The Middle Class Blames every one but themselves

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by DoctorD, Aug 23, 2012.

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  1. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

    Sep 29, 2002
    MidAtlantic
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
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    United States
    Interesting article from Jordan Weissman in The Atlantic.

    I agree with this. Far too many people overextended themselves in the 2000s. OTOH, expectations of financial improvement were created in the 1945 - 1975 timeframe that were simply unrealistic. As Fukuyama points out, US family incomes crested in the 1970s. So people were just trying to achieve the same improvements in their standard of living that their parents did.
     
  2. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
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    United States
    Agree to a degree, the middle class has plenty of blame it needs to accept, but as a whole, they didn't fully do it to themselves
     
  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Glad you posted that.

    The middle class = small business owners. Both of 'em are self congratulatory, think the country (and planet) should revolve around them, and expect perpetual ass kissing from politicians. Both of 'em are constantly annoyed because despite all the ass kissing, the politicians don't actually do very much for them, as they serve (respectively) the top 1% and the large corporations instead. And finally, both of 'em aren't too bright, because they never quite sort out that latter bit and keep voting in politicians who sweet talk them during the campaign and then blow them off once elected.
     
  4. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I call bullsh*t on such a simplistic answer. There are many causes why the middle class has shrunk, most of them purposeful. The decimation of unions to favor corporations and the massive amount of $ in politics to keep it that way, globalization, the rise of the financial sector supposedly to help the middle class, tax cuts going to people who don't need them. In such a scary new "normal" I don't blame the middle class for doing what they can to hang on to a semblance of a decent life in the "richest country in the world"

    This poster sg77 in that article summed it up pretty well:

    It isn't just money - it's power. That's concentrated at the top now to an alarming degree (along with the nation's wealth) so one can understand why the middle class feels helpless.

    To a large degree, they are. Most of us make absolutely no corporate decisions, at least not on the higher levels; we can't control our so-called Congress; we might be 100% anti-war but have no say in the matter, we would like the rich to pay their taxes but we have no control over this.

    We didn't vote for Reaganomics, etc, and we didn't automate everything in sight, ruin key American industries and offshore all our jobs or replace them with part time contract labor.

    In fact a lot formerly middle class people are now poor people, despite hard work, honest effort, competence and good education and skills.
     
  5. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL


    And the middle class supported pretty much all those causes, either directly or not. The middle class ate up Reaganomics. The middle class joins with the union bashing. The middle class voted in Scott Walker, and refused to recall him.

    The middle class has eagerly participated in its own demise.


     
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  6. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
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    I'm generally with the guy that CP quoted, but "we didn't vote for Reaganomics" isn't quite how I remember it.
     
  7. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    As someone pointed out about the 1970's. Beyond that the middle class went to two working adults per household, delayed this eventual point.

    Coupled with easing of/extending credit to these households (Hey, everyone should have a house, just not a 3,000 sf house with marble counters and bathrooms). And their accepting easy credit.

    Oh, and health costs increasing double digits practically every year for the last 20 years.

    Passing traditional benefits onto the employee has taken from household income. Funding a large portion of your own health insurance and retirement etc.

    Plenty of blame in all directions.
     
  8. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Yup. As you know, Reagan-Carter was my first Presidential election. I was from a family trying to be middle class, but not quite there. Tough times.

    And my vote for Carter was cancelled out by all those true middle classers who flocked to Ronnie. The union guys who owned the house and two cars (my family rented a crap house in a crap neighborhood and had a single $600 beater). The union guys liked the fact that Ronnie might take unemployment benefits away from slackers like my mom.

    Well guys, you got what you voted for. Hope you enjoy the taste.
     
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  9. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Feeling a bit bitter today?
     
  10. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Nah. Just being a bit dramatic in making the point. Call me a diva.

    But the point is real. The rich play off one party against another. The middle class has been happy at times to line up with the rich and be the aggressor. Let's get the welfare queens. Let's get the government workers. It's not so happy when it's the one taking the beating. But hey, lie with a dog, you catch fleas.
     
  11. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I remember it too - "You gonna be some kinda f@g and vote for Carter or get America working again and wave the flag high?" A B actor who was senile for most of his second term. People are right, we get what we deserve.
     
  12. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Fair enough.

    I think one problem is what we now define as needs. Most people I know call cell phones, cable, credit card debt, car loans and eating out daily as needs.
     
  13. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    "OMG, poor people have tvs, credit cards and cells! Next thing you know they're going to want cars to get to work." A lot of them don't have land lines, big deal. It's to make poor people feel guilty about actually having something in their lives.

    I remember Fox Newz resident asshat Neil Cavuto on Good Morning America back in '08 after the recession began pooh-poohing it by saying "well all the restaurants that I patronize are packed, Diane. And Yankee Stadium was full the other day."
     
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  14. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    That's partly it, the other part is that things have changed. Technology has declined so much in price that the poor (or at least, lower middle class) can afford what once were luxury goods, and not very long ago at that.
     
  15. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nor I. It sort of reminds me of how various Congresscritters complained loudly that the US Olympic team's uniforms for the opening and closing ceremonies were made in China, while never uttering a word about their role over the years in help to make that happen.
     
  16. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Reagan proved that modern marketing in politics is really effective. I recall Dubya Bush's "compassionate conservatism." I'm sure it used to make Texans who knew and saw him fry 150 people in the chair roll on the ground in laughter. But people in Minnesota and Ohio knew nothing about that. They saw George Bush's son, how bad a guy could he be?
     
  17. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All you need to know about George W. Bush can be summed up in his "ranch":

    He bought his "ranch" in 1999, not before he first ran for Governor in 1994, or when he ran for re-election in 1998. Why in 1999? Oh, I don't know, probably something to do with something that would be happening in 2000, something in which he would have to convince the voting public that he wasn't an effete patrician who attended prep schools and Harvard and Yale, and was no more a regular hardworking man of the earth than his opponents in 2000 and 2004 were.

    And since it was a prop, OF COURSE it was located near Waco. Sheeeeeeeit, you wouldn't want it in the Hill Country, where LBJ had his place. Much too picturesque, what with the rolling hills and streams. No, you want unpicturesque land full of scrub and mesquite. It's better for the rubes elsewhere in the country to think that he's from somewhere harsh and unforgiving.

    And of course, now that he's out of office, where do you think he lives? Exactly the same place he spent his time before he first ran for governor: In Dallas.
     
  18. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that whole "Poor people today have non-essential items" line is misleading, anyway. To be poor doesn't mean you can't ever afford to buy the same sort of cheaply-manufactured consumer goods that just about everybody else owns. It means that you're constantly living on the edge. You don't have health insurance. You own a car, but it's not reliable and you live in constant fear that you won't be able to pay the next repair bill--and then you won't be able to get to work. You live paycheck to paycheck, and have no savings to dip into if an emergency arises. And you sure as hell don't have good credit.

    You're constantly struggling to keep one step ahead of bills and expenses. Just because once you were able to afford a freaking flatscreen TV doesn't change any of that.
     
  19. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True, but most of what you describe relates to the ignorance of the middle class, and part of the blame for that goes to our educational system that doesn't seem to promote much actual critical thinking, and a media that's far more concerned with sensationalism and the bottom line than actually informing our citizens accurately.
     
  20. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    a big part of the middle class struggles of the last 5 years has to do with the burst of the housing bubble. were some people a little greedy and try to flip houses and make a buck? sure. but the vast majority of people invested in their family home - something that was always thought of as a solid investment, and a big part of the American Dream. but now, through no fault of their own, they are upside down in their mortgage. the house in now a ball and chain. they might have gotten laid off, but they can't move to where the jobs are because they can't sell their house, and they can't afford to stay where they are, because they don't have a job, or don't have a job that pays the mortgage. it's a perfect catch-22 that has impoverished the middle class and ruined their credit scores. and while some might rightly be accused of greed, the real parties responsible for the greed are the bankers - the 1%ers who created the derivatives and default swaps who created the sub-prime crisis and lead to the current economic woes of the country. more than anyone else, it's the bankers and their greed who are responsible for the decline of the middle class.
     
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  21. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “Every nation has the government it deserves.” Joseph de Maistre
     
  22. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    This is ITN and Guardian territory here. First, no one mentioned anything about the poor. My post was about the middle class overextending itself.

    Secondly, total up what I presented for a family of four. It gets pretty pricey over a month. Add in a mortgage, utilities and insurance and you can see where 60K a year pre tax does not go far.

    Guilty about actually having something? If something is a car you can't afford, technology you can't afford and eating habits you can't afford then I guess people will always be broke.

    Pizza man how did you jump from what I wrote to making poor people guilty?
     
  23. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^^^^^^
    This to the infinite power

    You don't have to have read "What's The Matter With Kansas?" to know how the middle class screwed itself by voting Republican and worshiping the CEOs who moved their jobs to China (although that would help).
     
  24. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The decline started well before then. Even in the go-go '90s, the middle class was falling behind due to right wing economics designed to beggar them. Dubya's reign of error and the unethical practices at all levels of the housing/mortgage market were simply the coup de grace.
     
  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Certain people will always live beyond their means. I guess shaming them will make others feel like their living "properly."

    But a meme I've heard from Fox News assholes since the Great Bush Recession began goes - "How bad can things be? People still have cell phones and flat screens. Neil Cavuto still sees people packing into his favorite restaurant in Greenwich." As JohnR & bigredfutbol said, unless you're living in a homeless shelter or tarpaper shack, good technology has become so cheap that you're going to have a tv and phone which might be a landline or cell. Sure, you could do without it and I guarantee there's been a lot of people who have given up cable and cell phones in the last 4 years.
     

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