Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller had set (themselves) a high standard. So in WC74 despite of the win, Cruijff overshadowed them both! Muller was in TOP10 (#7) of ballon Dor 1974 was NOT as bad as one think!
yes müller must be happy he was ranked 7th......he has played only in worldcup 1974...and his clubperformances and sucess 1974 was a fata morgana..thanks for your opinion...wondering if you did read what i wrote..
Yes I did, and I learned quite a bit of Muller's stats from your post ... thanks I should have rep you on some posts like that Muller (and Puskas) were both "genius" in the sense they DEFIED the science - for their physical build as an athlete - bulky , short ... YET they were all GREAT in jumping and header quite impressive - their legs were rather short but they could run and shoot with a lot of power! Good footballers with good athletics build shall be trained hard to become great (like CR7, Henry, Sheva, Raul ...) but no players could train to be like Puskas and Muller! They were born to be great footballers and their type would not come as often in many decades (or ever?)
Not sure if Muller should be labeled a genius, he was, in fact, more like CR7, Henry, etc...a top talent with great fitness, but not someone with a mystical aura like a Maradona, Baggio, Hagi, etc.
you didnt mention a single word of gerd müllers clubimpact 1974...not one single word.. a player where won the eurochampionscup,topscorer,great game in final...bundesligachampion,topscorer inclusive ,scoring the 1:0 keygoal in week 32..and the magdeburg games,played injured and out of position in magdeburg scoring 4 of munichs 5 goals in both games and no passenger in german cup games as well.. and finally without the miserable offside call against him in the final müller i think is voted top 3 in balon dor 1974...iam very optimistic about that..and nobody should have talked 2006 ronaldo has surpassed gerd müller in the wc alltime topscorer ranking.. ..but the 7th ranking balon dor 1974 was unfair ..... not a honor( you pointed out).......gerd müller 1974 wasnt crap in worldcup,not a great start in the first round groupstages but in the later stages games a keyplayer....
gerd müller didnt like the spotlight....seriously a player has a auro or not but that dosent take away what he did for his teams , the sucess..... recently jupp kapellmann a former teammate of gerd müller pointed out in a interview..gerd müller was a gift of god , more worth than beckenbauer....he didnt say he was a better player than beckenbauer but this confirm a bit the value of this player in some aspects.....
That is not what I said. You posed the hypothetical question: 'What if Cruijff 1969-1974 was ignored in the Ballon d'Or???' I replied: it was ignored in 1972, which was club-wise his best year. No other club season was as succesful as that one and he ended fourth. Why? Because a) Germans are good in manipulating the vote and b) because in the same year euro72 was played. I know that Germans feel that Netzer is underrated in history because he had no significant part in a World Cup team and did not win the European Cup - but he did shine in euro72 and was rewarded for that. What did Netzer achieve outside of euro72 in 1972? Championship? Domestic cup? European Cup? Did he club-wise anything better as Lato in 1974? No! But it was not necessary too, he shined in the euro tournament. Something similar happened in 1974. It was a World Cup year. Lato played extremely well in that World Cup and many, even in Holland, thought that he played just as good as Cruijff (here you have your answer). Lato was deservedly ranked ahead of Müller in that year, unlike Breitner and Neeskens. And you suggested that Lato was a 'one-hit wonder'. That is wrong. He was two times topscorer and in 1974 he ended second behind someone who only played 15 minutes in WC1974, in the bronze medal match (Kapka). He also did his job in Europe; he scored a goal in the lost tie against Red Star Belgrade. And how strong was Stal Mielic anyway? Well, three of the twenty-two players of the Polish 1974 squad were from Stal Mielic: Lato, Kasperczak and Domarski. All others were from other clubs. Comparison: seven players of the twenty-two in the Germany squad came from Bayern Munich. That signals that Stal Mielic was in their own country not very dominant - and from that perspective, if you score 1 goal in 2 matches against Belgrade, then you did your job. That is my view.
Read my post again .. I said "in the sense ... of his physical build" - In other words, Muller might not have the dribbling skills of Ronaldo9, the ball control of Zidane or the dictation of game rythm/attacking scheme of Cruijff ... but he was a "genius" of his own = score many goals, and many important goals to win games for the team - A GOD GIFTED "natural born killer" in front of goals! He might be upthere with Pele in term of efficiency in goals/chances
Question: how many of Müller his goals are assisted by Beckenbauer? If you only know this partially then it is OK.
Having read only the first couple of pages (considering there are 800+ posts!), forgive me if this as been mentioned... In the past, we know about great players not only because they played great, but because the media showed us their greatness. They didn't have much time for premadonas because their time was limited. Now, and I would argue that 2006 is a good point, the "old" media doesn't have as much influnce on the fame of a player. There are fanboy sites that popup all over the place. For a while, Donovan was as good as anybody in Europe. In La Liga, there are, appearantly, only 2 players. Two of the biggest names in the media in England are Terry and Bertolli. Both are quite talented, but both are also media darlings that sell papers. And that there are other, more serious papers that focus on serious issues, the tabloid, blogs, etc. can focus on players that act foolish. Thus, while we are in the current era, it can be labeled weak since the best players are not always in the papers. IMO, when we look back, there will be consideration for players like Drogba, Xavi, Lampard, Gerrard, Pirlo, Eto'o, Puyol will be mentioned about the best ever. Already, some players are mentioned, like Henry, Iniesta, and, of course, Messi and CR7 get mentioned. Also, I think players like Rooney need only a couple of magical seasons and a showing at the WC. I think Modric also has that potential, if he moves to RM. Another thing that seems to be considered is that there is an absolute top level of play. Yet somehow players seems to rise above that level. What we are now seeing is players from across the globe rise to this great level. Training, fitness, nutrition have improved across the globe which allows more players to become better. It is not that players are not as good, just that there are move of them. So it takes time for us to recognize those that are great. To reflect back and consider the real impact. It will be considering players like Torres or Gomez.
Don't know what you're talking about here. Torres and Gomez are both mediocre, similar in level to a Hermosillo or Carnevale of the past.
That is part of the point. Torres is said to "be magical." Gomez pops in goals for club, but neither have yet done anything that we consider spectacular. Yet both have that potential. Lets say that Gomez stays in the Bundesliga for the next 5 years scoring 20/season. That would make him that would make him the 3rd all-time leading scorer in the Bundesliga. Would he be a great even if he performs in the CL like he did versus Chelsea? That is a reflective question. But the "media" want us to believe it now, not later.
true words are never said ... Media did make (some to think) t he players, competitions now aday look BETTER than they are to be (carefully) rated. Torres was a great potential 6years back, and he did not improve ever since but thanks to the media and Spain NT status that made him more valuable (vs his goals/game and effectiveness in big games ) Gomesz was just a good striker IN GOOD FORM (taht's all and that's it) he won;t get any better nor will last long ...
The game is easier to score goals in now the lack of top class defenders is dying no young player wants to be the next Maldini anymore even in Italy and there's a over emphasis on the big stars like Messi and Ronaldo just because they score the most goals.
We should enjoy this era while it lasts. The next era is shaping -up to be similar, except minus Messi, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. At least I don't see any current 18-22 year old reaching the level of these 3.
Well, this era is missing great defensive players: no Maldinis, Hierros, Redondos, Brehmes, etc. on the horizon, which tends to inflate the accomplishments of the current stars. If Brazil is lacking a great left fullback, the world is lacking one.
Well yes and no ... It's just hard to foresee anyone will emerge as cool as Messi (at Barca) and effective as CR7 in this era, at least STATS like (i don;t think so) - I would not include Ronaldinho in same era (his best form was clipped in 06 and declined quickly by 07-08 where Messi and CR7 started kicking into best form ... on other hand Hazard is developping good at Chelsea, Gotze is back in actions and the world is still waiting on Neymar to play in big leagues! (Lucas, Hulk are other with very good potentials as well ...) Plus, Falcao Aguero Iniesta ... will have potential to blossom in higher expose ... There is a double fortune in this era: weak in defense quality individually combined with free throwing money to buy best players into same team just made all the stats look more complex or beyond logic sense
Most of the players you mentioned are older than Messi. They're part of this era, not the next one. Also guys like Hazard and Gotze do not have Messi/Ronaldo potential. Only Balotelli and Neymar do, and even that is a stretch since they are both already behind where Messi was at the same age (although they might be even with CRonaldo).
Yes I mean same era ... and Iniesta might be a bad example (some how I always thought he is younger for being tiny guy) But who knows next WC14 would very well be a starting point for newer era? We'll see Look at both Ronaldinho, Kaka, they both were in peak form entering WC06 and quickly declined after 1,2 years 08-09
Just a note to BocaFan Please do not mention Balotelli next to Neymar ... too much different The only things Balotelli are better is " taller, stronger, hit the ball harder " THAT"S ALL and IT
I'd probably agree with that. Also it wasn't only Messi and C.Ronaldo people were foaming at the mouth over, when they came through. You had Rooney, Robben, Iniesta, Tevez and Robinho among others who people were salivating over. 2003-2005 (ish) was an extraordinary time for blue chip prospects.