should teams be allowed to sell dp slots back to MLS for a higher salary cap

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by chris5854, Jun 14, 2012.

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should mls allow teams to sell back dp slots for a higher salary cap

  1. yes

    22.2%
  2. no

    77.8%
  1. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DP slots can only be truly utilized by teams in nyc and la because superstars only want to play there, many just wont go to the smaller cities, teams like in Kansas city can get good players but really no one worth 5 million like Beckham and Henry because of this should teams be allowed to sell back their dp slots for say 750,000 added to their salary cap, I dont like the way the dp slots force teams to put the majority of their money into a few superstars, I think its common sense that spending the same amount of money more equally over the entire team to get players of roughly the same ability would yield better results for the same money, but i also appreciate that dps are needed to bring attention to the league and put butts in seats, however it seems that only la or nyc can attract those kind of players so why burden the other teams with the slots if they can never use them to the same potential that la and nyc can, allowing teams to sell them back would also allow a greater level of parity i think that a team that spends 6 million dollars somewhat evenly among the team would be at the same level as a team that spends 15 million but 80% of that is in 3 players, its great because it would increase the level of play and allow smaller market teams to be equals with the big teams and would allow major superstars to be in the league
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anyone making more than $350k can be made a DP. The Sounders have three and the highest paid is Fredy Montero at ~$900k.
     
  3. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How is what you're proposing different from the status quo?

    Right now, if you don't use one of your DP slots, you have an additional $350,000 (the DP cap hit) to spend on your roster, compared to tems that do use their slots.
     
  4. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand but if you dont use all your dp slots you still (not counting allocation money) only have less than 3 million dollars
     
  5. Achowat

    Achowat Member+

    Mar 21, 2011
    Revere, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, his proposal is "an extra $400k in allocation money for teams that don't use a DP slot, per DP slot".

    I think it's a mistake. DPs aren't just Beckham and Henry. Shalrie Joseph, who will go down as one of the greatest Revs of this era, would likely have moved on to another team if he wasn't DP'd. The fact that (more or less) every team has used or is using a DP slot means good things for the future of the League. It means that we really don't have any absentee owners. Owners are spending more of their own money than they have to, and that's a good thing
     
  6. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right. So what you're actually proposing is identical, in practice, to:

    1. Raising the salary cap by $1.35 million, and
    2. Raising the minimum DP cap hit to $750,000.

    You're not talking about changing the system; you're talking about changing the numbers under the current system.

    The end result would be, if you hired a DP that was paid, say, $500,000, he would actually cost you $750,000. Therefore, teams would be less likely to sign players like Alvaro, Saborio, and Fernandez, because as players earning under $750k they'd hurt the team's ability to compete.
     
  7. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    I believe his proposal is actually raising cap by 2.25 mil and cap hit to 350+750 = 1.1 mil.

    Indeed, it would clearly discourage from signing any DPs who are worth under a million/year.
    And I think it's very likely to prevent teams from signing some of the bigger names too.

    I don't think there are parity issues, anyway. The current system seems to work, smaller teams are able to compete. If you tweak it towards non-DP teams, are you increasing parity or reducing it?
    If your 3 DPs take up ~65% of your cap, keeping them most likely hurts you. At some point, even paying Donovan millions stops making sense.
     
  8. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Other than the Rapids (unless you count trading theirs to DC for a year for Christian Gomez.
     
  9. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    let me claify the current salary cap is around 3 million if you use 3 dps above the age of 23 than you have 2 million left for the remaining 17 players and unlimited funds for the first 3, im saying that teams should be able to sell back dp slots for 750,000 added to their salary cap so teams could have 3 dps with no cap on spending and 2 million on the remaining 17 players or they could have $5,250,000 to spend as they want on all their 20 players, they could also do any combo of dp slots and salary cap like 1 dp and 4.5 million for the remaining 19 players etc..., i think teams in ny and la need big stars to attract crowds but i think teams in smaller markets just need a quality team with good play and i think you get a lot more bang for your buck when you spend your money roughly evenly amoung your players getting players of roughly the same ability to play off of each other
     
  10. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and im fine with different numbers like dp slots being sold for 1 million or 500,000 the specific numbers arn't important what i would appreciate feedback on is the idea
     
  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And our point is that it is stupid. :)
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  12. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And my feedback is that the idea is just another way of describing the current rules under which the league is operating.

    Right now, the MLS salary budget is $2.81 million, and up to three DPs count for $350k against the cap.

    This is mathematically the same as having a $1.76 million salary cap with the ability to "sell back" each unused DP slot to the league for an additional $350,000 in cap space.

    The only difference is that under your system, the teams would get allocation money back instead of the unrestricted salary budget money they currently get. From that perspective, your proposal would actually hurt the non-DP teams, not help them.
     
  13. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    why, im being serious i would like some problems you have with it, maybe the idea could be tweaked but i think giving teams the option to spend evenly among their entire team and rewarding them with a little higher salary cap would create better team units where players build off each other and play a more beautiful game, if you ask any coach or owner and ask them if its a wise investment to put 70-80% of their money in 3 players they will all tell you its a bad idea or at least the money could be better spent on upgrading all the positions on the team including backups
     
  14. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See chapka's response.
     
  15. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i dont see how it could hurt them when its only adding a 2nd option, if it hurts a team they will just stick with the 3 dps
     
  16. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    under the current system if you have 3 dps making around 500,000 you spend 1.5 million on the three dps and have a little less to spend than 2 million to spend on the rest of the team (not counting allocation money) would mean you spend 3.5 million on your team, with my idea you would sell your 3 dps and raise your salary cap to 5.25 million, then you could spend the 500,000 on those 3 dps and still have 3.75 to spend on the rest of the team, this wouldnt hurt teams like seattle which concentrate on creating players and using teamwork instead of bringing in superstars it would actually help them
     
  17. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No..The point is that teams will no longer get DPs like Montero, Saborio, Fernandez, Ferreira, etc. because those players are now eating up $1.1 million in salary cap space. Not every team is using the DP rule to get $5 million DPs. Hell, only 9 out of the 23 DPs are making over $1 million.
     
  18. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if you sell all your dps and have a salary cap of 5.25 million than you can spend 1.1 million on 3 dps and still have 2 million to spend on the rest of the team, teams with dps who earn even less will have even more money to spend on the rest of the team
     
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *sigh* You are aware that there is a max salary of $350k in MLS, right? Your proposal means that any team that signs a player for more than $350k and less than $1.1 million is run by a bunch of idiots because the only way you can fit that player under the $350k salary limit is to use a significant chunk of your allocation money, or to label them a a DP and labeling them a DP instantly eats up $1.1 million of your potential salary cap.

    It also confuses me how you can sell 3 DPs spots and then sign 3 DPs. :)
     
  20. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ok thanks thats an actual problem with the idea i wasn't aware that if your not a dp you cant be payed more than 350,000 i dont understand the purpose of that rule and would get rid of it for teams selling dp slots, also i used dps to avoid confusion they wouldnt technically be dps but it would be the same 3 players.
     
  21. Goforthekill

    Goforthekill Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The point of the DP is to allow a higher salary cap. they can just keep their DP spots and have a higher cap.
     
  22. chungachanga

    chungachanga Member

    Dec 12, 2011
    i assume you mean 1 dp and 4.15m, judging by your other numbers.

    Look, you are using "sell" and "selling" a lot, but in its core, you are proposing a cap raise. You propose that everyone spends more. Would it be nice? Sure. But since you don't say where to get that money...

    The only real system change is that you propose to boost DP cap hold by 750k, which means it would become 20+% (1.1m) of 5.25m cap for each DP, instead of the current ~12.5% (350k) of 2.81m.
    But you can do the same without raising extra money.
    So maybe the question should be "what if the cap stays at 2.81m, but DP cap holds go up from 350k (12.5%) to 600k (20%+), is that good?".

    IMO, it's not. I don't see this big parity problem that you are trying to solve.
     
  23. Goforthekill

    Goforthekill Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Minnesota
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about MLS makes DP spots tradeable and they can pick up allocation money in a trade. The Galaxy or Redbulls would easily give a player and $500,000-1,000,000 for an extra DP spot along with a player perhaps.
     
  24. chris5854

    chris5854 New Member

    May 20, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the point is to allow a higher salary cap but ny and la are the only ones who can utilize it to the greatest degree because thats where superstars want to live, giving them an advantage other smaller market teams cant get, im all for raising the cap but also allowing small market teams to sell back their dps would allow small market teams a chance to level the playing field
     
  25. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're missing the point.

    The ONLY DIFFERENCE between your proposed system and the current system in place is that in your proposed system, instead of the money teams get from "selling" (ie, not using) their DP slots coming in the form of unrestricted cap money, your proposal would give teams allocation money instead, which can only be used to sign a limited subset of players.

    In other words: if a team today doesn't use its DP slots, it has more money to spend under the cap. If a team in your system "sells" its DP slots, it has more money to spend under the cap. What's the difference, other than that you also want to raise the salary cap?
     

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