News: Cosmos to NASL

Discussion in 'New York City FC' started by PCFC, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    They use that as a bargianing chip in negotiating thei rinterest in the new ownership group for MLS expansion and/or use it to drive down the total expansion fee they would have to pay for value added to MLS.

    Guys, the money issues are so far above most people'sheads here its better to just ignore them and let the billionares and millionares work out who owes who what and how much. Bottom line is they are going to try and establsih as much value in a NY Cosmos brand and soccer club as possible in the short term and infastructre so when the time comes (if it comes at all as stadium in Queens is no sure thing) to make a bid they will be the best positioned they can fiscally and for hooking on additional partners and investors.

    The rest is white noise.
     
  2. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    The expansion fee isn't the issue. The issue is and always has been an unwillingness for investors to buy in and get stuck in an epic 15 year struggleto get a soccer stadium completed in the area. The league lost millions the first part of the MLS lifeline due to stadium control issues, the last thing they want is another owner to buy into the structure then be behind the 8 in terms of revenues and covering costs.

    MLS is using their weight at the BoG level (collection of ultra rich guys) to try and secure a stadium, similar to what AEG did for the Metrostars just prior to Red Bull buying in. Once that happens they will start a bidding process. SO the COsmos knwo this and will try and rebuild their brand in NASL in the meantime until the time is right to palce bids and talk turkey with other investors.


    MLS isnt in "talks" with anyone. When the time comes to bid on NYC2 expansion the Cosmos will be in that discussion and their weight in that discussion may depend in large part on what the do in NASL these next couple years.
     
  3. LamarCardSoccer

    Apr 15, 2012
    College Station
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The USOC debate also shows some lack of knowledge by posters here. There are very few MLS teams that play starting line ups in the first game of USOC action. Most but not all MLS sides use the game to get their reserve players some experience. The Dynamo lost to the NASL Scorpions this year but they also didn't play the first squad it was a few regular subs and then reserve team guys, they still dominated the possession the whole game and lost the game on a PK 1-0. There is a very noticable difference in a MLS 1st team and a NASL or USL first team.

    As the MLS re expands the reserve league schedule we might see the teams finally take the USOC seriously. Right now it makes sense for most teams to treat it as another game on the reserve schedule.
     
  4. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Jul 17, 2012
    As a Cosmos supporter I don't want the Cosmos in MLS. I think the NASL is perfect for the clubs business plan. Not sure how other Cosmos fans feel about it.
     
  5. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I saw many "fans" in comments sections of ESPN, but have yet to meet a single person who actually believes that. For me, it's MLS or bust.
     
  6. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Jul 17, 2012
    i'll take your word for it. Espn comments section is a cesspool. Especially with all the anti-soccer trolls.

    most people I've talked to do not want to play in MLS. In the NASL the Cosmos feel more like a club. The club can buy the players they want, sell the players they want, have total control of their brand and of their player contracts. There's a potential for a media deal as well.

    Also, it's just much better for soccer in America to have a team like the Cosmos in the NASL. It has the potential to build the NASL up into a strong league. If the NASL keeps losing teams to MLS it will never build up.

    If the MLS franchise fee wasn't 100 mill or whatever outrageous sum i think the Cosmos would probably consider MLS. But lets just say it ends up being 100 mill. They would have to go into big time debt just to pay the franchise fee . Then there is the stadium that would cost $. The chances of breaking even in the next 30 years would be very difficult. Plus they would lose total control of their brand, they would lose the opportunity to own their player contracts and pursue the players they wanted to. They wouldn't get all the $$ from selling players etc. All of this to play in a D1 league where they will likely never make a profit. There is a big opportunity cost in joining MLS

    Instead they are saying, lets put those millions into our own team. Those millions we would have used for an MLS franchise fee could go towards building a SSS, developing players in an academy, fielding a quality team,establishing the brand etc. And they are probably thinking that if in 10 or 15 years if NASL has grown into a solid league that is on par with MLS that there may be some kind of promotion/relegation agreement anyway.
     
  7. citysoccer83

    citysoccer83 Member

    Jan 28, 2011
    10-15 years in a d2 league with 8 teams? What do you think their losses will be over that period? Maybe around 100 million. I respect your opinion but I think you, along with many others, are off your rocker. This play is nothing more than step 1 of many to getting into MLS. Maybe this will give them more bargaining chips and they will be able to change some of MLS rules as far as owning the cosmos name and transfer fees and salary caps, but it's nothing more. Yes, the mls and the ussf wants a good D2 league, but don't think for 1 sec that the collective BOG in the mls couldn't swat the nasl (even with the cosmos) away like flies. The owners in the MLS are not just soccer owners they are some of the most powerful people in the US. With political ties at every corner of the US. I don't care how deep the pockets of the Cosmos are, if the mls doesn't want them with a stadium, they won't get one. If they don't want them with a US tv deal they won't get one. I could go on and on but there is no need because the Cosmos don't want to do this, their end game is to be in MLS, period. And as for promotion/relegation, the ONLY way that happens in the US is through a single entity structure. If MLS owns D2,D3 etc then and only then will that idea be entertained.
     
    Unak78 repped this.
  8. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    To be fair, they will be the 9th team and Ottawa will make it 10 the year after.
     
  9. citysoccer83

    citysoccer83 Member

    Jan 28, 2011
    Haha. Touché.
     
  10. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reminder: the 100 million dollar fee includes the work MLS is doing to secure a stadium in NYC. That stadium work probably costs 30-50 million. Therefore, the entrance fee would be around 50 million, considering the package.

    I'm telling you this. There is no way the NASL can directly compete against MLS. If they want force a merger, that's another story. The SSS infrastructure that MLS has puts them in their own league.
     
  11. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I don't necessarily agree with your assessment. Who says that MLS will never change their structure? SUM was created out of necessity for the league's survival. It's served them well to grow it to where it's at now. But none of us can say for certain that someday the economics of the game change to the point that they "outgrow" the SUM structure. I think some form of revenue sharing will always exist in MLS, just like it exists in some fashion in MLB and the NFL. None of us knows what the future holds. I'm not going to say I think the Cosmos is the catalyst for change in the league structure. I think it'll take significant growth on a much broader spectrum, for a good number of teams, not just one, to ever get that ball rolling, if it ever does. Someday though, if the Cosmos, Red Bulls, Galaxy, and Sounders all were to get together and say, look, the current system is really constraining our growth, there is potential for far more for us, whose to say they may not try to do something about changing things? I think that's a far more likely scenario than saying it would be just one team with grandiose ideas for change.
     
  12. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    30-50? I would imagine it costing a lot, lot more than that.
     
  13. CosmosV

    CosmosV Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    Who !
     
  14. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Then they'll go to MLS. Look, like I said before, the Cosmos aren't going to be a Super anything playing in America's D2. They're just not. It will never happen. Even if they wanted to burn every last dime Sela has trying to be a super team in D2, it wouldn't work. Stars aren't going to come play for them. No one is going to be interested in broadcasting their games to the world. This is all posturing, promotion, and gamesmanship. Even if the structure of MLS never changes, they're still FAR better off owning a portion of SUM that contains the Cosmos brand, then they are owning it outright in American D2. Once in MLS you think the league isn't going to go out of its way to use the Cosmos brand to every possible advantage? You don't think they'll be salivating and falling all over themselves to see the attendance and tv ratings for a Cosmos/Red Bulls match up? How about the Cosmos visiting Seattle?

    Look, everybody wins with the Cosmos in MLS. O'Brien is doing this the right way, and as Nick alluded to up there, I don't think it's a stretch at all to believe MLS quietly gave its blessing for them to go the route of establishing a more tangible rebirth of the brand with an actual team playing sanctioned games in the NASL while the stadium situation is being worked on. Come 2016 (or whenever that stadium in Flushing Park is ready) I will be beyond shocked not to see the Cosmos opening their inaugural MLS season in that brand spanking new stadium against the Red Bulls.
     
    Unak78 repped this.
  15. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Then you must be relatively young. Anyone old enough to have actually seen the Cosmos play, and remember the hey day of the original NASL would most likely, like me, disagree. At least currently. Not to say the Galaxy couldn't have overtaken them some day. But if the Cosmos return is successful, there's no way anyone is going to supplant them for a long time, if ever.
     
  16. Red Card

    Red Card Member+

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cosmos v Galaxy for the Universe Cup prime time on espn.
     
  17. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's NOT including the construction of the stadium. The team will likely finance that. The cost of finding a site, doing the legal work, figuring out the logistics of the land, etc. They've been looking for 2 years (officially). How much do you think that is in wages and such?
     
  18. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    They already work on adapting the structure a little at a time. And the catalysts aren't just the teams you listed but also teams like Vancouver, Toronto, and I think KC who pushed for changes in the academy rules. It's always fluid, and I said before that it's easier to make changes from inside MLS. Not wholesale changes, mind you, but a little bit at a time. One thing you're seeing is that the changes usually move in one direction in MLS, towards greater autonomy, whereas you see in the other major N. American leagues it's mostly moving in the other direction. MLS is a work in progress, and the ppl with the patience to work the system slowly will profit in the end. Look at the amount of leverage that AEG weilds in this league. The way that they played the last CBA by coming out hard for the league, while getting the third DP that they wanted on the back end.
     
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  19. LamarCardSoccer

    Apr 15, 2012
    College Station
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cosmos will not be anything with out MLS. Some of you are crazy if you think a D2 club is going to get alot of attention from fans. If the Cosmos join MLS I fully believe they will immediately become one of the better supported clubs in the league, but until then it will be a regional club that most people under 40 that follow MLS will probably know nothing about. I didn't know what the Cosmos were until about 2 years ago.

    As far as who the most recognizable club is? It's definitely the LA Galaxy although the Sounders have a pretty strong following as well.
     
  20. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Jul 17, 2012
    i don't believe this is true. The stadium would be another cost. The 100 million figure was something that was posited by MLS i believe as a possible franchise fee. But it would not include a free stadium attached to it.

    who said NASL will compete with MLS? The Cosmos wan't total control of their brand, media rights, player contracts, and finances. That's why they joined NASL.
     
  21. Cosmo_Kid

    Cosmo_Kid Member

    Jul 17, 2012
    honestly. Until MLS changes its single entity model I don't see the Cosmos wanting to join the league. It's just not worth it.
     
  22. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Read my next post.

    I think people misread what I was saying. MLS is leading the search for the stadium. In all other cases, the city, ownership, other groups lead the way. Since MLS has been doing the work for getting the stadium location (honestly the hardest part of the whole project), it will cost more. That's 2 years of paying lawyers and experts. I even heard they had renderings. That has to be many millions of payments. The $100M fee (if I'm correct) will only apply to NYC, as it would include those costs that they would have to pay otherwise.

    I am in no way saying that the stadium would be free.
     
  23. Cyclonis

    Cyclonis Forza Juve

    Jul 12, 2007
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I hope Cosmos becomes popular enough to force a partial merger between the NASL, letting in 5 teams for a discount price of 200 million or so.

    1. Cosmos
    2. Atlanta Silverbacks
    3. Tampa Bay Rowdies
    4. Carolina Railhawks
    5. Minnesota Stars/San Antonio Scorpions
     
  24. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    I'm not entirely sure that you can pidgeonhole their fanbase in that manner. Look at the young people who flocked to the Timbers when they were in D2. It's not the demographic agewise that will hurt the Cosmos by staying in D2, it's the enthusiasm levels. At it's highest potential, D2 has the ability to attract large amounts of the supporter-type hardcore fanbase, but none of the casuals. MLS has proven able to bring that last group to the picture, and that is what the Cosmos will be losing by staying in D2.

    So I agree with your general opinion, but not that particular statement. It won't be a matter of young and old. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that staying in D2 will actually serve to limit the number of older fans that they'd get by going to MLS.

    You're talking about an ABA/AFL type of situation. You do remember that those leagues were both in existence for about a decade before the NBA and NFL chose to merge with them. So if that's the case, then you're looking at that merger happening around 2020.

    At the moment, the Galaxy are the bigger brand because they're alive and they have Beckham. Particularly in N. America. Not to say that the Cosmos cannot quickly reclaim that spot from them, but I think he's right.
     
    revolution1776 repped this.
  25. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    Frankly, you kiding yourself if you actually believe this.
     

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