you understand this isn't going to happen right? nobody of note is going to come and play in the US 2nd division. nobody of note is going to play at Hofstra U. you're team is going to be made up of US players who are cut from MLS rosters, other unknown foreign players (also not good enough for MLS) and maybe a really old aging star that isn't good enough for MLS but wants to live in NYC and who will take a boatlaod of cash to trot out and under perform. and any gem you find will get snapped up by an MLS team because in the lower divisions nobody signs more than a one or two year contract ... it is just the nature of the beast ... almost every year D2/D3 teams remake most if not all of their rosters. the Cosmos in NASL are not going to win a US Open Cup. and even if by some miracle they did manage to do that they are certainly not going to win the CCL from D2 against the likes of Monterrey and Santos Laguna. even the best lower division teams like Orlando City and Minnesota Stars and San Antonio Scorpions eventually get beat by some MLS team in the US Open Cup ... upsets happen here and there but eventually the MLS teams come thru.
True, but lower league teams have advanced quite far in the past, notably Rochester winning the USOC in 1999, Charleston making the final in 2008 and Rochester did as wll in 1996, Richmond made the semi finals in 2011, Rochester in 2009, Carolina in 2007, Minnesota in 2005, Charleston in 2004 and 1999, and San Fransisco in 1997. So yes, MLS teams enjoy the odds to win in the end, but second division sides have made the final and several semi finals and been quite competitive doing so. Its not unrealistic as a fan to expect NY Cosmos to put together a strong and competitive squad for the NASL level and make a run in the USOC. You are correct that this team isnt going to assemble a moster squad, but with some luck they may be able to sign some overlooked MLS quality and some underrated foreign players with a good manager to pull it together.
and remind me again the last time a non MLS team won the USOC? that would be 1999. and never forget that year by year the MLS teams also get better and take the USOC more and more seriously. the likelihood of a lower division team winning he USOC gets smaller and smaller with each passing year. but they say hope springs eternal so i guess you should feel free to dream of your D2 Cosmos lifting the USOC trophy broadcast live to a worldwide audience of 10M on CosmosTV.
The reality is that an MLS franchise is not worth $100 Million. I don't care if the stadium is included. In order to get into MLS, Cosmos would have to give up the brand to MLS, lose a hell of a lot of money (how long before they make that all back?) and in return get a 25k seat stadium and standard MLS team that they would barely have any control over. That's a lot to give up for a league that gets a .8 tv rating for its championship game. O'Brien said that he wants to build the team up to one day become a Real Madrid or Man United. Will they be able to do that in NASL? I wouldn't bet on it, but it's a definite No in MLS. Of course, this can all very likely be a bluff in attempt to get MLS to lower the franchise fee or loosen up some of the restrictions. I'm supporting the team either way.
Even if they're initially successful, the only piece of the fanbase that D2 teams have ever proven successful in consolidating are the hardcore/supporter-type fans. Many of these fans will drop the Cosmos if they fail to get into MLS bc they will blame the owners for the name failing to get into MLS. The Cosmos won't be able to hold a fanbase hostage from D2. And while I think MLS may very well drop it's price, considering the fact that DC United sold for 50 mil playing at RFK with not stadium plan in place, there's no way that a NY-based franchise with a brand new stadium being built on the league's dime in the heart of NYC drops more than 10-20 mil. It's not coming close to 50 or 60 million.
Care to take that up with Forbes? They valued the Galaxy at 100 million 4 years ago. Now 100 may end up being too high a number for an expansion MLS side, even in the heart of NYC, but it's definitely worth considerably more than 50 mil, which is what DC United sold for according to Forbes without a stadium or even a plan in place. I'd say anywhere from 80 to 90 million is a good price unless MLS wants to devalue thier teams and they don't want to do that.
He did, but he also read the statements that O'Brien made when he first signed the NASL deal. O'Brien also was quoted as saying that he was still interested in getting into MLS. He's playing both sides of the argument and this is his way of making it sound like price wasn't an issue. They don't want to be seen as being cheapskates. Everything that he's just said are the grounds that he's using to stall in the media. I'm convinced that he's posturing for a price change and he's hoping that other potential investors see the price as too high. If that's the case, he may know something. He may know that other groups are balking at the price as well, just not in as public a manner as he just did. He's leveraging the prestige of the Cosmos name against MLS' stance regarding the 100 mil price tag, as well as hedging his bets that no other groups will be willing to step forward and bid this high an amount. MLS mentions other groups, but no members of the media have been able to sus them out. By this time we'd have at least had rumors of them by now, so I would bet that if they do exist already, they're needing convincing too. This is why Garber is already talking up grouping the bids. No one group wants to invest that much and they know it. But they cannot drop the price too much or they'll lose alot of the progress that they've made on increasing the values of the individual teams, no to mention, that the BOG will want to be compensated for investing in building a NYC stadium. 100 mil won't even cover the entire amount but it helps to increase the value of their own teams for an expansion side to go for that price.
This type of statement shows that there are Cosmos fans that think exactly like O'Brien. MLS franchise in New York not worth $100 mil? I beg to differ, As state D.C. was just valued at $50 mil with no stadium and LA has already been apraised for that value YEARS AGO. But forget those numbers, the TV contract will be renewed with ESPN and NBCSN in 2014. The ratings have continued to improve just this year. When the new TV deal is signed, especially with a second team in NY the league will have more cash and exposure in hand easily increasing the value of each team. Do you think that NY is paying the price of the franchise's value on say day 1 of joining the league? No, they would be paying that knowing that the TV money is going to continue to grow as well as money collected from sponsorships and other sources for the foreseeable future. Also other than Salary Cap how do teams not have control over their destiny. Teams can pursue Development Academys, Local TV Deals (LA just signed one for $50 mil) DP's, Shirt/Stadium/Club Sponsors. Clubs even keep 2/3 of their transfer fees now. Really the only thing that you can't control is the salary of certain players. But if you start a top notch academy Academy players don't count towards the cap neither do young DP's and then of course DP salaries over 350k are not counted. So the Cosmos could have quite a great squad in MLS by the time the join, especially if they invest in a top notch academy and young DP's. (also the Salary Cap will have increased insubstantially after the new CBA in 2014 The MLS will one day be the top league in North America, you can count on that, it will happen with or without the Cosmos. Just because your a EuroSnob fanboy who doesn't respect or watch MLS doesn't mean this league has nothing to offer. Nor does it mean that this league isn't growing in popularity, viewership, fans, respect nation/worldwide.
I already stated the last winner in the post you quoted, perhaps you should take time to read things before responding. The point is lower league sides have performed well and advanced deep into the compotition, setting a goal of matching that, and perhaps making the final isn't this wild pipe dream...its happened in the past and not unrealistic to think a NASL side could accomplish this feat. You are also discounting as MLS has been getting better, so has the rest of the domestic soccer scene, i would say that the opposite is true, in fact of you look at lower league performance in the USOC over the past 6 years you will see overall their record has been better. Not sure why you think people are dreaming of a 10M world wide audience in the USOC, sounds to me like you are just projecting your own prejudices of what fans of this new NASL side are truly expecting.
MLS provides owners with a ton of security, there is a reason mega billionaires are invested in this. Its a solid economic platform. The 100M expansion fee is very high, but so is the reward for letting MLS do all the work getting a stadium and getting it hand delivered to you in Queens. You also get ownership interest in SUM and other ventures. Sure MLS gets to own the brand, but good luck ever maximizing that brand in a fledgiling second division league with no avenue to top flight in USA. The comments by Seamus are directed to why they are in NALS NOW instead of investing in MLS NOW. They rae right that investing all that money in MLS right now is follish until a stadium solution is met. I also beleive fully that they want to partner with another group in an expansion bid and no one else is jumping in right now until that stadium issue is resolved. So COsmos will be in NASL where they can do things unobstructed to build thei rbrand the way they want and in a couple years when MLS is ready to expans in NYC..COsmos will be positioned well (if run well) to be at the table to transfer the brand and get a stake in the ownership group of the new MLS franchise. It seems clear as day to me, not sure why others are fixated on the peripherals.
Galaxy are worth that because they are team that already exists. They have a somewhat recognizable brand, history, local tv deal and a fan base. NY2 has no name, no team, no tv deal and no fans. NY2 could eventually be worth $100m, but it's a pretty big gamble imo. I would also like to see how much Galaxy are worth without Beckham, Donovan and Keane
OleGunnar, you need to step away from whatever it is that's got you so enraged, and really read Unak's post carefully. This. He's presenting a far more logical theory about the situation than you are. The Cosmos are never becoming a super anything in D2. This whole NY2 thing has been a game being played on all sides by many people for quite awhile now. Starting last Thursday the Cosmos just decided to take a part of their gameplan into the public eye. I'd say so far it's working well for them. But anyone that's reading too much into every single word being said right now is getting too far ahead of themselves. Of course they want to be in MLS eventually. That one is a big DUH! It's all posturing, gamesmanship, and positioning right now. Just sit back and enjoy. Once the stadium is getting built, the games will spin some more. But in the end my money is on the Cosmos starting play in MLS, probably 2015 or 2016, with this group being at least part of the ownership. In the meantime, enjoy Unak's avatar (the best one on BS LOL) and you might even look into a certain metal band I think he likes, unless I've missed the mark on that quote you've got there Unak.
You do, Smoke, but I am realistic enough to understand that this can burn them. I do think that MLS isn't as willing to write them off as quickly as they did with Montreal, bc they always knew that they could just go back to Saputo after he finished licking his wounds. I think that MLS is genuinely interested in the Cosmos brand as any sane businessman would be. They won't bend over backwards for it, and I've never intimated this at all, but they will give them enough rope to hang themselves with. I think that MLS is content to let them see what it's like to manage a D2 team and try to compete at a confederational level. They'll let them find out for themselves how willing players will be to sign with a second division team over an MLS team and how much they'll have to overpay in order to get them. And then they'll wait to see if they're ready to come back to the bargaining table with a better offer. The caveat in all of this is whether or not MLS actually has any other groups putting forward better offers. If there was anyone right now willing to put 100 mil down at this time, they would have already come out and said that the Sela-owned Cosmos were eliminated and made it official. They're playing their cards to and keeping them close to the vest, but you can do a blind read on what cards they're holding at the moment. If this was poker we'd still be waiting for the turn card and that won't come until the stadium deal is set. The river card's not coming for another year at least, I'd bet. I'd say maybe next summer we'll know all the players assuming a deal get's done before next season begins. Now if MLS comes out in the near future and says that they're no longer talking to the Cosmos, then you'll know that the turn card just came up and they already are sitting on a flush and don't even need to see the river. Sorry for all the poker terms but reading this situation is alot like watching a game of No-Limit Hold 'em. The asking price is like the pot only when the Cosmos bet it goes down and when MLS bets it goes up. What they say and what they don't say shows alot of what they're currently counting on to happen. This is a huge risk that the Cosmos are taking, but MLS' asking price may be giving them a bit of room if they're not the only ones who are looking to pay less.
I understand O'Brien is posturing, but that doesn't mean he needs to insult all existing MLS fans. Read this thread again, read the article again. The people here, the Cosmos fans I am seeing, are more concerned with trying to be a Man U. or a Real. Wake up. The MLS is always going to be a league of parity which is far better than a league without parity. A Man U. or Real can only exist when there is no parity. I would take the MLS set up over the La Liga set up any day. La Liga there are only a few teams that ever win their title. In MLS everyone has a shot because of the salary cap. When the salary cap gets high enough we will compete for better players and the league will be even better. I already enjoy MLS, if you guys don't just keep following the Euro leagues.
Dude, "insulting all existing MLS fans"?? Give me a f'ing break. He just pointed out why MLS and their structure right now is not as advantagous as NASL for doing what they want to do. Fans and executives in MLS have critisized the business model in MLS over the years too, hell Alexi Lalas got fiend over it once IIRC. These guys want to be in MLS in the future, all he is doing in the interview is talking up the NASL as a great model for them right now, they need to have good PR with NASL.
We are arguing about something that is being stated on Day 1. Of course he is going to talk up the NASL - the Cosmos are there to 1) help themselves build a team and the brand and 2) help increase awareness of the second division. Like Smartypants said - the league is building the stadium and they would rather spend the money in NASL right now than in MLS without a stadium option. MLS is calling a lot of the shots here, and I do think that includes the Cosmos stint in NASL. We all need to wait to see how it pans out. In a year or two, this guys tone could change. At least now, we are going to have soccer to watch
Does the 50 million also include stock in SUM, because SUM is valued very high, didn't a capital investment firm pay 250 million for 1/4 of SUM, so having a peace of 3/4 SUM may be worth a good 10-25 Million on its own.
O'Brien/Sela is in a great position, yet at the same time it has a problem. They paid good money for that Cosmos brand name. Money big enough to dissuade many who came before them. Are they going to just hand that over to MLS? It 's the most recognizable brand name in american soccer. Can they continue to maintain it's value outside MLS? Or do they have to hand it over to really see it mean something? Tough little riddle It sounds like they wanna see how big they can get in NASL and then re-evaluate things. If things go sorta blah, they'll probably fall in line. But if things go REALLY well outside MLS (open cup - champions league - obscene merchandising profit - global tv) what happens then?
I hope that next NYC team in MLS will not be the Cosmos : these guys seem to think only to the brand......
I could personally care less if it's the Cosmos or another NY team. If the Cosmos stay in the NASL and we get a New York team in the MLS that'll be alright with me. Then I would have two New York teams to root for. Just have to make sure the Cosmos don't stay in Hofstra and move somewhere into the city.
I genuinely believe that the LA Galaxy are the most recognizable American Soccer team and not the Cosmos
At the moment, that is the case. But the Cosmos are the name with the most potential of anything that isn't currently part of MLS.