Van Gaal and the KNVB have by the way finally made the same point as this community here:

    KNVB luidt de noodklok.

    Good point. I will also post it in my other started thread and we can discuss it there further.

    I raise awareness, you do the freaking. You might also want to reconsider your advise. Your line of thinking collides with the purpose of a forum frequently.
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    • I think from the Saturday games I am most happy with the 90 minutes Ola John got. He was not good in the second half, yet the manager left him on the field. That was greater to see than him having a proper first half. Apparently he build himself some credit and maybe Jesus sees him as a player that can chance games with 1 brilliant action.
    • Dost on the score sheet again. Since Magath is gone, he is rolling and doing what he is does best. Score goals.
    • RVP had a quiet game.
    • Vlaar had to go off at the Villa-Arsenal game. However he did proper. He is at a side that will have to fight off relegation and a lot of defending situations are thrown at him every game. I also thought he was good against United, despite his unlucky own goal (nothing he could really do about that). Hope he is not seriously injured.
    • Huntelaar has scored finally again for Schalke. Looked very happy with that. The big question is what is he going to do next. Staying or going. He has now enough experience to make a good club decision after Madrid and Milan.
    • Van der Wiel played 73 minutes for PSG. Hope he can finally win the battle for right back.
     
  18. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Ginkel and Clasie neither. Don't single out my guy. ;)
     
  19. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Au contraire, in this context he is put forward as the best we have, in the discussion of having an outside chance pulling this off :thumbsup:.

    Clasie and van Ginkel did not occur to me, though van Ginkel could be brought into the discussion also.

    That's the future Dutch NT midfield right there by the way. Clasie, Maher and van Ginkel. Light years away in technical skill level from what Isco showed in that clip or in fact every week.
     
  20. Achaboy from feyenoord:):inlove:
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It annoys me how pundits continuously emphasize that our league is "nice" and "entertaining". They generally show an inward looking stance and that will not bring us forward.
    The call for more 'manlike' and 'tough' football is the same thing; apparently they don't watch La Liga at all.
     
  22. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well people must have fun, for otherwise they don't go anymore to the stadium and pundits serve their own cause also, as people need to keep tuning in or buy sport papers.

    I am not a true purist by the way. I can enjoy a good tackle or some running with the ball where simple passing would have been more efficient. It just appeals to me. I see it as another ingredient or flavor in a big dish called a football match.

    That having said, I understand your point and yes we need to focus on players acquiring greater technical skill. The difference between the best Dutch up and comers and for example the Spanish ones in this dimension has become pretty damn big. Spain just lost by the way the final of the indoor world championship football against Brazil. Some more hours spend with indoor football might greatly benefit raising more technical players.

    Or building those Dortmund arena's next to all the existing Cruyff courts might do the trick. :thumbsup:
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    You made also a plea a while ago for harsher refereeing because it might benefit the skill level and gives skill a chance above power.

    I'm also not happy to see that the best technical talents of Ajax are imported Danes.

    Those arenas or indoor football is nice for guys older than 15 but the real difference is made between the age of 4 and 12, roughly.
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What I love about Van Gaal his reaction is that he did not start about philosophy and his typical "I know everything" stance but that he sees it is also a matter of money. The Bosman ruling and television boom has generated load of money for the riches and those also invest a bit in their development programmes. On top of that, the German government has the money to spend a lot. Plus, those big powers can come away with drug practices - it has always been like that.

    It is however problematic that apparently also Denmark and Czech Republic are overtaking Holland according to Allach. It was stupid to share your knowledge with these countries. To keep ahead of these it is instrumental to start at a young age.
     
  25. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm not so sure that this is entirely true. Remember Eriksen came to Ajax at age 16 so some of his development is attributable to the club as well. Alderwiereld came in a little earlier and same thing holds. de Jong is technically very good but lacks quickness to become a better than average player. Same thing can be said about Blind. Vermeer is technically excellent except for his kicking (yes, I know he is a keeper but still has to be rated in terms of technical ability). We don't know yet how Fischer will evolve and Boilesen has been injured more than he's been healthy. Lukoki could become something special because of his speed but needs to figure out the mental part of the game. van Rhijn is already a starting fullback on the NT.
     

Share This Page