News: Cosmos to NASL

Discussion in 'New York City FC' started by PCFC, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. MLS1FAN

    MLS1FAN Member+

    May 11, 2004
    Miami Beach,FL
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Grant Wahl:

    On Seamus O'Brien, for his part, is quick to distance himself from Kemsley. "When I say something, it happens, and if it isn't I won't say it," he told me. "We won't say anything we're not going to deliver on, so you're not going to get hyperbole and big, grandiose lunatic statements that might have been the mantra of the past. You're going to get facts and reality."

    MLS commissioner Don Garber also vouched for O'Brien when I spoke to him on Thursday. "I have spent quite a bit of time with Seamus and his partners, and I think they're terrific," Garber said. "[Joining the NASL] shows they're serious about being real, that it's more than a merchandising play. It's about being a club and having a team with players on the ground and trying to develop a fan base."

    * That's just why it's very important for Cosmos fans to support this team no matter where they play their home games for that 2013 NASL season. The MLS will be watching to see how the fan base develops and if it's a strong base of fans, I can't see how Garber could look past the Cosmos for team 20th to MLS. It's simple though, if Cosmos fans want to see this team in the MLS in the near future, then go out and show your support!
     
  2. modernfootball

    Apr 15, 2011
    New York City
    Club:
    --other--
  3. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes I found the quote interesting too. To me it means that Sela are simply not ready or not willing to pay the MLS expansion fee right now (100 million plus). Unfortunately, the longer they put off a solid bid the more likely it is to get costlier. If Cosmos had wanted to they could have made the expansion slot theirs by paying it and entered play once the stadium deal got done. I doubt MLS would have said no to immediate money. However, this action on the part of the club means that it is a very real possibility that another NYC ownership group could potentially land the expansion franchise if they are willing to pay the expansion fee on a more immediate basis.
    That of course does not mean that the Cosmos could not come in later.
     
  4. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Honestly - and pure speculation

    I dont think Obrien wants to run the football club - i think he just wants to be the money man. Nothing wrong with that but I think MLS is calling the shots here.

    NASL has called on MLS to support the second tier before - David Downs said he would love the Cosmos on the way to MLS bid and MLS is working on the stadium...which is going to be a few years to be ready - so I really think MLS is behind this whole thing (which is why the day the Cosmos went to the NASL, Garber was quick to tell the world that they are happy about it and the Cosmos are still in the running for expansion).

    I think Obrien wants other investors and NASL is a way to attract those investors to the brand
     
  5. EL YANQUI

    EL YANQUI Red Card

    Jun 3, 2011
    ACEVEDO DIAZ Y CHANA
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Nat'l Team:
    Uruguay
    If selsa think they can survive being a second division team they might as well pack up and throw in the towel now....... I dont think thats the case I think every one here knows this project is MLS bound.... You have to be a crazy arab if you think MLS is not worth it.....they have nothing to lose and the time now to build from the bottom up now is good that way it wont be started from scratch once in MLS.... ticket staff marketing and all that will already be in place when cosmos jump to MLS...its a good system... I dont believe selsa and obrien wouldjust linger in a half ass league like NASl...

    Cosmos has to much history to just become some semi pro team
     
  6. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't get how you get this interpretation from that quote, given everything else he said in the article. What I got from it was that he'd rather have spent the money on putting a club and players on the ground instead of other things *cough*exploiting-the-name-for-a-clothing-line*cough*
     
    QueensNick repped this.
  7. Smoke & Mirrors

    Jul 18, 2010
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    While I respect your passion for the Cosmos and wanting them to become an MLS team, you go a bit far in your characterization of the NASL. There are a lot of people, employees of the league, the clubs, and a whole lot of fans who have spent a lot of time and money of the last year and a half to try and stabilize the mess that has been D2 in this country for a long time. Part of the challenge in doing it is snobbish, arrogant attitudes like yours that the NASL is a "half-ass league" or that our teams are "semi pro." 99.9% of us have no aspirations or illusions of "competing" with MLS. (We'll leave WSW out of this...) We only want our teams and our league to grow and stabilize at the D2 level of the soccer pyramid.

    No one honestly thinks the end game of the Cosmos is D2. If someone does they should seek a head examination. As one of the groups wanting to secure the 20th MLS expansion slot, they decided their plan of action was to get their organization up and running, and field a team, with their historic brand in hand, at the D2 level while they wait for MLS to build the NY2 stadium. If the Cosmos do things right, they should be well ahead of the pack when it comes time for the owners of NY2 to be selected. If they're able to re-establish the Cosmos brand on a big enough scale, it makes it very difficult for MLS to bypass the Cosmos name, and fully functioning operation.

    Everyone wins in this scenario. The Cosmos get their foundation built, and have a much more meanginful way to rebirth the brand than some old stars being interviewed and trying to sell some jerseys for a team that doesn't even exist. They show Garber and the league they are serious, unlike Kemsley. At the same time, the addition of the Cosmos with a solid ownership group helps continue the growth of the NASL. Even if it's only for two or three years, the impact of the Cosmos joining the NASL is going to be growth for the fanbase, more media coverage, and hopefully leads to more investment by others in the league. And unless they're planning to try and go buy some present day superstars for their roster, they're not going to spend $100 million running a team in D2 for three years. Don't know why he floated that number, but it can't be simply to operate an NASL team. If they're spending that much money, a lot of it must be going toward building an infrastructure that will be ready for MLS in a few years.

    Maybe next time try and get a little perspective before posting idiotic statements about other people's league and teams.
     
  8. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "We evaluated the NASL opportunity alongside the MLS opportunity and came to the conclusion that it was the better fit for the business we are in today," he explains, referring to Major League Soccer's restrictive single-entity structure, salary cap, central contract system and revenue share. "Simply put, in NASL we have the freedom to do whatever we need to in a way we would not have in MLS. Our goal is to own our own brand, media rights and player contracts."
    That the MLS opportunity also came with a rumored $100 million price tag was also a factor. "We realized we would be better off as owners by investing that $100 million capital in our own brand and owning it."

    http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/st...sl-new-york-cosmos-ready-launch-roger-bennett

    Are they even trying to get into MLS?
     
  9. AmeriSnob

    AmeriSnob Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Queens
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, that tears my theory in half. I hadn't read that other part of the quote anywhere else.

    Everything else he has said is indicative of an eventual move to MLS though, so maybe they intend to build the brand up in NASL and then move up? Maybe they'll try to lobby Garber into loosening up the rules in MLS (hopefully Garber stands up to that, though) or lowering the expansion fee.

    What worries me is that the very very low possibility that they definitely don't have MLS ambitions. Then NYC2 would end up in another owner's hands (which wouldn't be so bad, but these owners would be the best choice out there right now for NYC2). But everything else he said implies an eventual move to MLS, such as "when we get to the top -- and we will get to the top."
     
  10. EL YANQUI

    EL YANQUI Red Card

    Jun 3, 2011
    ACEVEDO DIAZ Y CHANA
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    Nat'l Team:
    Uruguay
    If they choose not to go MLS bound the cosmos might as well dig their own grave again a NY expansion with stadium to boot in flushing meadows will put an end to the cosmos... they wont even be looked at by the masses they would have to survive with Long island folks at best.... But I dont think thats what will happen....

    looking foward to a boriqua road trip
     
  11. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is the chance that they are not thinking MLS right now but we shall see. Personally - Long term NASL in Hofstra will not be successful. LONG TERM - Short term will work with goals of getting into the city at the top level. NY is a major league sports town..fans will pass on D2 soccer for one of the other 10 Professional sports teams in the area.

    He also could just be blowing up the reputation of the NASL because of this. Helping attract other investors to the NASL.

    http://www.soccernewsday.com/usa/a/90/bigshot-q-a-nasl-commissioner-david-downs
    This was prior to the season

    Can you describe the relationship between the MLS and NASL? What would you like to see improved or changed between the two leagues in the future?
    DOWNS:

    We have an extremely cordial and cooperative (yet unofficial) relationship with MLS, with counterparts from the two league’s staffs in frequent communication. We also interact at the team level, especially involving player movement. Ideally, we’d like to see greater participation from MLS, on an official basis, in the building of an even better second division that would enable even more top North American players to strengthen their game.


    Is the New York Cosmos possibly the strongest brand that came out of the original NASL? Do you foresee the brand coming back to the top tier of American soccer?
    DOWNS:

    Quite possibly, and we would welcome their participation in our league as they prepare for success in MLS.


    So there is plenty to speculate on lol
     
  12. LamarCardSoccer

    Apr 15, 2012
    College Station
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe if you're a Cosmos fan. If you're a fan of an existing MLS club you can't help but feel snubbed. I sincerely hope that the Cosmos are not the NY2 team. The ownership of the Cosmos club is extremely arrogant and bent on changing MLS to conform to an "international football model."

    The Saudi ownership wants to come into the MLS and change everything good about this league versus the other soccer leagues around the world. The MLS has the best parity of any Soccer league I know of. Every single club's fans know that a championship is possible, you don't have that in a unregulated league like the EPL. I would hate to be a fan in another league where I'm sure every year that only a hand full of the richest teams can afford to compete for the title.

    No one saw San Jose as a supporters shield contender but here they are. This league is exciting and I don't like foreign investors who think their team is more important than the league.

    The 50 most valuable sports franchises list was released recently. There were several Soccer clubs in the top 10. But you know what is amazing about that list? ALL 32 NFL teams made the list. That's because of the revenue sharing. Revenue sharing is a good idea, it gives every team hope, it improves the level of competition because a blow out is almost impossible in a league where every one spends the same amount. (it still happens but not nearly as often as it does in wide-open leagues)

    MLS could one day be a top league and if it keeps the salary restrictions in place it would be the most balanced league in the world making it extremely fun for the fans.
     
  13. pichichi2010

    pichichi2010 Member+

    Oct 24, 2010
    In your nets
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reading this, another idea pops into my head. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking.

    How about the possibility that Cosmos wants to secure its own media rights contracts, and other things, before joining MLS. Isn't MLS a LLC made up of individual corporations/partnerships/others? In that scenario what each corporation secures individually belongs wholly to it, before becoming part of the LLC? And, after joining the LLC, those same rights would be collectively bargained/shared?

    Just something that occurred to me when thinking about MLS structure. On another note, if other owners in MLS share some of these thoughts, I don't believe it will be too long before MLS restructures its business model...perhaps after a new COB in 2014??
     
  14. PCFC

    PCFC Member

    May 13, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Newry City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In short, you're making false statements. 1) No one here is anti-MLS. 2) The old arrogant Cosmos group is out. 3) The article is about Cosmos joining NASL, not MLS. 4) MLS wants a second team in NYC.
     
  15. modernfootball

    Apr 15, 2011
    New York City
    Club:
    --other--
    A second division super club. Things might get interesting here.
     
  16. CosmosV

    CosmosV Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    This what Soccer in America needs to be able to progess. MLS is not being challenged or pushed to make strides or changes in there development, there just proding along. If the NY Cosmos can make them blink a bit and have a strong product on and off the field then that might just help MLS change there thinking process a bit and hopefully help it mature into a top league in the world, rather then a stop gap for retring players who could care less about the development of young american players.
     
  17. fifty7

    fifty7 Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Long Island
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not enjoying the absurd things some people are saying on Facebook, in article comments sections, etc. The suggestion that the Cosmos will be a driving force behind an NASL challenge to MLS is as foolish as it is arrogant. We must proceed with humility and face reality: Right now we're a minor league team that wants to get into MLS. No stadium of our own, no super club BS, no revolution, nothing delusional. The single entity structure is the only thing keeping American soccer from regressing, and these "reform McSoccer" folks are just plain dumb.
     
    Ed NYC Firm, QueensNick and PCFC repped this.
  18. Mr.Smartypants

    Mr.Smartypants Red Card

    Jul 1, 2010
    Club:
    University College Dublin
    I wouldnt worry about what people are saying on facebook or outside the local area. Fact is people need to realize that the team is being formed for the purpose of enhancing the brand and the attarctoveness to partner investors if and when the bidding for expansion in MLS comes.

    It would be foolish to invest in MLS now with no other partners and no stadium solution, and people lets be real here. COsmos biddign for expansion right now simply isnt an option with MLS anyway, they are focused on using the collective financial might of the BoG to hammer through a stadium in queens then seek the new expansion side.

    Cosmsos come to NASL and are a very recognizabel brand, which helps NASL short term and why they probably dont mind that the the team has MLS ambisions under a rising tides and all boats theory. They will be modest in running the team I assure you, and look to compeet not dominate as anyone who has follwed US pro soccer since 1995 can tell you its a pretty level playign field at the lower levels.

    Best case scenario is the fans get behind the NASL and help demonstrate that the team is a vaible and attractive comodity for MLS and NASL, the team builds a decent fanbase list and sets up its front office staff to go through the growing pains in NASL and works to invest in infastructure like academy and development so they will be well positioned to make the jump to MLS if and when that happens.

    In the meantime fans looking to support something at the grassroots level and build somethign meaningful as an alternative to the Red Bull albatros have an option.

    So lets all just chill on the white noise and PR releases for now and focus on getting facts lined up and plans laid for 2013. It will come faster than you think.
     
    Smoke & Mirrors, QueensNick and Unak78 repped this.
  19. LamarCardSoccer

    Apr 15, 2012
    College Station
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I am?

    1. Did I say anyone here was anti MLS? I did not say that. I outlined why MLS's idea of revenue sharing and salary-cap are good things. I didn't say anyone was anti-MLS

    2. The old arrogant Cosmos group is out? Who? I'm talking about the spokesman in this article being arrogant. Has he been removed from his job?

    3. I understand what the article is about. But anyone paying attention knows that this ownership group has ambitions of joining the MLS. How else are they going to become "North America's top Soccer Club?"

    4. I understand that is what the MLS wants. I want it too. Any reasonable fan of the MLS has to see that NY2 is good for MLS. And I understand the demand is there. My comments were directed at this spokesman and how he cam off as VERY arrogant and disrespectful towards MLS.

    Those who think MLS's business model is holding the league back must not realize that the league is still losing money and the current model is the only way a league in a marginally popular sport like soccer is going to survive. (I understand Soccer is popular, it is not very popular in the U.S. though, watch ESPN if you don't believe me )

    I don't want a team coming in and trying to force things like abolishing of the salary cap or promotion/relegation. Both of those things will not work in America. ( Geography, demography and economics are limiting factors) I'm not saying that is what the spokesman said. BUT, he his statements insinuate that the current MLS structure is an impediment to their plans.
     
  20. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    You're deluding yourself if you thinkt that Cosmos are actually going to do this. All they're doing is trying to leverage a better deal with MLS or drive up the price for a sale. Whatever O'brien may be saying now, in the end, Sela has a bottom line. And that bottom line includes not blowing money trying to be a global brand in a D2 league that doesn't have a television deal and playing out of Hofstra Stadium. It's just not going to happen. They're bluffing. Pure and simple. This is the exact same type of stuff that Joey Saputo used to say and where is he now? In MLS.

    They're making a gamble, but they may know things that we do not. For example, how do we know that other groups aren't also balking on the 100 mil price tag. MLS came down from 40 mil with Vancouver and Portland but were able to leverage more out of Montreal since they'd taken all of their biggest rivals out of their league.

    In this case MLS will be locked into the NY market if they come to an agreement on the stadium site. So the Cosmos would then only be bidding against other NY area investors. Now that may seem to be a tall order, but there's been more businessmen willing to invest in smaller markets than NY bc there's no lack of investment opportunity in NYC. But unlike the Impact, if they swing and miss now there will be no chances at a NY3 in the future. Saputo could afford to take the risk since there's only one player in the MTL market. All he ended up losing was 2 years and 10 million dollars. The Cosmos could lose their entire future.

    So there could be a bit of a method to their madness but it's just a guess. I do think that they feel that they have time, at the moment, to play this game out.
     
  21. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    i used to be in favour of any NYC2 team being the "Cosmos" ... why waste a good if a bit old brand. better to start with a known name than an unknown one.

    but having read the recent article and O'Brien comments it is clear he thinks that The Cosmos are too big for MLS ... he want's no part of it. he want's no part of the single entity and rules and parity and he wants no part of becoming part of a league collective. and he seems to be saying that he won't pay the $100M.

    so i wish the cosmos luck in d2 and their quest to become a "global brand" with their own CosmosTV showing those great games versus the PR Islanders and FC Edmonton and with their tours against Real Madrid. and he called the previous ownership hyperbolic.

    Cosmos fans ... in MLS you guys could build on the old brand and become a new force up there with LA Galaxy and Seattle Sounders (with the right and competent ownership). without MLS the Cosmos brand will end up being nothing and be finally relegated to the dustbin of history. if i were a Cosmos fan i'd be pissed and worried at the stuff this O'Brien guy is spouting.

    Don Garber and the other MLS owners have a long memory and being insulted by a team that hasn't been a team for 30 years and is nothing more than a glorified lifestyle brand and now a D2 team is going to stick in their craw for a long time.

    it will be nice to see MLS's NYC2 team open their new Queens stadium in 2015 and put the D2 Cosmos and their pathetic Hofstra playing "global brand" assess back on the scrap heap.
     
  22. QueensNick

    QueensNick Member

    Jul 19, 2007
    New York City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I kind of agree with all of this. I really dont think NASL is a long term solution for the COsmos - if its a stop gap - im totally fine with it but D2 in Long Island is not sustainable long term.

    All quotes from Obrien and garber seem to imply that the Cosmos are still interested in MLS so at this time i cant stress to much about it but I think you very well could be right.
     
  23. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

    Dec 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    did you read the same article? O'Brien clearly states he had no interest in MLS and its rules and single entity and 100M entry fee. all of the Garber quotes about Cosmos and NASL were BEFORE this new O'Brien article

    none of that sounds like they are "still interested in MLS" ... they don't want to put the Cosmos brand into the collective of MLS's single entity as every other team does .... when you join MLS you go from being 1oo% owner of your team and brand to 1/20th owner of MLS (which encompasses MLS and every team/brand in the league). it is also pretty clear that he thinks the Cosmos are above such things as roster regulations and salary caps and other nonsense parity rules. he also clearly thinks that collective media rights are to be scoffed at because obviously who wants that when you can have CosmosTV.

    basically wanting to own their "own brand, media rights and player contracts" is directly incompatible with MLS ... you cannot have those things in single entity MLS and MLS isn't going to ditch single entity. they may tweak some rules at the internal pressure of some ownership groups (increase salary cap, loosen foreign player restrictions, etc) but the core principles of single entity are collective ownership (brands/teams), centralized player contracts (even if it is just formal record keeping and legal purposes) and collective national and international media rights ... those things are never going to change ... not for some outsider entity like the Cosmos that thinks they are Zeus' gift to NA soccer and that everybody should bow and scrape and overturn everything they've built in the last 16 years to accommodate the awesomeness that is them.

    the guy is a delusion douchebag and these comments have either pretty much put the last nail in the Cosmos in MLS coffin and thus the last nail in the Cosmos existing at all coffin or he is going to have to do some serious backtracking and ass-kissing and begging of forgiveness somewhere down the line.
     
  24. CosmosV

    CosmosV Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    Club:
    --other--
    So what if this Cosmos team plays it big and gets some players and dominates the NASL and even pulls out a US open Cup or 2. What then ? The fan base will grow, money will be made and they will own piece of the Fan base Garber needs for his 20th team in NY. Hello leverage for 100 million he is asking for. So it may be a gamble but if it costs you 50 or 60 million instead of 100 million then that's a gamble you take! Cosmos group has nothing to lose at all, especially after the last fiasco that occured there is only one way to go and that is up.
     

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